Stock Supermaneuverability Aircraft for Newbies?

[alter5]

So im basically asking if its possible to get "supermaneuverability" with the stock parts we have in Ksp?

to be specific could this aircraft for example get supermaneuverability with certain parts or better desing?

thanks in advance

Edited April 21, 2014 by alter5

[Spartwo]

Reaction wheels.

[Guest]

In stock KSP? Not possible, the gimbals are too weak and the aerodynamics don't model stalls. You can, on the other hand, enjoy such effects using B9 and FAR.

[alter5]

Reaction wheels.

puts 5 reaction wheels on the thing*....

This actually works better then expected

[alter5]

In stock KSP? Not possible, the gimbals are too weak and the aerodynamics don't model stalls. You can, on the other hand, enjoy such effects using B9 and FAR.

[HafCoJoe]

Yes you can build extremely maneuverable planes stock. I built this plane a while ago and its extremely maneuverable:

Kestrel

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This is easily the most maneuverable of all planes I've built. Have fun flying this thing around the VAB or launching missiles into the tower!

Kestrel

Kestrel - with external fuel tank

Kestrel Fighter

---

Basically if you add a crap load of wings in the right areas, it will add a crap load of maneuverability . Although it generally likes to induce slight infi-glide and will wobble with speeds over about 200 m/s. It's a prime example of super maneuverability though. The plane is even more maneuverable with the fuel tank proving my point xD.

Edit: I personally prefer not to use SAS but it can be good for this too (My plane has I think 2 modules).

Later!

Edited April 21, 2014 by Avera9eJoe

[vexx32]

To a point, yes. Depends what you want it for. If you just want it to be super controllable, then make it fairly small and light with plenty of control surfaces on your wings as would be normal. Make a V-shaped tail out of canards, and place a pair of canards near to the nose of the craft. Test and adjust positions and number of control surfaces as you feel the need.

[Arsonik]

My step brother took the 100 torque 1m SAS's from Impossible Innovations and made "SAS Planes" or various sizes using the different B9 airframes. I'm talking 15-20ish SAS between the cockpit and the rest of the airframe. With the stock aerodynamics model he could "flat stall" and do 180s at full throttle from any altitude he still had intake air.

I don't play with such 'cheaty' parts myself. But I know with FAR installed and enough torque from your engines you can acheive the same thing without intake spam. I made a twin engine (basic jet engine) design the other day that could do similar flat stalls and 180 spins at full throttle.

[katateochi]

yes highly maneuverable "stunt" planes are very possible with stock parts. I've been building a plane simply to have fun flying around the buildings at KSC, it's fast ~210ms at sea level and very responsive. It does use a couple reaction wheels in the rear but it also has a couple of small hidden flaps near the front and more wings that I'd usually use on craft this small. Reaction wheels do help, but too many and the craft will turn unnaturally as the reaction wheels overpower the forces from the control surfaces. The wheels fold up right inside it for a more streamlined appearance and the front fuel tank starts off half full which helps it pull up more sharply.

It's called DeadBolt because at the speeds it goes, zig-zagging between the buildings has a high mortality rate, even with an eject system. I very nearly managed to fly it under the small bridge in the RnD complex yesterday, but I clipped a wing on the way out.

Here's the craft file and here's some pics;

(the pics show its painted form, the above DL isn't painted).

(if you want the painted version I'll post that too)

[alter5]

Yes you can build extremely maneuverable planes stock. I built this plane a while ago and its extremely maneuverable:

Kestrel

http://imgur.com/a/DOdiM

This is easily the most maneuverable of all planes I've built. Have fun flying this thing around the VAB or launching missiles into the tower!

Kestrel

Kestrel - with external fuel tank

Kestrel Fighter

---

Basically if you add a crap load of wings in the right areas, it will add a crap load of maneuverability . Although it generally likes to induce slight infi-glide and will wobble with speeds over about 200 m/s. It's a prime example of super maneuverability though. The plane is even more maneuverable with the fuel tank proving my point xD.

Edit: I personally prefer not to use SAS but it can be good for this too (My plane has I think 2 modules).

Later!

thanks a bunch mate the Kestrel fly´s flawlessly and i learned to put a bunch of wings on my stuff at least for the aircrobats/funcrafts

[alter5]

yes highly maneuverable "stunt" planes are very possible with stock parts. I've been building a plane simply to have fun flying around the buildings at KSC, it's fast ~210ms at sea level and very responsive. It does use a couple reaction wheels in the rear but it also has a couple of small hidden flaps near the front and more wings that I'd usually use on craft this small. Reaction wheels do help, but too many and the craft will turn unnaturally as the reaction wheels overpower the forces from the control surfaces. The wheels fold up right inside it for a more streamlined appearance and the front fuel tank starts off half full which helps it pull up more sharply.

It's called DeadBolt because at the speeds it goes, zig-zagging between the buildings has a high mortality rate, even with an eject system. I very nearly managed to fly it under the small bridge in the RnD complex yesterday, but I clipped a wing on the way out.

Here's the craft file and here's some pics;

(the pics show its painted form, the above DL isn't painted).

http://i.imgur.com/8OjXKGel.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/keY0jU9l.jpg

(if you want the painted version I'll post that too)

looks sweet gonna try it asap

[HafCoJoe]

I've found there is a list of ways to get extremely maneuverable planes and you really need to find what fields to fill for your preference.

Hey Katateochi!

One off topic tip to building water planes is put your wheels on the end of vertical fins so your plane is raised out of the water (like hydrofoils IRL) works very well with some experimentation.

[katateochi]

looks sweet gonna try it asap

oh fyi, the eject is wired to the abort button (backspace) but the chutes won't open until you hit 0. (or you can just use stage to eject and stage again for chutes, but I find that's slower to respond)/

[alter5]

oh fyi, the eject is wired to the abort button (backspace) but the chutes won't open until you hit 0. (or you can just use stage to eject and stage again for chutes, but I find that's slower to respond)/

its a really nice aircraft man could you maybe explain it a bit more like how you build it because the thing with it is it fly´s absolutely stable no wobbleling great stuff

[katateochi]

I've found there is a list of ways to get extremely maneuverable planes and you really need to find what fields to fill for your preference.

Hey Katateochi!

One off topic tip to building water planes is put your wheels on the end of vertical fins so your plane is raised out of the water (like hydrofoils IRL) works very well with some experimentation.

Hey ya!

Re sea planes, do you use radial intakes for water landings? That's been my approach

[katateochi]

its a really nice aircraft man could you maybe explain it a bit more like how you build it because the thing with it is it fly´s absolutely stable no wobbleling and stuff great stuff

Thanks!! umm, explaining it, errr; lots of trail and error!! My earlier attempts with small fast planes shook like crazy at high speed, more wings really helped stabilize it. Also using the smaller control surfaces seemed to help. If you pull this one apart you'll find two small control surfaces infront of the COM, but that doesn't always workout thou.

The main thing with planes is the balance of COM and COL, the lift should be just behind the COM. It's also important to look at how the COM moves as the fuel is consumed.

For its size this plane has a lot of lift which helps it pull out of dives really well, but it biggest draw back is its pretty short range and doesn't have suitable air intakes for high alt flight. I did make a transport section so I could take it to some of the canyons on Kerbin, but that part isn't stock;

[Giggleplex777]

I built one without reaction wheels that can pull 20+ Gs in a loop.

You can find it here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39880-Zepto-Eagleworks-ASMX-Released!?p=511193#post511193

Edited April 21, 2014 by Giggleplex777

[_Aramchek_]

Sure you can, here's the bestest.

Link in comments.

[Othuyeg]

It is easy to make a small supermanouverable craft in stock KSP. Making one that is big and can land anywhere, that is where the fun is.

http://www.twitch.tv/othuyeg/c/3868521

[zarakon]

Depends on what you mean

If you just mean "extremely maneuverable", then yes you can do that with stock parts by just using a whole lot of wings and control surfaces.

If you're actually talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermaneuverability then that's something else entirely.

A typical very maneuverable plane in KSP has two main properties:

- Lots of control surfaces allow it to turn quickly

- Lots of total wing surface keeps your velocity vector lined up with where your nose is pointing so that you don't just drift or spin out

The second point there kind of makes supermaneuverability a non-issue. Supermaneuverability describes what you can do with a plane at high angle of attack, when your velocity vector and nose don't line up anymore and your control surfaces and wings don't work normally anymore. This doesn't really happen in stock because you generally design your planes to avoid being able to reach a high angle of attack (with lots of wings) and because KSP doesn't properly model aerodynamics, particularly stalls. You'd want to use FAR to get a more realistic model.

Real planes achieve supermaneuverability mostly by using thrust vectoring, which allows control of rotation independent of lift or control surfaces. KSP gives you additional options via RCS thrusters and reaction wheels.

[Arsonik]

Real planes achieve supermaneuverability mostly by using thrust vectoring, which allows control of rotation independent of lift or control surfaces. KSP gives you additional options via RCS thrusters and reaction wheels.

You can get the tweakable everything mod... which pretty much lets you tweak... anything. By doing so you can adjust engine gimbals among other things. This includes setting basic jet engine to a 2 gimbal as opposed to 1.

[_Aramchek_]

The plane I posted throws the "high maneuverability checklistâ„¢" right out the window. :v

[Vanamonde]

Moved to how-to.

[Javster]

I want to try flying a plane with one wing, loads of reaction wheels and Jeb piloting.

[Claw]

This plane (the bigger one in the pics) was designed as a piggyback spaceplane carrier, but ended up being able to pull 15+ Gs without going out of control.

(Just one more stock example.)