[0.24] Gimbal Auto Trim 1.1 (Sept 2)

[Starwaster]

I have a couple of requests/suggestions for when this plugin's problem (with gimballing all the way over) is fixed.

1. config option to lock max gimbal angle to gimbalRange.
   
2. provide autotrim enable toggle as an actiongroup item.
   

[ecat]

I love the idea, tested something similar myself when working on my Infernal Robotics CoM tracking system. How does this mod compare with simply changing the value of gimbalRange in the stock engine's cfg files?

As a quick test I modified the LV45 engine from gimbalRange = 1 to gimbalRange = 45, ie

Edit the parg.cfg for liquidEngine2

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleGimbal
	gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
	gimbalRange = 45
}

Knocking together an unbalanced stock test craft I included the fuel flow from hell, you can see it ends the ascent with only one engine lol. Turns out that you don't even need the extra reaction wheel, though you do need to be a bit quick at launch and do a bit of adjustment to keep things on target.

And a short test flight for your amusement (and because it's been ages since I made a video, so please forgive my enthusiasm)

http://www.i2net.me.uk/files/Games/KerbalSP/Ships/45DegGimbalTest/Extreme Gimbal Test.craft

Edited May 13, 2014 by ecat

[quantumpion]

Interesting results. It looks almost perfect except the gimbals move too fast. Is there a way to limit the max gimbal speed to look and feel a bit more realistic?

[Starwaster]

Interesting results. It looks almost perfect except the gimbals move too fast. Is there a way to limit the max gimbal speed to look and feel a bit more realistic?

Yes there is but I dont remember what it is...

A prop that you set True on ModuleGimbal.... PC out again so on iPad. I'll find out.

edit: here it is

useGimbalResponseSpeed = true

theres also

gimbalResponseSpeed

i think default is 10 or 100. faster is better...?

Edit 2

@ECat: difference btw is that, just setting high gimbal range means you're relying on the system to react when it starts to go off course. Even with fast response time or zero delay, things can destabilize.

If the problems with auto trim can be nailed down, it's calculating optimal trim BEFORE things destabilize. Proactive instead of reactive.

Edit 3: tried what you did btw with the KSO, replacing their custom gimbal with stock ModuleGimbal at the KSO value of 14 for range and it did better than just cranking it up to something like 14. too bad gimbal rangen isnt tweakable

Edited May 15, 2014 by Starwaster

[falken]

Anyone got a decent engine (1.25) to use with this for a shuttle?

[bs1110101]

Having Module Manager make all engines with gimbals use this works well, though it too derpy mostly, gimbal range from center of mass should be tweakable, and by default set to say 2 degrees or something like that.

Also, a config for this needs to be made so that it excludes engines that can only gimbal a bit, say like the redstone engine from FASA, which really couldn't do this, it could only vector a bit of thrust.

Also, make it so that you can steer with the gimbaling if you have more then one engine.

[ecat]

Edit 2

@ECat: difference btw is that, just setting high gimbal range means you're relying on the system to react when it starts to go off course. Even with fast response time or zero delay, things can destabilize.

If the problems with auto trim can be nailed down, it's calculating optimal trim BEFORE things destabilize. Proactive instead of reactive.

Edit 3: tried what you did btw with the KSO, replacing their custom gimbal with stock ModuleGimbal at the KSO value of 14 for range and it did better than just cranking it up to something like 14. too bad gimbal rangen isnt tweakable

As I said, it's just something I investigated a few months ago. I rejected the idea on the grounds of aesthetics - the big twitch is ugly and highly distracting.

As you say, it relies on the inbuilt control algorithm. The good side of this is that SQUAD has spent a long time tuning this. The bad side, it is reactive, also if SQUAD change their algorithm it may break this trick someday.

Predictive sounds tricky, very tricky in a game involving user interaction and one where parts can simply drop off, intentionally or otherwise. I'm certainly interested to see how it turns out and wish you the very best of luck.

[Starwaster]

As I said, it's just something I investigated a few months ago. I rejected the idea on the grounds of aesthetics - the big twitch is ugly and highly distracting.

As you say, it relies on the inbuilt control algorithm. The good side of this is that SQUAD has spent a long time tuning this. The bad side, it is reactive, also if SQUAD change their algorithm it may break this trick someday.

Predictive sounds tricky, very tricky in a game involving user interaction and one where parts can simply drop off, intentionally or otherwise. I'm certainly interested to see how it turns out and wish you the very best of luck.

You mean you wish Sarbian the very best of luck.

[sarbian]

<reads last few posts>

Err, ok.

I think there is a few misconception on how this works. This is not a gimbal.

But resume as you were.

[Mykill Metal]

...so Klockheed Martian is or isn't supported? If not, how long until it is?

[bs1110101]

Nothing is really supported yet, seeing as the parts all need configs for them to be made, and nothing works without them right now.

If you want you can add this to the shuttle engines and make it work i think, though it might be derpy seeing as most of them have a 1 axis gimbal or at least a far shorter gimballing range on one axis.

[Guest]

He means the gimbal plugin. Klockheed Martian uses a different gimbal module with, among other things, per-axis gimbal control and gimbal speed limiter. The auto-trim needs to account for those.

[bs1110101]

He means the gimbal plugin. Klockheed Martian uses a different gimbal module with, among other things, per-axis gimbal control and gimbal speed limiter. The auto-trim needs to account for those.

True, though it could be made to work with a normal gimbal if you wanted, though it might not be worth bothering with.

I could write a config that makes it work and turns all Klockheed Martian weird gimbals to normal gimbals set up with this plugin.

[Starwaster]

True, though it could be made to work with a normal gimbal if you wanted, though it might not be worth bothering with.

I could write a config that makes it work and turns all Klockheed Martian weird gimbals to normal gimbals set up with this plugin.

Been there, done tha, got the T-shirt that says "HOLY crap why is the ground rushing up to meet me at break neck speeds???"

[ecat]

You mean you wish Sarbian the very best of luck.

Whoops, thank you.

Very best of luck Sarbian

[Boamere]

can someone explain how this mod helps with shuttles (or at least how to use it)? I had the boosters on my shuttle more powerful than my liquid engines (so it would flip booster side on top), but when i activate auto trim on my liquid engines, they flip the whole shuttle engine side up...

I feel like I am missing something very simple

(Minor edit: when I try to make a shuttle without solid rocket boosters it still flips out like crazy, any help?)

Edited June 3, 2014 by Boamere

[wased89]

Your OP says "Direction of Thurst" instead of "Thrust" So I couldn't help but picture the kerbals having to face a certain direction to drink water... XD

[Gaalidas]

I've long since moved on to the other gimbal-related plugin out there that comes with the shuttle mods. This plugin has the unfortunate effect of causing some engines to instantly hit maximum heat tolerance, causing mechjeb to reduce the throttle to minimum in order to stop over-heating. The bigger issue, however, is that the heat-meter is not showing to indicate overheating and upon releasing the engine from the auto-gimbal it explodes instantly and spectacularly. Can be reproduced consistently with the NASA medium-sized quad-nozzle engine.

[Pondafarr]

I've even had a few engines explode when I disable the gimbal in-flight. when it works, its awesome, when it kicks the gimbal to full sideways, its not

[Starwaster]

can someone explain how this mod helps with shuttles (or at least how to use it)? I had the boosters on my shuttle more powerful than my liquid engines (so it would flip booster side on top), but when i activate auto trim on my liquid engines, they flip the whole shuttle engine side up...

I feel like I am missing something very simple

(Minor edit: when I try to make a shuttle without solid rocket boosters it still flips out like crazy, any help?)

Sounds like similar to a known bug that's been discussed on previous pages. IIRC it had something to do with center of mass...? Where if center of thrust was in front of center of mass it was resulting in negative value in certain calculation causing the engine to gimbal to extremes.

[Kebra]

Hi,

sorry for being a noob (im still new to mods in KSP).

I have ModuleManager installed and in KSP/GameData/GimbalAutoTrim/ i have added a file called: GimbalAutoTrim.cfg

This file contains:

@PART

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]]

{

@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]

{

@name = ModuleGimbalAutoTrim

gimbalAutoTrim = true

trimLimit = 45

}

}

Alongside the cfg file is the GimbalAutoTrim.dll

It seems to be adjusting way to much, flipping the whole thing. If i manually adjust the engines to thrust at the CoM then it works just fine

Edited July 14, 2014 by Kebra

[Starwaster]

Hi,

sorry for being a noob (im still new to mods in KSP).

I have ModuleManager installed and in KSP/GameData/GimbalAutoTrim/ i have added a file called: GimbalAutoTrim.cfg

This file contains:

@PART

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]]

{

@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]

{

@name = ModuleGimbalAutoTrim

gimbalAutoTrim = true

trimLimit = 45

}

}

Alongside the cfg file is the GimbalAutoTrim.dll

It seems to be adjusting way to much, flipping the whole thing. If i manually adjust the engines to thrust at the CoM then it works just fine

Read the thread; there's a bug in it that is known and talked about.

[BARCLONE]

Just tried out this mod, and it smoothed out the launch of one of my 'heavy-class' launchers. It didn't experience the "pendulum" effect (MJ PID-control error corrections) during the ascent to orbit that I'd seen previously. Very nice!

[ZewelVonLelek]

Hi,

how is it with 0.24.2 compatibility?

[sarbian]

Not yet compatible but I'll work on it.