Fly a plane using only capsule torque and thrust vectoring!

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

This challenge is to fly a plane without using control surfaces, monopropellant, or any of those fancy SAS reaction wheels.:cool:Note: Take pictures of the craft in the SPH, on the runway, while flying, and while completing any awards.

Rules:

1. You must fly your plane using only capsule torque and thrust vectoring.

2. Your plane must take off from the runway.

3. Your plane must have at least 2 static wings, but no control surfaces.

4. Mods are allowed, but no modded capsules.

5. Engine types allowed: Rocket, Jet, Nuclear, and Ion.

6. No RCS.

7. No reaction wheels other than in your capsule.

8. To get points, your craft must leave the runway and travel at least 1 km.

9. The debug console is not allowed.

10. Your plane must be able to take off like a plane.

Awards:

Success: Take off and fly at least 1 km. +100 Points

Lander: Land your plane on the KSC runway.**** +50 Points

High Flyer: Fly above 20 km.* +90 Points plus 1 more for each km over 20 up to 70.

Islander: Fly to the Insular Runway.**** +70 Points

Magellan: Why turn west to land when you can just go east? (I.E. Circumnavigation)* +100 Points

Easter Bunny: Fly and land at an easter egg.**** +150 Points

Whackjob: Use over 100 parts.** +200 Points

Conservationist: Use under 15 parts. +50 Points

SSTO: Create a single-stage spaceplane.*** +150 Points

VTOL: Create a (functional) VTOL that can also take off and land horizontally.(No Parachutes!) +250 Points

*Players eligible for SSTO are ineligible for these.

**Scientific parts and struts not included.

***Players eligible for this are ineligible for Magellan or High Flyer

****Botched landings are half-credit.

My Attempt:

As you can see, there is no gimbaling on this plane. Big mistake.

On the runway.

This is why thrust vectoring is allowed.

My second try went slightly better. Taken moments before a terrible crash.

Leaderboards:

1. Darren9- 1153 pts.

1.*Aqua*- 570 pts.

2. Keldaria- 440 pts.

3. Brandano- 320 pts.

4. Godefroi- 297 pts.

5. ABalaz/Keptin- 220 pts.

6. Me- 100 pts

7.

Edited April 11, 2014 by PoliticallyCorrectLobster
Leaderboard

[Fengist]

I need help. Serious psychological help. Someone please explain to me why I love obliterating poorly worded challenges.

Please... I need medication, therapy, past life regression... something, please help.

My score

Success +100

Over 50 parts +200

VTOL +250 (it does take off vertically)

High Flyer +90+3,808,892-20,000

God, I needed a calculator for this..

SCORE: 3,789,532

And yes, I followed all your rules to the letter. Didn't even turn SAS on.

In the hangar

Takeoff

Wings Jettisoned

And... proof of altitude

I'm sure others could do better. I had tons of fuel left, I just decided that I'd proved a point and no need to go... crazy?

Oh, and I'll check back periodically. If you've re-ruled this challenge, I've already completed a good bit of it with a 'normal' stock VTOL and I'll replace this post.

And what's with those TINY cropped pictures? I can't tell what anything is.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Fengist

[Darren9]

I need help. Serious psychological help. Someone please explain to me why I love obliterating poorly worded challenges.

Please... I need medication, therapy, past life regression... something, please help.

My score

Success +100

Over 50 parts +200

VTOL +250 (it does take off vertically)

High Flyer +90+3,808,892-20,000

God, I needed a calculator for this..

SCORE: 3,789,532

And yes, I followed all your rules to the letter. Didn't even turn SAS on.

In the hangar

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/OrbitTOL6.png

Takeoff

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/OrbitTOL1.png

Wings Jettisoned

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/OrbitTOL2.png

And... proof of altitude

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/OrbitTOL5.png

I'm sure others could do better. I had tons of fuel left, I just decided that I'd proved a point and no need to go... crazy?

Oh, and I'll check back periodically. If you've re-ruled this challenge, I've already completed a good bit of it with a 'normal' stock VTOL and I'll replace this post.

And what's with those TINY cropped pictures? I can't tell what anything is.

You're "obliterating" this challenge? By entering a fin stabilized rocket and claiming it's still a plane even after you've decoupled the lower stage and stabilizers? You have to make a "plane", it can be an SSTO or a VTOL? That's clearly what's meant.

If you want to ignore the "spirit" of a challenge and attempt "obliteration" by technicalities wouldn't you at least need to demonstrate a forward wing lifted flight to have a "plane". And how exactly does decoupling stages and all "wings" fit into the definition of a "plane"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-wing_aircraft

One of the poorer attempts at "obliteration" IMO. Still equally as pointless though.

[samiamthelaw]

You're "obliterating" this challenge? By entering a fin stabilized rocket and claiming it's still a plane even after you've decoupled the lower stage and stabilizers? You have to make a "plane", it can be an SSTO or a VTOL? That's clearly what's meant.

If you want to ignore the "spirit" of a challenge and attempt "obliteration" by technicalities wouldn't you at least need to demonstrate a forward wing lifted flight to have a "plane". And how exactly does decoupling stages and all "wings" fit into the definition of a "plane"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-wing_aircraft

One of the poorer attempts at "obliteration" IMO. Still equally as pointless though.

I think the core of his "criticism" is that your point system encourages people to build a rocket and put it on an escape trajectory.

[Greenfire32]

I think the core of his "criticism" is that your point system encourages people to build a rocket and put it on an escape trajectory.

Regardless of what the point system encourages, the official qualifying factor is:

"This challenge is to fly a plane"

Therefore, one would correctly assume that since the vehicle needs to be a plane to be counted, said vehicle would need to land and take-off via the proper use of the runway (putting a rocket on the runway is not proper use). Obvious exception being the VTOL (but that STILL doesn't make rockets acceptable).

It would also make the point system way more challenging. Yes, it is super easy to win this with a rocket, but the challenge is to do it with a plane. That's the point of these challenges: to be challenging.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Greenfire32

[sal_vager]

Ahem...

No one likes a wiseguy!

Challenges work on an honor system, we can't check if you are cheating and even if you don't "cheat", if you deliberately misinterpret the rules of a challenge or its spirit in order to gain an advantage, you'll spoil the fun for everyone else.

So if a challenge says Fly a Plane, it means Fly a Plane, not a rocket or other craft, and if everyone else has posted a plane and there's no rockets, assume it's for planes only and ASK the challenge poster if they will consider a rocket entry before entering.

Edited slightly, as some people seem to need everything explicitly explained

Oh and Fengist' entry above is disqualified.

[samiamthelaw]

Regardless of what the point system encourages, the official qualifying factor is:

"This challenge is to fly a plane"

Therefore, one would correctly assume that since the vehicle needs to be a plane to be counted, said vehicle would need to land and take-off via the proper use of the runway (putting a rocket on the runway is not proper use). Obvious exception being the VTOL (but that STILL doesn't make rockets acceptable).

It would also make the point system way more challenging. Yes, it is super easy to win this with a rocket, but the challenge is to do it with a plane. That's the point of these challenges: to be challenging.

What I meant is that the challenge encourages you to build something that takes off as a plane, but which is functionally a rocket. SSTOs, for example, are perfectly permissible; if you have enough fuel left from orbit to push yourself out to the edge of Kerbin's SOI, you'd score something like 80,000 points, with most of that score coming from the "rocket" part of the design. And you'd still be able to re-enter and land without much hassle (not that landing is presently required under the rules). The point is not that the challenge is bad, but that the point system needs tweaking unless the idea really is to see how high people can get a spaceplane to go.

[ABalazs]

One simple entry. I think I will try to make a more complicated craft later, it was a 20 min. solution of the problem.

Success: Take off and fly at least 1 km. +100 Points

Islander: Fly to the Insular Runway. +70 Points

Conservationist: Use under 15 parts. (13 parts actually) +50 Points

Sum: 220 points

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BTW I think you should change the altitude rule, for example 3 points for each km above 20 km until LKO (70 km), or so, and lower SSTO bonus to +100. You should ban multistage designs also.

Edited April 4, 2014 by ABalazs

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

Ok everyone settle down, I tweaked the rules better.

Didn't even turn SAS on.

SAS is allowed, but reaction wheels other than your capsule`s are not.

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

Oh, and congrats ABalazs!

[Rakaydos]

I have an existing design I put togeter for a carear mode file where I only was allowed horizontal takeoff.

It is a horizontal takeoff, munar orbit, capsule landing design. The wings are discarded after the jets flameout. Does this violate the spirit of the contest?

[Blaster]

I made an extremely small plane that does this... it also flings itself into suborbital with its single turbojet. Hmmm....

[Fengist]

Ahem...

No one likes a wiseguy!

Challenges work on an honor system, we can't check if you are cheating and even if you don't "cheat", if you deliberately misinterpret the rules of a challenge or its spirit in order to gain an advantage, you'll spoil the fun for everyone else.

So if a challenge says Fly a Plane, it means Fly a Plane, not a rocket or other craft, and if everyone else has posted a plane and there's no rockets, assume it's for planes only and ASK the challenge poster if they will consider a rocket entry before entering.

Edited slightly, as some people seem to need everything explicitly explained

Oh and Fengist' entry above is disqualified.

I choose this post to respond to the pundits.

Gee whiz. I'm so sorry I spoiled your fun by completing this challenge within the guidelines posted. Disqualified? Are you serious? Do you think I was actually attempting some uber score? Please, don't even think you dented my ego by disqualifying me. Besides, you're not the OP so it's not your decision. And... If the rules are so vague as to allow misinterpretation, how is that the fault of the competitor?

For the rest of you, there's a HUGE difference between plane and vtol. The OP awarded points for vtol. Unfortunately the OP has

since changed the rules to now make it SVTOL which I have no desire to design. Furthermore the original rules allowed atomics. Correct me if I'm mistaken but last I checked atomics are ROCKET engines.

Had he left it vtol, I would have gladly changed my post and submitted my real entry.

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

Had he left it vtol, I would have gladly changed my post and submitted my real entry.

You can still make VTOLS, but they must be able to take off horizontally.

Please, don't even think you dented my ego by disqualifying me.

Please, either let it go or continue it over PMs.

It is a horizontal takeoff, munar orbit, capsule landing design. The wings are discarded after the jets flameout. Does this violate the spirit of the contest?

As long as you are able to land it horizontally on a runway, then it is fine. (Please post proof that it can land horizontally.)

[zarakon]

As long as you are able to land it horizontally on a runway, then it is fine. (Please post proof that it can land horizontally.)

You should update the rules to require landing, probably without parachutes and without separating the capsule

[keptin]

This is one of my favorite types of challenges! I'm going for the biggest-craft award; I pulled this one out of the stable, the Reactor-VI B. The wings are curved in a particular way to use dihedral effect to control banking through yaw input. It's actually pretty easy to fly.

Success: Take off and fly at least 1 km. +100 Points

Lander: Land your plane on the KSC runway. +50 Points

Islander: Fly to the Insular Runway. +70 Points

Magellan: Why turn west to land when you can just go east?* +100 Points

= 320 points.

Album: http://imgur.com/a/HyFhm#0

Craft file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66999462/Reactor-VIB.craft

Took off, landed on the old alt runway island, took off again, and landed back at the KSC runway.

Testing the Reactor-VI C's high altitude capabilities for that high flier achievement. Also shooting for the Wackjob achievement.

Edited April 5, 2014 by keptin

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

If you post proof that you completed Magellan (For example, your craft on the other side of Kerbin, then your craft landing at the runway), I will add you to the leaderboard. For now, I`ve subtracted Magellan from your score.

[Javster]

I thought it was the opposite: use ONLY control surfaces.

[keptin]

If you post proof that you completed Magellan (For example, your craft on the other side of Kerbin, then your craft landing at the runway), I will add you to the leaderboard. For now, I`ve subtracted Magellan from your score.

You should clarify the rules so there's no confusion. "Magellan: Why turn west to land when you can just go east?* +100 Points" In a control challenge, I interpreted that as simply taking off and turning 180 such that you're flying east.

There's no mention of flying east around the world and landing back at the KSC.

[PoliticallyCorrectLobster]

Ok, done.

EDIT: I just realized you made the picture guide to aerodynamics. You are awesome.

Edited April 6, 2014 by PoliticallyCorrectLobster

[keptin]

Sure did! Thanks!

[Keldaria]

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Introducing the Dayra Falcon! a small plane with a big punch. 14 parts (including an emergency parachute) I took off, Flew around the world, Hit a 70k+ height, and safely landed back at KSC

If I'm doing my math right that's

Success: Take off and fly at least 1 km. +100 Points

Lander: Land your plane on the KSC runway. +50 Points

High Flyer: Fly above 70 km. +140 Points

Magellan: Why turn west to land when you can just go east? (I.E. Circumnavigation)* +100 Points

Conservationist: Use under 15 parts. +50 Points

Grand Total: 440 Points

Here is the craft file for anyone interested.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iqv8ovt9ehf5zr3/Dayra%20Falcon.craft

[Darren9]

Would a hang-glider count as plane with no control surfaces? It swings the engine/fuel/pilot mass back/forward and left/right with 2 robotic hinges, also has no pod torque or SAS at all. I could probably do a few challenges with an upgraded version.

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[Brandano]

Do you have to achieve all the goals in one flight?

Here's my entry:

Craft file, 13 parts: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Tszjgnsur4NGJzUVpZRE1GVmc/edit?usp=sharing

Pics:

First flight, taking off at 1/3 throttle, hopping over to the island runway, taking off again in the opposite direction then facing east to attempt a long range flight. Only made it about 1/3rd of the way around the world, but with a better ascent profile probably can make it to one of the poles:

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Second flight, zooming up vertically to high altitude, then diving back to a landing at KSC runway. Notice how the pics at high altitude are with the engine shut down and the plane still climbing...:

(craft file slightly modified to align the fins better to the airflow. This is the version in the .craft file link)

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[Brandano]

I have updated my design with two droptanks, three ram air intakes in place of the single standard intake, and a turbojet engine in place of the standard engine, to try and get the "Magellan" achievement, though losing the low part count. I ended up flying around the world twice, because one of my suborbital hops ended up in an orbit with a 100k apoapsis and a 55k periapsis, even though I only had one air breathing engine. Does that count as an SSTO? I ended up using less than one fuel tank for both loops too.. very hard to fly, almost no pitch response, and landings are a bit "hot", and bouncy. But I managed to land back at KSC, and then to take off again and to hop to the island. And to taxi to the mk1 capsule in the hangar, get off the plane and get Jeb to play the tourist and pose for a picture. I actually didn't put on a ladder, so I had to retract the landing gear, and to get back in with a jetpack assisted hop! Should I post file and pictures?

Edited April 7, 2014 by Brandano