The Open Part Mod - Week 2 Voting Started!

[Justin Kerbice]

Well if you're ignorant of it, then "honest" is not how I'd characterise your assessment that it's a "hack job". To each their own, and brutal criticism is absolutely fine by me, but try to make it constructive and coherent. That sentence about the "original design" was just weird and unhelpful. It's your subjective imagination; You should be more objective.

Anyway here's my criticism. I voted for Ven because while his textures weren't top quality they were good enough to fit with the stock textures. He also made the model look reasonable considering the purpose of the part. I would have voted for tygoo7 but his model has exposed batteries, which is an odd thing to have in space, and a functionless antenna. Ven's part doesn't have many extraneous bits.

For what is worth, this contest is just about learning and sharing various idea around one single feature idea. So a "mere box" with a good texture (perhaps the details may have been modelled too) is as fine as the "crazy" living creature made by snjo, especially knowing this case is the most realistic devices made, with the one by LandTLS, knowing how deep space can be hazardous to even the strongest materials.

This is not "do as complicated as it is possible to do" contest, isn't' it ?

[Moon Goddess]

My reasoning on part design. To me in terms of realism LandeTLS's certainly strikes me as the most realistic, but has a "feel" closer to AEIS, or some of the other realism mods, too realistic not stock alike is pretty jarring to me.

For a good mix of realism but still fitting into the look and feel of the game, Ven really nails that. It really looks like a part Squad might make.

As someone who put batteries on her part, I totally gotta defend that decision. Yeah, exposed batteries, (especially something that seems to be a D cell) would be beyond stupid on a real spacecraft but since the actual stock battery parts from Squad themselves have the exact same thing, so I think that totally trumps realism.

[TouhouTorpedo]

Voted for Nazari because nostalgia.

Same, Kid of the 80's here. Grew up with Knight rider on tv!

[Talisar]

I voted for Nazari as well. The part I was making had a similar effect with more of a "Cylon" feel, but I was too occupied with other projects to make it look good.

Ven and Moon Goddess were my close runner-ups. Ven's has a great overall look to it, and Moon Goddess' submission is very kerbal

[landeTLS]

Heheh. I was a kid in the 90s and i still remember those cheezy knight rider reruns with great nostalgia. I remember even my 6 year old self thought that speed mode thing where the gazillion lights would pop out and somehow make kit go faster was really silly, but still.. soo so awesome

[CaptainKipard]

.... but since the actual stock battery parts from Squad themselves have the exact same thing, so I think that totally trumps realism.

I knew someone would bring up Squad batteries eventually. Yeah it fits with stock but lets be honest; that's a really low bar for comparison. To me "stock-alike" is just a euphemism. It's a shame people buy into it. This is getting a little off-topic.

[Talisar]

I knew someone would bring up Squad batteries eventually. Yeah it fits with stock but lets be honest; that's a really low bar for comparison. To me "stock-alike" is just a euphemism. It's a shame people buy into it. This is getting a little off-topic.

I disagree. One of the points of these contests by my understanding was to help people learn to make successful mods for KSP. In my experience, one of the very first posts you are going to see after any new part is posted is going to be either "I like the stock-alike look" or "could you make the texture more stock-alike". There is always going to be a large portion of people who want their parts to conform to a relatively unified aesthetic.

The main problem is that "stock-alike" is very subjective. For example, from your own sig I would personally call your contribution to last week's contest very stockalike. Your universal docking ports fit nicely alongside stock parts as well. But anything from Simian Endeavors has a rather jarringly different aesthetic, and that will likely keep quite a few people from even downloading it. That's not to say they're not well done, or useful, just that they look very different. The same goes for your contribution this week. I actually really like the look of it, but paired with stock (and stock-alike) parts, it looks like it came from a different game.

Personally, I'm not a big stickler for stock-alike parts. If something looks good, I'll probably download it and find a use for it. But a lot of people won't, and you have to keep your customer base (if you'll forgive the metaphor) in mind when designing, especially if you want it to have wide appeal.

[blackheart612]

Eh, well, we have our own opinions, as Kipard sees it like that, he is right. As we all see matching the stockalikes with either texture or structures, we are right too. We have our own opinions and our own customer base. Despite mods being for everybody, we couldn't please everybody. Personally, I like the improved stockalike style which I see seldom but that's fine. And I voted for LandeTLS because the color scheme is stockalike and the model is cool

[CaptainKipard]

@Talisar, that's all true what you said, but it doesn't actually contradict my post, in fact it proves my point.

I tend to go for more realistic mods like FASA or KW or Blackheart612's Squad re-texture, so I'll just continue doing my own thing, and hopefully drag KSP kicking an screaming into the 21st century.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Cpt. Kipard

[Talisar]

The only real part that I was disagreeing with was that it was off topic. While I personally agree with you that stock-alike is far overrated, I believe that it is something that should absolutely be considered when designing parts.

[CaptainKipard]

I believe that it is something that should absolutely be considered when designing parts.

You're probably right. It wouldn't be difficult to do either. You'd just need to stop your texture work at some point, export it, call it stock-alike for those that want it, and then continue making it better

[Orionkermin]

@Talisar, that's all true what you said, but it doesn't actually contradict my post, in fact it proves my point.

I tend to go for more realistic mods like FASA or KW, so I'll just continue doing my own thing, and hopefully drag KSP kicking an screaming into the 21st century.

I think for many the cartoony unrealistic style is part of the appeal though. I know it is for me. If this game was about humans and serious rockets doing serious things all the time, I for one would be way less interested. Don't take that as me saying the people who like realistic styles are wrong, that's one of the great things about mods; a wide selection is available to cater to the varying tastes this game brings in. Just keep in mind that style and tone are just as important to a piece as the artistic quality. Just my two cents on the matter.

As far as the contest goes, based purely on artistic quality, I'm quite torn between tygoo7's and Cpt. Kipard's actually. I think both are done well and have good texture quality that make both parts stand out. I actually like that Kip did an enclosed device, and I know that getting good looking paint chipping is difficult, so I like his on these aspects. Tygoo's looks appropriately kerbal and shambled together in the best of ways and I think fits in well with the stock parts. Not sure which I'll vote for yet, I need more time.

Also Snjo and Nazari1382 both made really funny parts that I like, but would not use in a serious fashion for an extended time.

[landeTLS]

For me the term stockalike in texture terms means mainly handpainted details, wear and shading. Even tho it looks cartoony and nonrealistic its a quite difficult aestetic to achieve. It means you cant use any premade textures and need to make it basically from scratch(unless you reuse stock textures). Ao baking + some subtle environement shadow baking helps as a starting point but it is still by no means an easy prospect. With the use of advanced material node setups in blender you can produce cell shader bakes or general freestyle (nonrealistic) effects but this comes out too cartoony to fit in my opinion.

I must confess i didnt have a good idea for my part. I just made it as a practice part and didnt bother fixing the uv map when it was holding me back with my texturing. if i where to redo it (without remaking the mesh) i would remake the uv map and make all the black on the main part grey like the stock probecores. Probably put some labels(a big arrow with a this side up label) and the part name on the side.

Edited May 4, 2014 by landeTLS

[Moon Goddess]

For me the term stockalike in texture terms means mainly handpainted details, wear and shading. Even tho it looks cartoony and nonrealistic its a quite difficult aestetic to achieve. It means you cant use any premade textures and need to make it basically from scratch(unless you reuse stock textures). Ao baking + some subtle environement shadow baking helps as a starting point but it is still by no means an easy prospect. With the use of advanced material node setups in blender you can produce cell shader bakes or general freestyle (nonrealistic) effects but this comes out too cartoony to fit in my opinion.

This, I'm sorry but stock alike is difficult to pull off, I don't know what half those words mean! The idea that to make something look stock alike means just stopping halfway finished is insulting to people like orionkermin, porkjet, sumghai, not to mention the squad employees*. Look there's nothing wrong with preferring more realistic parts, but you'll notice that in my comment I said they're jarring to me, I didn't insult anyone's handy work, there's no reason put anyone down it's just childish.

*my apologizes to any stock alike artists I left out.

[landeTLS]

Im sorry i didnt make my post very informative:P i tend to do that..

I just basically wanted to say that in my opinion both going the realistic way and the stocklike way involve atleast the same amount of skill and work on the part of the modeler.

Btw Nertea is also one of my favourite stocklike modellers:)

Edited May 4, 2014 by landeTLS

[Moon Goddess]

Im sorry i didnt make my post very informative:P i tend to do that..

I just basically wanted to say that in my opinion both going the realistic way and the stocklike way involve atleast the same amount of skill and work on the part of the modeler.

Btw Nertea is also one of my favourite stocklike modellers:)

No, sorry here's where I was the unclear one, I was actually talking about what Capt. Kipard said here

You're probably right. It wouldn't be difficult to do either. You'd just need to stop your texture work at some point, export it, call it stock-alike for those that want it, and then continue making it better

but I quoted you cuz I thought way you said was so important.

[darkside]

For once I made something that I actually like and almost no one else likes it. Could you people send some criticism my way? Be brutally honest, I need to know what is wrong to do it right next time. Maybe I need to give it some time and just look at it with a fresh eye, then I'll see how truly bad it is?

I voted for tygoo7, didn't like his design when he first posted in progress shot without a texture, but his texture really turned it around for me.

[Talisar]

For once I made something that I actually like and almost no one else likes it. Could you people send some criticism my way? Be brutally honest, I need to know what is wrong to do it right next time. Maybe I need to give it some time and just look at it with a fresh eye, then I'll see how truly bad it is?

I don't think it's bad at all, actually. About the only criticisms that I would put forward are that (and this is completely personal preference) that the proportions of the details are a bit large for my taste. I would have made the keypad and things a bit smaller compared to the overall size of the part. Also, I'd probably have made the part as a whole a little smaller as well, about 75% of the current size. The final thing I'd suggest is some weathering or small detail to the texture, to break it up from the flat gray a bit. That last point I have absolutely no room to criticize, however. My texturing is horrible

[darkside]

I don't think it's bad at all, actually.

Thank you, it is a relief.

About the only criticisms that I would put forward are that (and this is completely personal preference) that the proportions of the details are a bit large for my taste. I would have made the keypad and things a bit smaller compared to the overall size of the part. Also, I'd probably have made the part as a whole a little smaller as well, about 75% of the current size.

I went for that style on purpose, because Kerbals have relatively large and clumsy fingers, or at least that's how it seems to me. About the overall size I agree it is too large.

The final thing I'd suggest is some weathering or small detail to the texture, to break it up from the flat gray a bit. That last point I have absolutely no room to criticize, however. My texturing is horrible

But there are some scratches along the edges, should have made them more apparent I guess.

Edited May 5, 2014 by darkside
grammar

[Helix935]

whoa ven's and tygoo7's are almost tied

[Talisar]

Thank you, it is a relief.

I went for that style on purpose, because Kerbals have relatively large and clumsy fingers, or at least that's how it seems to me. About the overall size I agree it is too large.

But there is some scratches along the edges, should have made them more apparent I guess.

And that's the beauty of the process You've established that one of the things that I didn't like so much was a specific design decision on your part (and a good one). Stick with that.

As for the other points that I mentioned (the overall size and texture detailing) if you think they may have merit, you can tweak it a bit. But absolutely try to get more feedback before you make major changes. Don't let any one person other than yourself dictate the direction you take with your part. This is supposed to be fun, after all.

[Robotengineer]

For once I made something that I actually like and almost no one else likes it. Could you people send some criticism my way? Be brutally honest, I need to know what is wrong to do it right next time. Maybe I need to give it some time and just look at it with a fresh eye, then I'll see how truly bad it is?

I voted for tygoo7, didn't like his design when he first posted in progress shot without a texture, but his texture really turned it around for me.

Yours is better than mine. I don't think that anything is wrong with it, a slightly better texture might be better, but as you can see I have a much worse texture. I voted for tygoo7's for the texture as well. Does anyone have any feedback on my part? I would be grateful for some input.

[CaptainKipard]

This, I'm sorry but stock alike is difficult to pull off, I don't know what half those words mean! The idea that to make something look stock alike means just stopping halfway finished is insulting to people like orionkermin, porkjet, sumghai, not to mention the squad employees*. Look there's nothing wrong with preferring more realistic parts, but you'll notice that in my comment I said they're jarring to me, I didn't insult anyone's handy work, there's no reason put anyone down it's just childish.

*my apologizes to any stock alike artists I left out.

That's just a strawman. I didn't say that stock-alike means stopping half way, what I was saying was about my own texturing process. There's a subtle difference there that renders the whole "insult" point moot. When I have people telling me that my submission last week was stock-alike, then that proves my point. I put a lot less effort into the textures than I did this week. I even said as much in this week's development thread.

Now even if I had said what you thought I said, then your point isn't a great one considering the increasing quality of textures with every KSP update. The KSC buildings are a perfect example, as are the ARM parts. There's a huge difference in quality between the 3.75m tanks for example and the Rockomax X200-16 Fuel Tank. Have a look at the texture files. Given that disparity we can also argue about what "stock-alike" even means. I'm not sure anyone really knows. Clearly if everyone has their own interpretation of the phrase, then it's a bit meaningless. I have my own meaning, which is based on the end result, and not on the process like landeTLS said. You "this-ed" his post but difficulty is irrelevant. Textures aren't being made better simply by virtue of being difficult to do. Difficulty is an emergent quality of an action, it's not causal and it's not necessarily correlated with goodness.

Some stock textures were clearly just phoned in and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. Even the devs have admitted it.

Finally accusing someone of being insulting or rude is the last bastion of an untenable position. Ideas stand or fall on their own merit.

For once I made something that I actually like and almost no one else likes it. Could you people send some criticism my way? Be brutally honest, I need to know what is wrong to do it right next time. Maybe I need to give it some time and just look at it with a fresh eye, then I'll see how truly bad it is?.

Speaking technically, I think if you'd made your edges hard it would have looked a lot better. Smoothing something without regard for face angles makes models look bad. Your texture is a bit flat too. Other than that there doesn't seem a lot wrong with it. Don't think of it as bad. It's just a stepping stone to something good.

Speaking subjectively I'm not a fan of greebles, unless they look like they have a purpose. I also don't like features that are out of place, like a keypad on a part designed for de-orbiting stages. Those are just personal preferences though.

[Talisar]

Does anyone have any feedback on my part? I would be grateful for some input.

My cue! And my usual disclaimer, please keep in mind that everything here is completely personal opinion, and should be treated as such.

I like the simplicity of your design. I has a very utilitarian feel to it. As you mentioned, the texture could use some work (and as I constantly point out, I should be the last person saying that). For me, it seems a bit too symmetrical. Most of the components are centered vertically and equidistant from each other and the edges. The antenna helps a bit, but I would have shrunk the red button (light?) a bit and moved it to one side and then placed something on the other side. Keypads and batteries seem popular, but it could be something as simple as an access panel or sign added through texturing. There are also a lot of sharp, perpendicular edges, which adds to the symmetry.

I should also mention that I seem to be offering a lot of criticism in this thread, especially for someone who has yet to make an entry in the contest. I'm hoping to spark some discussions and encourage others to offer feedback, but feel free to tell me to back off.

[landeTLS]

O mememe..Id like some critique on my part toooo:P