I'm sorry, I... I just don't like ARM... :(

[Dodgey]

Why do we have to deal with the parts the way they are? Why are we not allowed to fix a problem that we can see. Why is it that the parts are perfect the way they are now?

Awsumindyman, you say that like the same people are changing their minds about it. Also have you ever heard of over doing it. If I say i want a bigger engine and I get an engine that is 500 ft across am I not aloud to go, that is too big, can you make one that is about half the size of it?

Edited April 4, 2014 by Dodgey

[Kinglet]

I agree the new stuff is OP. And it does not match stock visually. Looks more like KW.

[Wahgineer]

Why do we have to deal with the parts the way they are? Why are we not allowed to fix a problem that we can see. Why is it that the parts are perfect the way they are now?

Because the problem we see is no their. Imagine:

You, being anit-SLS parts, sends up a totally 2.5m asteroid redirect mission. You arrive, dock to the asteroid, then begin to slow it into an orbit around kerbin. Yet, as you do so, you realize that the periapsis marker is barely moving. You exhaust all of your fuel, but are still on an escape trajectory. The problem? the engines you used are too weak and too inefficient, and the tanks too small.

[The Space]

The solution of just don't use it is just a variation of just ignore the problem and it will go away. Why shouldn't I try to fix a problem that I see, doesn't fixing it make more sense then just ignoring it?

What exactly was the problem? Developers have their reasons to make the new engines powerful.

Back in 0.16 when mainsail was added people thought it would be op and look what happened: now everybody happily uses mainsails in their lifters. In my opinion it makes sense to add new parts that are more powerful than the older ones especially if it costs more/takes more time to unlock and use these new parts. It also gives you a sense of accomplishment to unlock a part that's better than some of the older parts in the career mode.

I don't think the new engines are overpowered. You unlock them later than most of the other engines and their cost is much higher. They are only useful for lifting stuff into orbit but there are much better engines to use in vacuum so it's not like they make other engines obsolete.

As for the asteroids by not tracking them you can completely forget about them because then they won't hit Kerbin or destroy your space stations.

[Dodgey]

Here is where Silly_Chris crunched the numbers and showed that compared to the other engines in the game the new ones are really unbalanced. That is the main gripe with the new engines. Edited April 4, 2014 by Dodgey

[Justin Kerbice]

It's quite sad to see some people acting with something which could be described as arrogance and/or selfishness by almost insulting Naten, I'm not fond of the new release too and I just don't play with it and I assume it.

Too bad for me maybe, I still have to use crazy big rockets to lift a few tons into space and chewing-gum rockets, I have no super ION engines and no rocks bothering me in Kerbin's orbit.

[Red Iron Crown]

Dodgey, I don't think that's the link you meant to post. This is the one you're referring to, I think.

[Dodgey]

Alright fixed, thanks for picking up on that.

[spectrhz]

I find this kind of funny:

We ask, over and over, for newer, bigger, better parts.

We get said parts, and all you guy do is complain.

We ask for multi-engine clusters combined into one part.

We get said part, and all you do is complain about it.

We ask for the ion engine to get a thrust boost, we get it, and all you do is complain about it being OP.

We ask for joint reinforcement to reduce the amount of struts we use, for bigger parts to reduce part counts.

We get stronger joints, and you say it's over done.

We get bigger parts, and all you say is that they're op.

Harvester himself said that these parts were designed with idea that by the time you unlock them, the payload is more important than the rocket. That is, you'd much rather spend more time doing stuff in space rather than spending ages building a rocket to lift it.

+1 impossible to please anyone it seems...

[The Space]

Here is where Silly_Chris crunched the numbers and showed that compared to the other engines in the game the new ones are really unbalanced. That is the main gripe with the new engines.

Your link seems to be broken.

I don't think the developers intended every part to be completely balanced and exactly as good as every other part. It still takes skill to get your space station into orbit using the new parts. The new parts just offer a way to get your station into orbit using less parts in the lifter.

In most of the games i have played you unlock better items once you progress in the game. That's exactly what's the case here: once you have collected enough science (and probably money in later versions) you gain access to parts that are better at a specific task than some older parts.

Being a little bit more powerful than other parts or "unbalanced" and being overpowered are two different things.

The developers are making this game based on their vision how it should be. If you disagree with them on some of the game's mechanics or features that doesn't automatically mean those mechanics or features are problems that should be fixed.

[jalapen0]

It is pretty easy to delete the NASA folder. I'd think that would fix you guys right up?

[Creature]

I think they're mostly unbalanced because we don't have any really heavy parts to lift. If there were habitation/science modules or ground bases weighing in the 10-50 ton range per module, things would be quite different. If all you're lifting is a 10 tons of living space and some engines + 190 tons of fuel tanks to LKO, it does seem a bit OP.

[Stormweaver]

I find this kind of funny:

We ask, over and over, for newer, bigger, better parts.

We get said parts, and all you guy do is complain.

We ask for multi-engine clusters combined into one part.

We get said part, and all you do is complain about it.

We ask for the ion engine to get a thrust boost, we get it, and all you do is complain about it being OP.

We ask for joint reinforcement to reduce the amount of struts we use, for bigger parts to reduce part counts.

We get stronger joints, and you say it's over done.

We get bigger parts, and all you say is that they're op.

Harvester himself said that these parts were designed with idea that by the time you unlock them, the payload is more important than the rocket. That is, you'd much rather spend more time doing stuff in space rather than spending ages building a rocket to lift it.

I know, right? The KSP fanbase hive-mind seems to have a split personality or something.

A lot of the problems people have with the parts being OP probably come from the fact that, with the parts we currently have (hell, the parts you have around T4 in the stock tech tree) are enough to get you anywhere, except off the face of eve. If we had harder things to do, bigger payloads to lift, planets further away with horrific gravity and atmosphere and the like, then the parts would be great for making doing those things reasonable. But right now? You can unlock these parts half an hour into the game. And by then, you're looking for silly things to do to stay entertained, or installing mods.

I have less problems with the update than some, but I kinda feel the joint strength buff is a tad silly.

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[ScottyDoesKnow]

It's easier if you know what you're doing. New players generally DON'T. I certainly didn't. My first rocket to reach orbit needed about 18 small SRBs just to get a ship with a 1-man pod up there, because I didn't know that going too fast too low was bad.

No I mean literally easier, as in it requires less delta V. We're just talking about engine efficiency here. Yes, in general the parts in KSP are less efficient than their real life counterparts, but that's because it requires less delta V to get into orbit around Kerbin.

[jimutt]

I find this kind of funny:

We ask, over and over, for newer, bigger, better parts.

We get said parts, and all you guy do is complain.

.............................

Harvester himself said that these parts were designed with idea that by the time you unlock them, the payload is more important than the rocket. That is, you'd much rather spend more time doing stuff in space rather than spending ages building a rocket to lift it.

I really agree with you. Personally I really like the new joint strength. Can't understand why someone would want to need tons of vertical struts for keeping fueltanks from breaking and wobbling about...

I haven't played the new update for very long yet and I do believe that there might be some balance issues with some features. But overall I think it's a really nice update which continues to improve this already awesome game

[SkyRender]

Didn't the devs specifically discuss recently that they wanted to take advantage of the fact that the tech tree allows them to make parts which don't balance with the existing ones? Unless they want to implement across-the-board upgrades like "10% reduced weight of parts" as seen in early tech tree prototype screenshots, it only makes sense that more efficient and genuinely better parts will eventually make their way into the game.

[Jarin]

I find this kind of funny:

We ask, over and over, for newer, bigger, better parts.

We get said parts, and all you guy do is complain.

We ask for multi-engine clusters combined into one part.

We get said part, and all you do is complain about it.

We ask for the ion engine to get a thrust boost, we get it, and all you do is complain about it being OP.

We ask for joint reinforcement to reduce the amount of struts we use, for bigger parts to reduce part counts.

We get stronger joints, and you say it's over done.

We get bigger parts, and all you say is that they're op.

Harvester himself said that these parts were designed with idea that by the time you unlock them, the payload is more important than the rocket. That is, you'd much rather spend more time doing stuff in space rather than spending ages building a rocket to lift it.

+1 impossible to please anyone it seems...

You mean impossible to please EVERYONE. I seriously doubt very many individual people were making all those contradictory complaints.

[ScottyDoesKnow]

I have less problems with the update than some, but I kinda feel the joint strength buff is a tad silly.

http://imgur.com/a/kX6kI

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Rastaman]

The new parts allow me to build linearly capable rockets with elegant lines, with maybe two boosters thinner than the core. Not this tiring asparagus stuff with six of 12 same sized boosters and tedious staging and sepatron schemes. It is much more plausible now.

I almost never used the mainsail anyway, multiple smaller engines are better. It also needs an optical and functional redesign. Make it smaller with 1000kN and use it for upper stages singular or in pairs.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Rastaman

[LethalDose]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but IMO criticisms about balance at this point in the game's development aren't really valid. Any work to balance the parts now is going to be invalidated when currently unreleased features are added later.

[urbansys]

So now because you don't have to use part clipping to lift amazingly heavy loads, its no fun?

I disagree as i feel it is more realistic now.

[mellojoe]

The main complaint I'm hearing is that the booster+engine combo is unfun. I think I'll just delete it out of the parts folder, myself. Then game becomes perfect.

[FlowerChild]

I have less problems with the update than some, but I kinda feel the joint strength buff is a tad silly.

Lol...nice one dude. Appears I'm not the only rocket-tricking master out there

Although, I think you would have gotten more points had you had had boosters strapped to the ends of the arms to send our friend into a nice spin mid-flight.

Edited April 4, 2014 by FlowerChild

[Joonatan1998]

I like the update, but I don't really like the infinite science from asteroids.

At least they should make them have their own page in the science archives, and not just go to the kerbin page. (I think that the page depends on where you take the samples)

[Giggleplex777]

I've had my rocket explode on the pad before, many because I attached big tanks to a 0.625m part.

That got me thinking- since some joints are weaker than others, is it possible to make a mod that weakens joints?