Nothing to see here... keep moving.

[Llorx]

Main forum post: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/78861

Edited May 4, 2014 by Llorx

[Justin Kerbice]

It looks promising and congratulations if the multi-platform part of the tool works well (working with such GUI toolkit can be a nightmare, and lead to ugly looking apps).

One feature idea: filter unnecessary content (source, readme, license inside GameData/*)

+ check file names as some modders mess up completely with normal maps names (I see some comment in old threads regarding disrespect of naming convention)

[Llorx]

It looks promising and congratulations if the multi-platform part of the tool works well (working with such GUI toolkit can be a nightmare, and lead to ugly looking apps).

One feature idea: filter unnecessary content (source, readme, license inside GameData/*)

+ check file names as some modders mess up completely with normal maps names (I see some comment in old threads regarding disrespect of naming convention)

- filter unnecessary content under GameData. Added to the list! Thank you!

I don't get what do you mean with normal maps names...

[Justin Kerbice]

- filter unnecessary content under GameData. Added to the list! Thank you!

I don't get what do you mean with normal maps names...

do some search for old threads, what I remember is some mods have normal maps with names which don't follow the naming rule (tex_NRM.format) which makes KSP don't use them properly or something like this.

[Llorx]

do some search for old threads, what I remember is some mods have normal maps with names which don't follow the naming rule (tex_NRM.format) which makes KSP don't use them properly or something like this.

Oh, ok. Going to look for it. Thank you!

EDIT: OK, now I see what happens. Don't think that I'll add that feature because this is for managing mods and versions, not for fixing broken mods. Adding this will be more work and more work can lead to more problems/less time for other features. If in the future I add something that fixes mods then surely I add this but right now I prefer to stick only in management. Btw thank you for the idea!

Edited April 25, 2014 by Llorx

[BrutalRIP]

Im still waiting for a mod manager that can auto update mods from the forum i only use spaceport if i must

[Ringkeeper]

Im still waiting for a mod manager that can auto update mods from the forum i only use spaceport if i must

+1

But i´m happy with any updater. For forum it will be hard i guess, as the naming of threads is not similar, each mod uses messed up thread titels... I still hope there will be a spaceport 2 which works nice. Or that curse/nexxus picks up KSP....

[Llorx]

Im still waiting for a mod manager that can auto update mods from the forum i only use spaceport if i must

Exactly what Ringkeeper said, that's why I have as an Upcoming feature to let developers update their forums threads with an specific mark/format for this software to recognize when they updated their mods. But that's only possible in the long term and only if this software gets a bit 'famous'. Btw, maybe we get lucky enugh

[toril]

I would appreciate if it would make a backup of selected persistence files when you make a change in installed mods. Adding or removing mods in particular.

[Llorx]

I would appreciate if it would make a backup of selected persistence files when you make a change in installed mods. Adding or removing mods in particular.

Persistence files are savegames?

[Franklin]

If you manage to pull this off there'll be a lot of people in your debt.

There are some mods that don't list on SpacePort, though, which is a hurdle you're going to need to consider at some point. GitHub's another popular place, for example, and most of us are used to going to mumech for the latest MechJeb updates: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

[Llorx]

If you manage to pull this off there'll be a lot of people in your debt.

There are some mods that don't list on SpacePort, though, which is a hurdle you're going to need to consider at some point. GitHub's another popular place, for example, and most of us are used to going to mumech for the latest MechJeb updates: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/

Oh nice, GitHub/Jenkins has version control per se. Going to add it to the version control list. Thank you!

Edited April 25, 2014 by Llorx

[Franklin]

Thanks for the consideration. Getting support for auto-updating from GitHub will sell me on what you're trying to do for sure, and will cover probably 80% of major mods.

Then it's just a matter of bullying the modders who upload everything as mediafire zips to start using SP or Git.

[Tiberion]

Looks cool, except..

Spaceport is dying and Squad isn't going to maintain it or replace it. They've been hinting at something else (perhaps Steam workshop, but who knows when that will happen.) The uploads fail most of the time now, and are unreliable when they are uploaded. I have ceased trying to publish there at all. So I think you would be better off at this early stage of adapting to other services such as mediafire/dropbox or whatever. Maybe someday the new community mod repository will exist, too.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Tiberion

[NathanKell]

Yup, never have used Spessspohrt, never will.

While we're requesting features...

1. Modlists: Ability to publish metamods that list other mods (in install order).

2. A modicum of scriptability: ability to have a mod install routine that involves "copy this file to that folder" or the like.

As jamis no longer has time to maintain the Mod Bundler (also written in Java--you might find useful stuff in it to borrow), and as I'd rather not take on another project, I was hoping this could work for RO/RSS/etc.

[Korb Biakustra]

Currently developed Features list:

- Multiplatform.

- Autodownload mods.

- Keep control of new mods updates.

- Autodetect GameDatas to install in downloaded mods.

- Lets you select what to install and what not.

- Uninstall mods.

- Keep track of overwritten files, so you can check if you delete them or not after unistalling.

- Detect README files for you to check while installing.

Upcoming features:

- Intelligent backup of overwritten files, so originals can be recovered when unistalling a mod. Will track if multiple mods overwrite the same file (That's why I call it intelligent xD).

- Keep track of a mod version without installing it, so you will be noticed when there's an update.

- Add GitHub/Jenkins support the same way as Spaceport, with version control and that things. [Franklin contribution]

- Possibility to install mods that aren't from Spaceport. With this it will be impossible to keep track of updates.

- Creating a custom server so mod developers can tell if a mod was updated and where to get the update, just in case they don't use Sapceport. Aso maybe I will ask developers to format forum posts in a special way instead of creating a custom server.

- Option to redownload/reinstall mods.

- Detect config files and don't delete them when updating a mod. A workaround will be to ask what files to keep when updating.

- Filter unnecessary content under GameData (source, readme, license...) [Justin Kerbice contribution]

I'm speechless. The wait is killing me. I have been looking for that since, well, since approximately 1924 when I realized KSP mod community was so productive. Keeping track of updates or new mods is so difficult that I always end up giving up and having a totally outdated/broken installation.

A few ideas, don't know if they are technically feasible, or even smart, but as you asked:

1. Possibility to manually assign priorities to individual mods, later used when auto-updating/auto-redownloading/auto-reinstalling all mods. This would be very useful for mods or part of mods that overwrite part of the files of other mods. A "ranking" or whatever column would be displayed, and unique numbers could be set for each individual mod to sort the download/installation order. Mods without ranking value would be treated normally, perhaps alphabetically, but after ranked ones.

2. Add possibility to manually add an URL associated with a mod, for those not on Spaceport or those hosted in weird ways that will prevent automation of updates. That way, one could at least use a key+click combination to reach the forum thread and check version, or any repository. Automation is of course ideal, but I'm sure some mods will always be difficult to automatically update. In case of forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com thread, your application would recognize the URL and check for "Last OP edition", thereby providing a dirty way of warning the user that there is something new.

3. Some sort of patch manager for mods, I-have-no-idea-how. What I am thinking about is mods like TextureReplacer that are most often customized by users using the combination of textures they like the most, or even configuration files. Perhaps a "simpler" way would be to right click on a mod an get a list of files in its GameData\Folder, with option to lock them to current version despite future updates. That would work for texture files, but would be trickier for configuration files if the new versions bring new features.

4. If no mod version information is detected in the mod, display date of last local update. In conjunction with feature 2, this would be very useful.

Anyway, be the ideas feasible or not, dumb or not, thanks for this great initiative. I guess I'll keep one more tab open for days and refresh it regularly to check for updates and download links.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Korb Biakustra

[Llorx]

Looks cool, except..

Spaceport is dying and Squad isn't going to maintain it or replace it. They've been hinting at something else (perhaps Steam workshop, but who knows when that will happen.) The uploads fail most of the time now, and are unreliable when they are uploaded. I have ceased trying to publish there at all. So I think you would be better off at this early stage of adapting to other services such as mediafire/dropbox or whatever. Maybe someday the new community mod repository will exist, too.

I prefer to move to somewhere with version control, that's the point of this maintenance software. When I add the support to Mediafire, Dropbox, etc... will be impossible to check if there's an update because the link is going to be the same all the time, so I encourage devs to use GitHub/Jenkins, BitBucket, or at least always add the mod update to the same Dropbox folder, so I can check that folder for newer files. Simply use something that can have an automated version control. I'm thinking in adding plugin support for this software so people can program their own plugins to keep control of mods published in extrange sites.

Yup, never have used Spessspohrt, never will.

While we're requesting features...

1. Modlists: Ability to publish metamods that list other mods (in install order).

2. A modicum of scriptability: ability to have a mod install routine that involves "copy this file to that folder" or the like.

As jamis no longer has time to maintain the Mod Bundler (also written in Java--you might find useful stuff in it to borrow), and as I'd rather not take on another project, I was hoping this could work for RO/RSS/etc.

Not bad the modlists feature. I'm thinking in formatting the list in a special way (plain text) and add the option to export it to a file or publish it to Pastebin so people can copy/paste or load the Pastebin link directly.

About the routine... You mean to add a routine to the modlist, so it will download and autoselect which files to install instead of asking the user? Is not a bad idea, but knowing that each time a developer updates a mod there are chances that the file names and location can change, this is going to be difficult. Maybe I can add a checker that will test the routine, and if it fails then ask the user to select the files to install.

Thank you for the ideas!

[Llorx]

I'm speechless. The wait is killing me. I have been looking for that since, well, since approximately 1924 when I realized KSP mod community was so productive. Keeping track of updates or new mods is so difficult that I always end up giving up and having a totally outdated/broken installation.

A few ideas, don't know if they are technically feasible, or even smart, but as you asked:

1. Possibility to manually assign priorities to individual mods, later used when auto-updating/auto-redownloading/auto-reinstalling all mods. This would be very useful for mods or part of mods that overwrite part of the files of other mods. A "ranking" or whatever column would be displayed, and unique numbers could be set for each individual mod to sort the download/installation order. Mods without ranking value would be treated normally, perhaps alphabetically, but after ranked ones.

2. Add possibility to manually add an URL associated with a mod, for those not on Spaceport or those hosted in weird ways that will prevent automation of updates. That way, one could at least use a key+click combination to reach the forum thread and check version, or any repository. Automation is of course ideal, but I'm sure some mods will always be difficult to automatically update. In case of forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com thread, your application would recognize the URL and check for "Last OP edition", thereby providing a dirty way of warning the user that there is something new.

3. Some sort of patch manager for mods, I-have-no-idea-how. What I am thinking about is mods like TextureReplacer that are most often customized by users using the combination of textures they like the most, or even configuration files. Perhaps a "simpler" way would be to right click on a mod an get a list of files in its GameData\Folder, with option to lock them to current version despite future updates. That would work for texture files, but would be trickier for configuration files if the new versions bring new features.

4. If no mod version information is detected in the mod, display date of last local update. In conjunction with feature 2, this would be very useful.

Anyway, be the ideas feasible or not, dumb or not, thanks for this great initiative. I guess I'll keep one more tab open for days and refresh it regularly to check for updates and download links.

1. Because each mod file to install is a different world (Multiple GameDatas, only one GameData, any GameData at all, Parts files inside main zip or inside a folder...), currently the software asks you what to install and what not and will ask if you want to overwrite something, so if a mod would overwrite something but you install it first, when you install the mod that was going to be overwritten you can tell it to only install files that does not exist. Selecting manually what to install is a 2 click task because it will do its best to detect GameDatas/Files to install and will extract them automatically. Also, what you say can be fixed with NathanKell 'modlist with scripting' idea.

2. Really cool workaround. I like it. Going to add it for sure.

3. Don't really get what you mean. You mean to prevent files from being deleted/overwritten with each update? I like the lock idea for that.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Llorx

[Korb Biakustra]

Not bad the modlists feature. I'm thinking in formatting the list in a special way (plain text) and add the option to export it to a file or publish it to Pastebin so people can copy/paste or load the Pastebin link directly.

That would be terrific. May I recommend using Hastebin instead of Pastebin? Less bloat, no captcha, lighter website, and so on.

About the routine... You mean to add a routine to the modlist, so it will download and autoselect which files to install instead of asking the user? Is not a bad idea, but knowing that each time a developer updates a mod there are chances that the file names and location can change, this is going to be difficult. Maybe I can add a checker that will test the routine, and if it fails then ask the user to select the files to install.

Actually I think this is close to what I wanted to suggest (feature 1), if I understand correclty (if not, then I'm sorry NathanKell). No autoselection of which files to install, but just fixed install order. First mod listed first mod installed, and so on. You have to create your modlist carefully before sharing it with others, but when done, you know your bunch of mods will automatically install flawlessly on every machine even though some mods in your list are meant to alter files of previous ones in the list. My ranking suggestion is also for manually setting a sequence for mods detected in GameData. For instance I currently have ActiveTextureManagement, SoundTrack Editor, TextureReplacer, and the Renaissance Compilation. When updates will be published, I don't want to update Renaissance Compilation first. And the sequence will always be the same, so it could be useful to set it up once and then just hit "Update all" button every time there is something new.

1. Because each mod file to install is a different world (Multiple GameDatas, only one GameData, any GameData at all, Parts files inside main zip or inside a folder...), currently the software asks you what to install and what not and will ask if you want to overwrite something, so if a mod would overwrite something but you install it first, when you install the mod that was going to be overwritten you can tell it to only install files that does not exist.

Absolutely, but the idea is that you will forget the sequence quite quickly if you do not play KSP often nor follow the forum on a regular basis. For me, KSP is a succession of long breaks and periods of playing frenzy. So most often, I just have no idea what my "GameData\Folders" are about when I come back to the game, and so I have no idea whether mod 1 should overwrite mod 2 or the other way around. But yes, NathanKell modlist seems to be very close!

2. Really cool workaround. I like it. Going to add it for sure.

Glad you like it!

3. Don't really get what you mean. You mean to prevent files from being deleted/overwritten with each update? I like the lock idea for that.

Exactly! Locking files is some sort of "read-only" feature, built-in your application. The "patch" idea was for configuration files: their content may be edited by users depending on their needs, yet new updates can change the content too and add new options. What would be useful would be a diff manager (initial version, user version, updates), but that would probably be very tricky and a lot of efforts for not so much benefits. Sorry for my English, these last days have been crazy and tiredness is not improving my already not-so-good-English. Edited April 26, 2014 by Korb Biakustra

[Llorx]

That would be terrific. May I recommend using Hastebin instead of Pastebin? Less bloat, no captcha, lighter website, and so on.

Fine, perfect. I first tought about Pastebin because of his reputation, but I don't use any text paste site so I don't know how it is going. I will select the best one, of course. I don't like captchas and I want my app to import the modlist by simply adding the link, so no captchas is needed xD.

Exactly! Locking files is some sort of "read-only" feature, built-in your application. The "patch" idea was for configuration files: their content may be edited by users depending on their needs, yet new updates can change the content too and add new options. What would be useful would be a diff manager (initial version, user version, updates), but that would probably be very tricky and a lot of efforts for not so much benefits. Sorry for my English, these last days have been crazy and tiredness is not improving my already not-so-good-English.

As you say, a system for patching mods is difficult. Can be done, but surely will give multiple problems, and that means tons of efforts that I can't put in other features. Maybe if I finish the app I can try to add that, but I tell you in advance that there are 99% chances of this not being to happen xD

Btw, that feature is not bad. Not everyone will use it, but well, maybe a minority will like it for sure.

PD: My english is worse xDD

Thanx again!

[Tiberion]

I prefer to move to somewhere with version control, that's the point of this maintenance software. When I add the support to Mediafire, Dropbox, etc... will be impossible to check if there's an update because the link is going to be the same all the time, so I encourage devs to use GitHub/Jenkins, BitBucket, or at least always add the mod update to the same Dropbox folder, so I can check that folder for newer files. Simply use something that can have an automated version control. I'm thinking in adding plugin support for this software so people can program their own plugins to keep control of mods published in extrange sites.

Those are all code/project management sites, which are very nice for plugins. They aren't file hosts, and hosting large part mods like Novapunch there likely won't fly. Believe me I wouldn't be using Mediafire as the primary download if there was a better alternative. Other sites like ModDb are either too dense/unusable or require the app to download. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but this is the reality of file hosting for the community right now.

I have always maintained tight version controls and kept each version listed for download for a long time, even using Mediafire and dropbox.

[Korb Biakustra]

Doesn't Bitbucket allow large files? This is a naive question, I'm not a coder, please don't hurt me. :<

[NathanKell]

I meant the modlists to implicitly have an order; many will break otherwise. Further, I suggest a phone-home model, where the modlist itself is hosted remotely and can be updated by someone (i.e. me) which will push to all clients.

As for routines, I meant "subroutines", i.e. actual scriptability. Rather than a modlist that simply does "get and extract each mod in order", it would support modlists that do something like

1. Get package X, extract to GameData (overwriting any existing files)

2. Get package Y, extract to GameData (overwriting any existing files)

3. Move file Y/foo.cfg to X/bar/foo.cfg

Basically, my question is "can this replicate the functionality of the Mod Bundler" :]

[Llorx]

Those are all code/project management sites, which are very nice for plugins. They aren't file hosts, and hosting large part mods like Novapunch there likely won't fly. Believe me I wouldn't be using Mediafire as the primary download if there was a better alternative. Other sites like ModDb are either too dense/unusable or require the app to download. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but this is the reality of file hosting for the community right now.

I have always maintained tight version controls and kept each version listed for download for a long time, even using Mediafire and dropbox.

Hmmm... I think that I have something for this then. With Korb Biakustra's idea (Looking for forum edits) and then looking for files with zip extension in the main post we can follow forum mod updates. If finds 2 or more zip files will ask the user what files download and install.

Thank you for the info!

I meant the modlists to implicitly have an order; many will break otherwise. Further, I suggest a phone-home model, where the modlist itself is hosted remotely and can be updated by someone (i.e. me) which will push to all clients.

As for routines, I meant "subroutines", i.e. actual scriptability. Rather than a modlist that simply does "get and extract each mod in order", it would support modlists that do something like

1. Get package X, extract to GameData (overwriting any existing files)

2. Get package Y, extract to GameData (overwriting any existing files)

3. Move file Y/foo.cfg to X/bar/foo.cfg

Basically, my question is "can this replicate the functionality of the Mod Bundler" :]

Yes, I know what you mean with scripting, it is possible and there are chances that I add it. I have experience programming pseudo-programming languages for bots so there's not going to be any problem. Also maybe I add an option to compile your own Java plugins that this program will import, the bad thing is that, as the modlist also will have the plugin to parse the list, it can't be in plain txt. I have to think about it.

Also another bad thing is that for remotely hosting a file so clients get your updates we need a service provider, and I don't want to create a server just for this. I'm thinking in using this forum like everyone do. You will create a forum post with the exported modlist and with the idea explained above, the Mod Manager will keep track of your changes in the post, checking updates from you. Also this way each big modlist will have its custom forum post where people can talk about it with the creator. For lesser modlists, if people don't want to create a forum post we can still use other free alternatives.

Doesn't Bitbucket allow large files? This is a naive question, I'm not a coder, please don't hurt me. :<

Don't know xDD

[NathanKell]

Forum post makes sense; I was actually thinking github.