[1.0.4] ScienceAlert 1.8.9: Experiment availability feedback (July 13)

[mathuin]

I launched Bob on a science orbital mission in a polar orbit so he would cover the whole planet.

He was recently encouraged by this plugin to collect data from a Science Jr. widget for the ice caps. He did so, and turned that information in to the command pod for later retrieval, when he was then encouraged to collect additional data of the exact same type for the exact same biome. Bob has been burned by this before, so he refused.

If this plugin were on Github, I'd make an issue and possibly even a pull request to address my core issue (do not recommend that I acquire science if I already have the same science in the command pod) but I don't do the bitbucket thing. What should I do? Thanks!

Jack.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Looks like ScienceAlert may not like Impact. When I start a mission with a spectrometer, the log gets spammed with errors like this one, with some pretty intense lag:

ScienceAlert, Failed to create crewReport ScienceSubject. If you can manage to reproduce this error, let me know.

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

ScienceAlert, Exception was: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

  at ScienceAlert.StorageCache.FindStoredData (System.String subjectid) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ScienceAlert.Experiments.Observers.ExperimentObserver.GetScienceTotal (.ScienceSubject subject, System.Collections.Generic.List`1& data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ScienceAlert.Experiments.Observers.ExperimentObserver.UpdateStatus (ExperimentSituations experimentSituation) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Other errors mention other experiments on the ship, all being remade every frame or so.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce this on my test install (i.e. with ScienceAlert and Impact! alone), and my main install is heavily modified and fairly well-along in my career save, but I suspect that part of the issue is that Impact doesn't work the usual way for experiments -- you have to crash a ship while another vehicle has a science instrument with line of sight (for the spectrometer) or on the same body (for the seismometer). Then you go to that vehicle and pick up the results.

[Vorg]

I have both [X]Science and SA and am noticing that SA misses a number of places. I am liking [x] with it's list display system better, though it is nice to have audio signal and a button to click to grab as some times, the window is very small. I am also noticing that some times SA gives false alerts, when you first put craft on the pad/runway. It will sound and flash, but go away because there wasn't any science to be had.

[xEvilReeperx]

I have both [X]Science and SA and am noticing that SA misses a number of places.

Misses places such as what? A description of the orbit and which report is being missed would be helpful though it's most likely the error ones like getting tundra while in an equatorial orbit.

The biome map blends colors which sometimes tricks the game into picking the wrong biome. The blending between grasslands and shores (or shores and water? I forget exactly which two) will cause certain points on the equator to seem like they're tundra (for example), even though the nearest actual tundra is hundreds or thousands of km away. I suspect [x] is just constantly running and sweeps those up. If this isn't the case, I'd be interested in hearing more

Looks like ScienceAlert may not like Impact. When I start a mission with a spectrometer, the log gets spammed with errors like this one, with some pretty intense lag:

This kind of exception is usually caused by duplicate experimentIDs. What does your full mod list look like? Most of the stock science experiments will be broken when this happens so check them out and we'll be able to tell easily if that's the case

He was recently encouraged by this plugin to collect data from a Science Jr. widget for the ice caps. He did so, and turned that information in to the command pod for later retrieval, when he was then encouraged to collect additional data of the exact same type for the exact same biome. Bob has been burned by this before, so he refused.

What was your filter method set to? If it's sufficiently high, it could very well be that a second report is desirable if you had space to store it. ScienceAlert doesn't currently check whether it's possible to have duplicates, only that you should take a second sample if you can

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

This kind of exception is usually caused by duplicate experimentIDs. What does your full mod list look like? Most of the stock science experiments will be broken when this happens so check them out and we'll be able to tell easily if that's the case.

By duplicates, you mean two defintions of EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION with the same "id = whatever"?

FYI, I haven't reproduced this behavior on a fresh save on the same install, so now I'm super-confused. It does reliably happen on the one save, though, as long as there's something with science attached to an actively-controlled vessel with an Impact part on it.

Here's a screenshot of my GameData folder:

(The opt-custom folder is irrelevant now -- OPT in the folder is just 1.6.9.1, straight from K.Yeon.)

The ones which add science experiments (that I can think of) are:

BoxSat (nothing new, just boxy versions of stock sensors)

DMagic Orbital Science

Impact (whose experiment IDs are ImpactSeismometer and ImpactSpectrometer, no overlap with seismicScan)

KDEX (dust experiment)

Munseeker (ZZZ radio telescope)

N3h3miah's science mods

SCANSat

Solar Science

Starwaster's Probe Science

Station Science

Of these, I've used DMOS, KDEX, some of N3h3miah's stuff, SCANSat, and Probe Science (which applies science to probes, similar to how crew pods get crew reports) without issue. Impact is the only one to cause things to act up so far (with the seismometer as well as the spectrometer).

Edited May 25, 2015 by Kerbas_ad_astra

[Vorg]

Last night I went around KSC hitting the building science and most of the time SA didn't notice.

[xEvilReeperx]

Could you be really specific? As in, "I drove to the VAB with Mystery Goo and science alert missed mysteryGoo@KerbinSrfLandedBlahBlah"? I have a theory on this but I need specifics to confirm it

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Regarding Impact! interaction -- the errors do happen when only Impact and ScienceAlert are installed. I was mistaken because I'd used a probe with a seismometer rather than a crew capsule and a seismometer, and I'd forgotten that without Starwaster's patches, a probe doesn't have any science experiments onboard. However, a capsule does, so a simple capsule plus a seismometer (or spectrometer) gets log spam about failing to create evaReport and crewReport ScienceSubjects. Attaching other experiments adds similar errors about them. Again, the error in question:

ScienceAlert, Failed to create barometerScan [I][or whatever other experiment ID][/I] ScienceSubject. If you can manage to reproduce this error, let me know.
ScienceAlert, Exception was: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ScienceAlert.StorageCache.FindStoredData (System.String subjectid) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ScienceAlert.Experiments.Observers.ExperimentObserver.GetScienceTotal (.ScienceSubject subject, System.Collections.Generic.List`1& data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ScienceAlert.Experiments.Observers.ExperimentObserver.UpdateStatus (ExperimentSituations experimentSituation) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Kerbas_ad_astra

[xEvilReeperx]

Regarding Impact! interaction -- the errors do happen when only Impact and ScienceAlert are installed.

Hi, thanks for the repro steps -- it made this very easy to hunt. There's a oversight in ScienceAlert that resulted in the NullReferenceException you see thanks to the way Impact handles its science container compared to stock. It's fixed in the next version which I'll release tomorrow (I want to fix the EVA-report-on-top option and add the RemoteTech support that was asked for) which are both quick and relatively easy

[Vorg]

Could you be really specific? As in, "I drove to the VAB with Mystery Goo and science alert missed mysteryGoo@KerbinSrfLandedBlahBlah"? I have a theory on this but I need specifics to confirm it

I was using a car of sorts (first tech aircraft gear for wheels), The science, Jr., a thermometer, mystery goo, and pressure sensor and a scientist. drove around to the buildings. [x] was set to show science with the current craft and would show the new science option when I entered the area, but no alert from SA. It did flash once for pressure reading science. But I don't recall which place it did that.

[Frederf]

Love this mod. If we want to get competitive I would keep SA and remove Science! if I had to pick one. In any case, I only have the smallest of quibbles with it. One the checking is too rapid. Going over the smallest bump triggers the alert for airborne. Some sort of delay where it won't produce the alert until the condition has been satisfied for some duration (a second or so) it would really calm down the interface. I doubt anyone would mind such a delay or even notice.

The second is gathering science, especially EVA reports, are still alerted as valid science even after I stuff a copy into the capsule. I totally understand that it is a valid experiment since the data hasn't been turned in yet, but it's going to be. The mod can't know that of course so perhaps a right click temporary dismiss would help? "Don't bother me about this science until I leave and come back"? Sometimes you decide not to do an experiment (EVA while flying, can't reset, etc.) but still want a blank slate to get a fresh alert later.

[UnanimousCoward]

Love this mod. If we want to get competitive I would keep SA and remove Science! if I had to pick one. In any case, I only have the smallest of quibbles with it. One the checking is too rapid. Going over the smallest bump triggers the alert for airborne. Some sort of delay where it won't produce the alert until the condition has been satisfied for some duration (a second or so) it would really calm down the interface. I doubt anyone would mind such a delay or even notice.

The second is gathering science, especially EVA reports, are still alerted as valid science even after I stuff a copy into the capsule. I totally understand that it is a valid experiment since the data hasn't been turned in yet, but it's going to be. The mod can't know that of course so perhaps a right click temporary dismiss would help? "Don't bother me about this science until I leave and come back"? Sometimes you decide not to do an experiment (EVA while flying, can't reset, etc.) but still want a blank slate to get a fresh alert later.

IIRC, there’s a setting in SA to control whether the mod remembers stuff that’s stored in the capsule. You could try enabling that and see if it helps.

[abowl]

Hello, great mod. Its well made and really makes KSP more fun.

I have a request tho. I am starting to use RasterPropMonitor more and more. It seems wrong that you get information from the game via the HUD pop ups. To me it seems like these things should be implemented into IVA instead. Does that make sense?

Would it be possible for ScienceAlert to be compatible with RasterPropMonitor? So that the alert pops up on a screen instead? Thank you

[Monthar]

Here's a save with the biome mismatch bug. The ship is "Lander 2", which is currently landed on the Mun in the Northwest Crater. Science Alert says it's in Midlands.

The mods I'm currently running are Toolbar, Active Texture Management, MechJeb, Contract Filter, Kerbal Alarm Clock, KAS/KIS, Kerbal Engineer, Kerbal Joint Reinforcement, Mission Controller EC, Docking Port Alignment Indicator, Science Alert, Serious Kerbal Business, Stage Recovery, Stock Bug Fixes and Temperature Gauge Killer.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y677xel6mis4u6/Science%20Alert%20Biome%20Bug.sfs?dl=0

[Drake1500]

currently landed on the Mun in the Northwest Crater. Science Alert says it's in Midlands.

I have also encountered this bug a few times, but until now haven't gotten any evidence for it.

As you can see, X-Science and KER both report the biome correctly.

If you want to know which mods I'm running, it's easier just to look at my CKAN list (there are 164 of them): https://www.dropbox.com/s/oh2kfcxcwdy01yo/CKAN%20list.ckan?dl=0

And here's a savefile (if it's any use to you, because of my mods): https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1p4khn4dx8wg7m/SA%20biome%20bug.sfs?dl=0

[xEvilReeperx]

And here's a savefile (if it's any use to you, because of my mods): https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1p4khn4dx8wg7m/SA%20biome%20bug.sfs?dl=0

I had a look but couldn't find a ship that matched the conditions in your screen shot. Mainly I'm interested in the ship's exact location. I'm fairly certain I know exactly what the issue is but I haven't been able to replicate it so far.

Can you replicate it by leaving the scene and going to the space center, then jumping back into the ship? If it's suddenly correct for 10-40 seconds but then stops being correct, that'll confirm my suspicions

[Nayeen]

Sometimes I can't seem to transmit science data from unmanned probes (with RemoteTech) from ScienceAlert interface. But it works if I manually click on instruments and send data (although if I click on instrument first via SA it will bug the instruments and manual sending won't work any more). So far this happened only with probes that are far away, maybe something to do with higher signal delay?

[xEvilReeperx]

What do you mean "transmit via ScienceAlert interface"? Clicking an experiment button is equivalent to manually deploying the experiment. Are there any yellow or red entries in your log just before, during or after taking a report and/or transmitting?

[Nayeen]

I mean if I manually click on an instrument and transmit data it will transmit it normally. If I click on the SA button to log an experiment it will sometimes refuse to send any data (there are no log entries in the top left at all, clicking on 'transmit' doesn't do anything). Reloading helps as well - for example if my probe doesn't want to send data I can do a quicksave and quickreload and it will work again.

Last time it happened I did a science junior experiment and I clicked on transmit data and it made the experiment void (it removed data and made it inoperable) but it didn't send any data and I couldn't run the experiment again.

Without RemoteTech I don't have this issue. Similarly with RemoteTech (and without ScienceAlert) I also don't have this issue. But with both RT and SA it happens occasionally.

PS: Maybe clicking on experiment manually or SA button has nothing to do with it if as you say they are the same (it could be biased observation since I mostly use SA button to gather science anyway). But I have this issue with like every 1 out of 20 times I'm playing around with experiments on unmanned probes. I also have a bunch of other mods (DMagic science, Interstellar etc...) so I will try to remove all other mods and see if this still happens.

[Drake1500]

I had a look but couldn't find a ship that matched the conditions in your screen shot. Mainly I'm interested in the ship's exact location. I'm fairly certain I know exactly what the issue is but I haven't been able to replicate it so far.

Can you replicate it by leaving the scene and going to the space center, then jumping back into the ship? If it's suddenly correct for 10-40 seconds but then stops being correct, that'll confirm my suspicions

Huh. It's the darndest thing - as soon as I moved that file that I had saved into my savefolder again to check, the bug did not reappear. I even tried rotating the ship really fast, to get it into the air (thinking that maybe I had to be in flight for it to trigger), but that didn't work either.

So I can tell you that it happened while flying low through the atmosphere during re-entry. I suspect it may have been that I was passing over a biome boundary, and SA for some reason thought the new biome was "Water" when it was "Grasslands". The other times I saw the bug was when I was flying an airplane over Kerbin - sometimes SA would think I was over "Water" when I was actually over some other biome, and it would stay as "Water" when I landed (not 100% sure about the timing of this, though, since I had other things to worry about ). I've only seen the bug happen while flying low over Kerbin, can't say anything about other bodies like the Mun.

[VladP53]

Every time when i'm trying to send science from unmanned probe, i got NRE:

ScienceAlert, Experiment barometerScan@KerbinInSpaceHigh just became available! Total potential science onboard currently: 0 (Cap is 16.2, threshold is Unresearched, current sci is 0, expected next report value: 16.2)

ScienceAlert, Stopping time warp

Unpacking MULander 2

ScienceAlert, Experiment mobileMaterialsLab@KerbinInSpaceHigh just became available! Total potential science onboard currently: 0 (Cap is 43.2, threshold is Unresearched, current sci is 0, expected next report value: 33.75)

ScienceAlert, Experiment mobileMaterialsLab@KerbinInSpaceHigh just became available! Total potential science onboard currently: 0 (Cap is 43.2, threshold is Unresearched, current sci is 0, expected next report value: 33.75)

Score for transmitter: 0.000 - Data Rate: 340282300000000000000000000000000000000.000 - Data Cost: 0.000

Score for transmitter: 1.275 - Data Rate: 6.667 - Data Cost: 7.500

Score for transmitter: 1.275 - Data Rate: 6.667 - Data Cost: 7.500

Score for transmitter: 1.275 - Data Rate: 6.667 - Data Cost: 7.500

NullReferenceException

UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour.StartCoroutine (IEnumerator routine)

RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTDataTransmitter.IScienceDataTransmitter.TransmitData (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 dataQueue)

ScienceAlert.MagicDataTransmitter.BeginTransmissionWithRealTransmitter (IScienceDataTransmitter transmitter, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 science, .Callback callback)

ScienceAlert.MagicDataTransmitter.Update ()

ScienceAlert, Experiment barometerScan@KerbinInSpaceHigh just became available! Total potential science onboard currently: 0 (Cap is 16.2, threshold is Unresearched, current sci is 0, expected next report value: 16.2)

Installed RemoteTech 1.6.5 and ScienceAlert 1.8.7

Edited June 1, 2015 by VladP53
indent

[xEvilReeperx]

Great! That's helpful, thanks. I'll have a look at it tonight

[RhysTheRocketScientist]

This is one of the most important mods I use, It already makes life so much more intentional rather than lackluster. I don't know if it IS capable of this and I'm just dumb, or if this has been requested before and/or already is in the works, or really hard to implement but it would be really handy.

Is it possible for the pop-up to display all available unused experiments on the craft, even if that type has already been mined for science in that biome, and have the current functionality of the mod highlighted differently.

I'm still in the early stages of the game performing visual surveys and other science scans around Kerbin. If I'm in the target sector but in a biome I have already gathered that type of experiment, I don't get alerted to do the particular scan required for the contract so don't get a shortcut in the pop-up. Subsequently I have to zoom in really tight to my vessel, open a 1.25m service bay and find and click on the experiment to complete the contract. This camera maneuver makes flying a simple jet aircraft very difficult. Having a shortcut button to each type of unused experiment part would make completing contracts much simpler and realistic.

Thanks again for the mod and I hope you are able to implement this feature in a future upgrade.

[xEvilReeperx]

I'm in the midst of a rewrite and one of the things I hope to write in is being able to alert on contract conditions, regardless of the current science filter. Admittedly I haven't reached this part and don't have any experience dealing with the contract system so I can't guarantee it can be done but if it's possible I'll make it happen

[Drake1500]

This is one of the most important mods I use, It already makes life so much more intentional rather than lackluster. I don't know if it IS capable of this and I'm just dumb, or if this has been requested before and/or already is in the works, or really hard to implement but it would be really handy.

Is it possible for the pop-up to display all available unused experiments on the craft, even if that type has already been mined for science in that biome, and have the current functionality of the mod highlighted differently.

I'm still in the early stages of the game performing visual surveys and other science scans around Kerbin. If I'm in the target sector but in a biome I have already gathered that type of experiment, I don't get alerted to do the particular scan required for the contract so don't get a shortcut in the pop-up. Subsequently I have to zoom in really tight to my vessel, open a 1.25m service bay and find and click on the experiment to complete the contract. This camera maneuver makes flying a simple jet aircraft very difficult. Having a shortcut button to each type of unused experiment part would make completing contracts much simpler and realistic.

Thanks again for the mod and I hope you are able to implement this feature in a future upgrade.

In the meantime, action groups are really helpful for this. No camera negotiation, even in midflight. And AG Extended is helpful for action groups. (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/74195-1-0-2-%28May13-15%29-Action-Groups-Extended-250-Action-Groups-in-flight-editing-Now-kOS-RemoteTech)