[0.90] TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (v1.50 - 2014-12-24 10:40 UTC)

[Biotronic]

Thanks for the neat plugin! I noticed that the curse page has not been updated with the 1.18 version, and since the 1.18 was mentioned several days ago I thought I was point it out in case it was an oversight.

Thanks again for your work!

Thanks! I admit I dislike Curse's system - here on the forum I can instantly link to the updated version on dropbox, while Curse requires moderation of files, which apparently only happens during a 15-minute window in (what's to me) the early morning. Hence, Curse gets less attention from me than does this forum thread.

Add to that my Chrome has decided it dislikes Curse, and I have to start Firefox to upload there, and you have a recipe for (very small scale, without explosions) disaster.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Biotronic

[Biotronic]

Just noticed a possible correction to make for future version of the NFT tweaks you included (thank you!): the SM-2, SM-3, and SM-4 adapter things should have a default scale of 1.25 rather than 2.5 in order for the size description to match the actual part - cheers!

Oops. Fixed in next version.

Quick question too - any chance of electrical output of NFT reactors (and radiators, if they don't already) scaling with size in a future update to facilitate launching absolutely massive and ridiculous powerplants?

Also fixed in next version.

[Biotronic]

First of all thank you for this great mod. VAB/SH categories are much less crowded now but I believe that with KSP 0.24 release approaching, implementing contracts and actual value to the already present ingame currency, tech tree support for scales should be a priority or this mod will become some kind of cheat.

Since you insist. 1.19 includes tech requirements.

[Biotronic]

Hm. Two things:

• Should techRequired support the syntax techRequired = advRocketry = 5, heavyRocketry = 3.75 for when you only want to specify a few techs? This would likely be the way to specify freeScale techs should I get around to implementing that. (techRequired = start = 75..125, advRocketry = 25..75, heavyRocketry = 125..200, e.g)
  
• defaultScale needs to be unlocked by default, as things are. That shouldn't be a problem, but in the event that people want the default version to be available at reduced or increased scale, but not the default scale, the plugin currently gets confused.
  

[petros_a_l]

Why don't you use swamp_ig's way

MODULE
{
    name = ProceduralPart

    TECHLIMIT
    {
        name = start
        diameterMin = 1.0
        diameterMax = 1.5
        lengthMin = 1.0
        lengthMax = 1.5
        volumeMin = 1.0
        volumeMax = 1.5
    }
}

with scale max and scale min. It is pretty easy to understand and edit as you like.

[Biotronic]

Because I wasn't aware of it, I guess. However, that works well for freeScale, not so well for stack, surface and other scaletypes where there's a list of options. I guess I'll have to think it over a little more.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Oops. Fixed in next version.

Also fixed in next version.

Awesome, thanks! Time to send a massive, 5m-wide uberreactor up to my station...

[ShimmyTheJJ]

Not sure if this is intended, however, from my brief experience with this mod, it appears that drag is being scaled incorrectly. For example, the terminal velocity of a craft with a MK1 command pod 1 jumbo X64 Orange fuel tank and a default sized Mainsail is ~ 100 m/s @ launch altitude. Scaling tank and engine up to 5 meters is ~ 60 m/s. This causes acceleration to peak quickly and drop down to ~1.06 G even with a TWR being significantly higher.

Installed version 1.19

I am not using FAR, only some visual and GUI mods.

[Dirt_Merchant]

I have seen on github where the saved craft breaking issue has been reported. I just wanted to let you know I've also had this issue, and will be sending an output.log your way as soon as I can.

[camlost]

The problem seems to be with RF. With RF6+TweakSable1.19, When I start a vessel with a part with RF, I can tweak it, save it, but cannot load it correctly. When it's loaded KSP doesn't know which is root part and the title becomes "vessel name". Cannot fly it either, as it starts somewhere in the space instead of on the ground.

When I start with a vessel without any part with RF, it seems fine. Reverting to 1.9 everything's fine too.

[Runescope]

I've just recently tried out this mod, which I love BTW. One part in the list, but multiple sizes to choose from. This should be standard!

On that note, I've got a problem with my Kethane Large Drills. They appear freakin GINORMOUS! I mean at scale zero, they take up almost the entire VAB.

I looked through the previous messages, but I couldn't find a mention of this.

Any ideas of how to get them down to their proper size? As far as I can tell, it's just the Large Drills. I've tried everything else, and that's the only things that appears out of proportion.

cheers!

[gardocki]

I'm running into issues with scaling most of the KW Rocketry engines as well as a few of the stock Squad ones. It could be a problem with DLL versions but I haven't managed to nail it down. Anybody else run into this?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Found another thing for you to fix, Biotronic! On the RLA tanks (I haven't tested the engines yet), scaling up to 1.25m doesn't resize the attach node. The other scales update fine, just not the 1.25m one

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Also, how's the adapters coming along? I coulda sworn it was real, but apparently it was a dream: adapters could be scaled, but only to sizes that worked out (the green boxes in your table). You say you can limit the rescales, why not disallow rescales that end up in the red? At least for now, I mean.

P.S. did I really have a dream about building something in KSP? Yeesh...

EDIT:

On that note, I've got a problem with my Kethane Large Drills. They appear freakin GINORMOUS! I mean at scale zero, they take up almost the entire VAB.

have you made sure your TweakScale is up to date?

Edited June 10, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Runescope]

have you made sure your TweakScale is up to date?

Huh, that is very weird. I have made sure my TweakScale is up to date, I've actually totally removed it and the Kethane and put them back in and the problem is still there.

Could it be a conflict with the goodspeed part scaling?

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Noticed what may be a problem... With only Engineer, MFT 5.0.1 and TweakScale 1.19 installed, tanks do not scale in mass correctly when you attempt to change any MFT values. I tried fiddling with scale exponents, but could not figure out how to get it to scale correctly.

Example: A Rockomax X200 scaled to 5m should have exactly 4x the fuel (and overall 4x the mass) of a Rockomax Jumbo-64.

If you (only) put the part in the VAB and TweakScale it, size, mass, resources all scale correctly.

As soon as you use the MFT interface to remove tanks/add tanks/whatever, which is necessary in order to get the values displayed by MFT to read out correctly, weird things happen. In this scenario, tanks do not maintain the same wet/dry mass ratio (becomes something like 3:1 when scaled to 3.75m, and 2:1 when 5m). Final mass becomes 128 tons dry/256 tons wet at 5m, instead of 16 tons dry/144 tons wet, which is what happens if you ONLY TweakScale the part. Engineer tells me this is indeed the mass of the tank, so not just a weird readout problem.

Don't actually know what's going on, of course, but It *seems* that only the mass of the fuel (but exactly twice as much as it ought to weigh) is taken into account in the new mass of the tank. The dry mass is what the fuel ought to weigh, and the wet mass then somehow becomes the dry mass + the actual fuel in the tank, so 2x what just the fuel ought to weigh... The value of the original dry mass of the tank doesn't seem to enter into the equation.

In all cases, actual fuel volume of the tank (amount of LFO you can put in it) does scale correctly, though.

If you scale it back to original size, it regains appropriate masses and ratios of masses.

Since I don't know how most of this stuff actually works: is this a TweakScale issue? Is this some problem with MFT that it just can't handle rescaled stuff?

Millionth edit: Also discovered that if you use MFT to edit the tank while it is normal sized (not TweakScaled yet) and then use TweakScale to increase the tank's size, all the values scale accordingly. So apparently it's only if you want to modify the tank's tanks AFTER it's been TweakScaled that things go haywire...?

Edited June 11, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[sirkut]

Huh, that is very weird. I have made sure my TweakScale is up to date, I've actually totally removed it and the Kethane and put them back in and the problem is still there.

Could it be a conflict with the goodspeed part scaling?

Tweakscale replaced goodspeed part scaling. Refer to: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/72567-0-23-5-Goodspeed-Aerospace-Parts-v2014-4-1B?p=1022669&viewfull=1#post1022669

Last edited by Gaius; 14th May 2014 at 03:10. Reason: Updating thread title to reflect TweakScale being forked into its own thread with new maintainer

[andrehsu]

There seems to be a mod compatibility bug. This incompatibility bug has several symtons:

1. The cubic strut in the editor has two scrollers. One reads the 1.25m but does nothing when moved, and the other says**not found**

2. When going to the flight mode after editor, the ships winds up somewhere in space, with the prograde, retrograde and everything in one direction

3. After returning from flight, the vessel name then become "vessel name" and the flag is changed into a picture of a kerbal

I have a lot of mods, so it's rather a hassle trying to isolate the problem

[Apollo13]

Biotronic, this has become a MUST HAVE for KSP for me. Along with Kerbal Alarm Clock and MechJeb, EditorExtensions, and kData. For me, all other mods are nice-to-have.

[marce]

Biotronic, this has become a MUST HAVE for KSP for me.

Agreed. However, I'm missing the three-times-a-day update cascades. I love updates

[Absolute Human]

Great mod! However, I'm writting to tell about a small issue, which I discovered (apart from the engine exhaust FX not scaling)

Here you can see it:

The attachment nodes, that should be "small" (size one) are "little" (size 0). All other attachment nodes sizes seem to match.

Keep up the good work!

[BudgetHedgehog]

Great mod! However, I'm writting to tell about a small issue, which I discovered (apart from the engine exhaust FX not scaling)

Here you can see it:

http://i.imgur.com/FLM0W2e.png

The attachment nodes, that should be "small" (size one) are "little" (size 0). All other attachment nodes sizes seem to match.

Keep up the good work!

Have you noticed it with tanks other than the RLA ones? Because I made a post about this, on the previous page. Just wondering if its unique to RLA..

[Biotronic]

Biotronic, this has become a MUST HAVE for KSP for me. Along with Kerbal Alarm Clock and MechJeb, EditorExtensions, and kData. For me, all other mods are nice-to-have.

Agreed. However, I'm missing the three-times-a-day update cascades. I love updates

Thanks a lot to both of you. I've been a bit busy lately, and will be for at least the next week, so nothing will happen before then.

But worry not, I... Wait, I got a signal coming in...

Great mod! However, I'm writting to tell about a small issue, which I discovered (apart from the engine exhaust FX not scaling)

Here you can see it:

http://i.imgur.com/FLM0W2e.png

The attachment nodes, that should be "small" (size one) are "little" (size 0). All other attachment nodes sizes seem to match.

Keep up the good work!

Yeah, that's a result of me just throwing together some code to make the nodes work relatively more sensible than before. (I've had nodes with size 400. Not pretty.)

New algorithm for rescaling attach nodes in 1.20.

- - - Updated - - -

Have you noticed it with tanks other than the RLA ones? Because I made a post about this, on the previous page. Just wondering if its unique to RLA..

It should happen to anything with a defaultScale of 0.625. Well, not no more, but the way things were.

Oh, and while I remember - I added scaling to stock adapters in 1.20.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Biotronic

[Apollo13]

Found this interaction issue between TweakScale and Mission Controller Extended. I've reported it to the MCE mod-maker; so, I'll report it here as well. MCE is a contract and budget mod; when KSP 0.24 arrives, MCE will mostly go away. Mostly.

When I scale MechJeb, the cost of the vehicle skyrockets. Note the cost of "Control & SAS". This vehicle is a stock MK1 Command Pod with MechJeb. This problem does not manifest itself with other parts.

[BigD145]

Found this interaction issue between TweakScale and Mission Controller Extended. I've reported it to the MCE mod-maker; so, I'll report it here as well. MCE is a contract and budget mod; when KSP 0.24 arrives, MCE will mostly go away. Mostly.

When I scale MechJeb, the cost of the vehicle skyrockets. Note the cost of "Control & SAS". This vehicle is a stock MK1 Command Pod with MechJeb. This problem does not manifest itself with other parts.

http://i.imgur.com/r01hFij.png

This is an old problem with MCE that had something to do with the weight of mechjeb. TweakScale might be rounding to 0.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Quick question - is there any documentation for the massFactors values used especially in things like scaletypes? Is 0 0 1 for volume, and 0 1 0 for surface area, or 1 0 0? What do the values correspond to? I'm attempting to rewrite things like LLL and B9 scales and create a scaletype for cargo bays (and other hollow parts) so they aren't ginormously heavy when scaled up. Couldn't find much of anything except 0 0 1 massFactors in the many cfgs I perused.