Modders Need Love

[Geschosskopf]

I have noticed a great injustice in this forum, and it is this: By and large the modders, who put in countless pro bono hours to make all kinds of cool stuff for us, have hardly any rep at all. This even if they've made or now maintain mods pretty much everybody considers utterly essential. And even if their work isn't used by many, usually it's of quite high quality and deserves a nod for the effort even if you don't use their stuff. Seriously, it's a rare modder who has more than 1 green light under his name. And meanwhile, guys like me, who have made no substantive contributions to the community but just toot our own horns with mission reports, often have way more. The karmic (kErmic?) imbalance in all this is now posing a significant threat to the continued existence of the universe itself. Kraken attacks are bleeding over into real life.

Therefore I urge all KSPers who don't want to see the apocalypse happen this year to open up their GameData folders, see what mods they have, and go rep those who made and/or now maintain them. And then go through the last 10 or so pages of both the mod release and development forums and hand out more rep to whatever strikes you as a valiant effort whether you use it or not.

And don't think you get nothing out of doing this. If you like a mod, you want to see it continue at least as long as your own interest in KSP. But every time KSP updates, some mods, even very popular ones, bite the dust instead of their creators/maintainers updating them to suit. How often is this caused by the creator/maintainer feeling under-appreciated? Rep has no cash value but it's symbolic. Napolean said "It is by baubles that men are led," referring to medals and awards. Rep here is our version of giving a medal. So give rep to those deserving of it.

[Superfluous J]

Does Rep actually count for anything?

I get some and give some, but other than a quick and easy private way to thumbs up a joke or clever idea, what use actually is it?

[CaptainKipard]

Yeah, and have you seen that SQUAD guy? All he does is make announcements!

Seriously though it's kind of easy to download a mod, test it, and just forget about the person who made it, because you're having too much fun playing it. I'm guilty too. I think I can count on my fingers the number of mod authors I repped. And less than half of my rep is mod related despite having a 5-star rating and thousands of downloads.

My mods aren't that complex though.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

I try to give rep when I think it's needed. In fact I think I'm going to go and give some rep to mods I download from now on, I agree they don't get enough for their work and effort.

[Rowsdower]

Have you hugged your modder today? No, seriously, I think this is a great idea. These are the people that test the limits of the game and bring in so many layers of depth that even those of us at Squad are routinely impressed by what they do. Give them all of the reputation!

Does Rep actually count for anything?

I get some and give some, but other than a quick and easy private way to thumbs up a joke or clever idea, what use actually is it?

Only as much as Reddit karma. Which is, you know, nothing. It is an indicator as to post quality, though and overall meaning to the community.

[Superfluous J]

I'm in, free rep to every mod I use!

Well, not all of them. Looks like the forum only allow you to do about 10 per day I'll do more tomorrow and I guess more the day after that too

And Blizzy's gonna take some time to get all his Karma. I use like 5 of his mods and it seems you can only do the same person once a day.

[Justin Kerbice]

@Geschosskopf: frankly, most people who'd better not to even go here and post, seriously, I've asked just one serious question in general section and got only useless answers mostly from people who have nothing better to do :/.

And watching people asking first before do simple search (worth when adding "don't want/take time/ to search") is pitiful.

The same with boring topics (64 bits support and ARM before/while/after release mostly).

And finally, people who makes mods mainly for community (and not really for themselves first) would feel under-appreciated, more than others, as you wrote, as community tend to be quite "harsh" sometimes, even by just 2/3 people say thanks even when a mod have billions of downloads. Or just by being focused too much on a "not so great mod after all", but ignoring a little very polished, bug-less mod made with love and passion.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'm curious how rep works exactly. I've read the post describing it (can't seem to find it now) but it doesn't seem to be accurate.

I mostly give rep for good forum posts, only occasionally for mods (I don't use many anyway). I've even given rep to posts I strongly disagree with, if they're well written and reasoned enough to make me think about my position on the subject.

[Geschosskopf]

To whichever mod moved this thread into here:

Why did you do that? This thread isn't about a mod or mods, or modding tools, trends, or techniques. It was addressed to the general KSP community at large to discuss a community-wide issue. Therefore, I posted it in the general KSP discussion so it would be visible to all community members. Please return it there.

Seriously, hardly anybody but a few modders reads this "General Add-On Affairs" forum. This right now, as I type this, is the only time I've ever ventured in here myself and I've been playing 10 months with over 1500 posts. I mean, look at the very small number of views this post has gotten since you moved it. I therefore submit that stuffing this thread off in the "General Add-On Affairs" forum totally defeats the purpose of this thread. None of its intended recipients will ever see it now. Please move it back.

Thanks.

[Superfluous J]

Also: I opened a new tab for each mod I used, and gave rep to everybody one at a time until the forum wouldn't let me. It told me on some of the people (with multiple mods) that I needed to spread the love around and for the rest it told me that I could only give so much rep every 24 hours.

Today, I gave more rep to more people, but ran out of points again

Tomorrow I'll hopefully finish, unless I can't give points to Blizzy because I use like 4 of his mods

[Tw1]

To whichever mod moved this thread into here:

Why did you do that? This thread isn't about a mod or mods, or modding tools, trends, or techniques. It was addressed to the general KSP community at large to discuss a community-wide issue. Therefore, I posted it in the general KSP discussion so it would be visible to all community members. Please return it there.

Thanks.

Agreed. It's a case of missing the point.

[stupid_chris]

I'm not the one who moved it, but things go where they go. This is a discussion about mods/modders, and so it belongs here.

[Justin Kerbice]

This is a discussion about mods/modders, and so it belongs here.

Not really true.

Or it will make any kind of general talks about mods a community "taboo"

[Talisar]

As someone who has put out a couple of small part packs, I'd be the first to say that getting rep from users is very welcome. However, even more useful to me personally would be a quick comment giving specific feedback about the mod in question, especially around the WIP/Initial release time and around major updates. Whether it be about something you like or dislike about the mod, and specifically why you feel that way.

I don't have a huge quantity of rep points, but of the ones I've received the majority were in response to answering questions rather than having anything to do with the parts I've made (and that's fine, and more than appreciated). Recognition is a wonderful thing, but more direct feedback would generally be extremely helpful. Especially if you can tell me why you like or dislike something. Letting us know when you especially like some feature and why would be great too. The tendency, of which I am extremely guilty of as well, is for people who are generally happy with a mod to not comment beyond a quick "that's great" response. It also helps balance out the critical feedback from people who are displeased with something (which is also good feedback, but can be a bit disheartening sometimes when that's all you get)

tl;dr - Rep is great, but feedback is great

[regex]

I'm not the one who moved it, but things go where they go. This is a discussion about mods/modders, and so it belongs here.

This is a terrible place for this post and you know it. Get someone on this. I'm reporting the OP as being in the wrong section.

[frizzank]

I'm more concerned with my mods individual rating on spaceport. The number of votes vs download don't seem to be related at all, and the way it tracks the number of downloads changes depending on whether im logged in or not?

[blizzy78]

The number of votes vs download don't seem to be related at all, and the way it tracks the number of downloads changes depending on whether im logged in or not?

Better stop trying to wrap your brain around it

[Talisar]

Aside from a total download count (which seems to change as you mentioned) I don't really feel that I gain any useful information from spaceport at all. For example, my most recent version of the spherical tank pack has a 5-star rating. But it tells me it has 12.8K downloads and 5 votes. Those numbers combined are useless to me, unless I assume that 5 people liked the pack so much they downloaded it 2,500 times each. I'm actually leaning toward just using Mediafire or something like that instead of spaceport in the future, as some other modders have taken to doing.

-edit: Upon consideration, I see that we're starting to veer off the path of the original purpose of the thread.... Back to giving love to modders!

[Justin Kerbice]

I assume that 5 people liked the pack so much they downloaded it 2,500 times each.

you just kill me :D:D:D:D:D:D

It could also means only 5/12800 people take 2 sec to add a rating.

Be careful, mediafire downloads count is just the number of time download page is displayed, not the actual count of succesfully downloaded files (dumb web devs).

[FEichinger]

This is a terrible place for this post and you know it. Get someone on this. I'm reporting the OP as being in the wrong section.

How is "General Add-on Affairs" a terrible place for a thread about mods and modders? I get that you like complaining about "nobody ever looks there!", but at the end of the day it's not our fault people don't go to the proper sections, it's the fault of the very people who refuse to post their threads in the right place. There are a lot of flaws with our forum structure and I'd love to see some proper restructuring at some point - and there sure are some threads I don't think belong into a given section clearly enough for us to move them from wherever else they were posted - but in the bulk of cases when this complaint about "burying a thread" is brought up the thread very clearly belongs into the section it was moved into.

That said, repeat offenses of "Move this back to General Discussion for views!" requests will be considered backseat moderation as per our [thread=30064]Community Rules[/thread]. If people were posting in the correct sections to begin with rather than taking a huge dump on General Discussion, maybe there'd be more traffic in those sections as well.

---

As for Spaceport - let's all just agree that it's a terrible mess, makes little sense most of the time and a replacement is underway. Until that replacement hits, we're pretty much stuck with a broken barely functional system that simply will not be updated any further.

[regex]

How is "General Add-on Affairs" a terrible place for a thread about mods and modders?

At the risk of further moderation, I'll say that this thread isn't about mods or modders, it's about community and I consider it to be in the wrong section. This isn't the latest "feel-good about using MechJeb" circle-jerk thread, it's about respecting people who spend their free time entertaining us.

[DMagic]

There doesn't seem to be much consistency in what does and doesn't get rep. And rep giving sometimes seems to be contagious, with one post or small thread generating a dozen rep comments while other threads can be updated over and over again without getting any response.

I seem to get much more rep for tutorials/q&a and from my CPU thread than from my mod work. But I don't care so much about rep when it comes to mods. Having replies, feedback, and questions is much more valuable than having more little green bars.

Having a reliable download count would be nice too. When signed in at Spaceport my DL count seems to make sense, a burst of downloads after updating before tapering off slowly over two or three weeks, but the fact that it changes when you sign out, and the general unreliableness of Spaceport makes me doubt either number.

Though I think I'm also guilty of inconsistent rep giving. The only place that I reliably give out rep is when people send results for my CPU thread. I even went back and sent rep to everyone who had contributed after they changed the rep system; it took two or three days because of the limits on giving.

Edited April 30, 2014 by DMagic

[avivey]

The 'give rep' would give a much more real signal it it was publicly shown on the actual post/thread/something that it came from - like facebook's "likes": "Alice, Bob, Eve and 54 others gave rep for this post."

It drives rep giving, surfacing the feature, and makes users more "accountable" for the reps they give.

I'm not sure if vBulletin actually supports this, though, or if it's actually important.

[CaptainKipard]

It's going to take me about a month to rep everyone responsible for the mods on my list. I just hit the cap for the day. I think rep isn't that big of a deal in itself but it can help motivate people.

By the way this thread is obviously about players' actions and attitudes, not modders. We're not playing two degrees of separation here are we?

Edited April 30, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[Red Iron Crown]

The 'give rep' would give a much more real signal it it was publicly shown on the actual post/thread/something that it came from - like facebook's "likes": "Alice, Bob, Eve and 54 others gave rep for this post."

It drives rep giving, surfacing the feature, and makes users more "accountable" for the reps they give.

I'm not sure if vBulletin actually supports this, though, or if it's actually important.

xda-developers (cell phone hacking site) has this feature, but I'm not sure what forum software they use. Though instead of rep they call it "thanks".