Solar FREAKIN' roadways discussion

[HafCoJoe]

This is a discussion about this video but also about the concept of solar FREAKIN' roadways.

Do you actually think this is possible? Do you think its worth it?

[Tex]

Possible? Absolutely. I've seen the original video, and now I'm hooked.

[razark]

Nice concept.

How durable is it? Can it handle actual heavy usage? How well does it handle extreme weather? Can it withstand blizzards and hurricanes? Massive flooding? How long will it take to get this installed, and how much will it cost? Can production keep pace with new installations and maintenance of previously installed roadways? Who is going to pay for it? How long will it take to "pay for itself"? How will this affect the economy here? How will this affect the economy of nations that base a large portion of their economy on oil?

There's a lot of variables that need to be taken into account before one can say if it's worth it.

[Deathsoul097]

Nice concept.

How durable is it? Can it handle actual heavy usage? How well does it handle extreme weather? Can it withstand blizzards and hurricanes? Massive flooding? How long will it take to get this installed, and how much will it cost? Can production keep pace with new installations and maintenance of previously installed roadways? Who is going to pay for it? How long will it take to "pay for itself"? How will this affect the economy here? How will this affect the economy of nations that base a large portion of their economy on oil?

There's a lot of variables that need to be taken into account before one can say if it's worth it.

Well, they are actually talking about that. Look at some of the more recent tech articles from I ******* Love Science, and the IFLS website, they talked about it.

Considering that they think it could provide enough power to provide for the entire US, I think that it will pay for itself the minute it goes live.

[Flymetothemun]

Nice concept.

How durable is it? Can it handle actual heavy usage? How well does it handle extreme weather? Can it withstand blizzards and hurricanes? Massive flooding? How long will it take to get this installed, and how much will it cost? Can production keep pace with new installations and maintenance of previously installed roadways? Who is going to pay for it? How long will it take to "pay for itself"? How will this affect the economy here? How will this affect the economy of nations that base a large portion of their economy on oil?

There's a lot of variables that need to be taken into account before one can say if it's worth it.

I agree. I'm feeling kinda fishy about the video though, after all, it's made by the guy who's raising money for this project. It feels like a propaganda piece, it only mentions positives and sells the idea without mentioning potential negatives. I'd like to see, before he goes all "Let's replace every road in America with this!", some small parking lots in a few different regions and climates replaced with this technology to see if it will really be worth it. I think it should prove itself in the real-world and have real-world statistics to base calculations off of, it seems like he's running off ideal conditions/maximum output and/or data from a single region and climate. I'd also like to see what it can do with mud, snow, dirt and all the other substances that roads accumulate smeared all over it. I'm all for lowering bills and helping the environment, but this seems like a case of rose-tinted spectacles and the bandwagon effect.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Flymetothemun

[vger]

All I can think of is how pathetic those solar garden lanterns get after just one year in the cold..

[Deathsoul097]

I agree. I'm feeling kinda fishy about the video though, after all, it's made by the guy who's raising money for this project. It feels like a propaganda piece, it only mentions positives and sells the idea without mentioning potential negatives. I'd like to see, before he goes all "Let's replace every road in America with this!", some small parking lots in a few different regions and climates replaced with this technology to see if it will really be worth it. I think it should prove itself in the real-world and have real-world statistics to base calculations off of, it seems like he's running off ideal conditions/maximum output and/or data from a single region and climate. I'd also like to see what it can do with mud, snow, dirt and all the other substances that roads accumulate smeared all over it. I'm all for lowering bills and helping the environment, but this seems like a case of rose-tinted spectacles and the bandwagon effect.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what is happening. Also, the panels are waterproof and have inbuilt heaters (Or were they lamps?) to melt snow.

[KvickFlygarn87]

I'm hooked!

[Justy]

I THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA. I'M NOT YELLING. I'M JUST PRACTICING TALKING OVER THE ROAD NOISE AS MY TIRES ROLL OVER ENDLESS MILES OF RUMBLE STRIP AT HIGHWAY SPEED.

But seriously... we can't manage to keep bridges and tunnels in good enough repair that they won't collapse, the idea of building roads from discrete tiles that requires someone come along and re-tighten the bolts every few months is scary. And of course they won't wear evenly and we'll have uneven edges between tiles, just as we do now with the concrete blocks that make up I-5 and I-90 in Washington State, only now it'll be a mini-speedbump every one and a half feet instead of 20 feet.

I really wish I could like this idea, but I can't.

[lajoswinkler]

One bull**** in the neverending stream of bull**** from IFLS website. They can sell these fairytales to kids, not adults who remember stuff. I've been around for some time and this is not a new concept. Almost every 6-7 years there's an equally stupid idea being recycled and, because most people have fish brain memory capabilities, it's advertised as something new.

[R0cketC0der]

This goes into my wlithawotwipbdts-list(would-love-if-this-happened-and-worked-out-the-way-it's-planned-but-dont-think-so-list).

[vger]

One bull**** in the neverending stream of bull**** from IFLS website. They can sell these fairytales to kids, not adults who remember stuff. I've been around for some time and this is not a new concept. Almost every 6-7 years there's an equally stupid idea being recycled and, because most people have fish brain memory capabilities, it's advertised as something new.

*coughspidermancough*

Yeah, it's getting pretty scary that Hollywood can reboot an IP in less than ten years. Nobody will ever have to write a story again.

I still kinda hope they test it. I want to see what a $50,000 pothole looks like.

[HafCoJoe]

I don't see this covering all of America, but I do picture a street somewhere in DC being coated in this...

[vger]

I don't see this covering all of America, but I do picture a street somewhere in DC being coated in this...

Vegas. Make the sections of the entire strip light up whenever tires come in contact.

[HafCoJoe]

Vegas. Make the sections of the entire strip light up whenever tires come in contact.

Or that.

Question. Is your name referring to Star Trek by any chance?

[vger]

Question. Is your name referring to Star Trek by any chance?

Indeedy...

[Vonar]

Meh, this idea is cool but at the same time rather Naive. No government in this era of austerity except for maybe the Chinese would foot the bill for a massive public works project based on a untested technology, and I'm pessimistic in general on Solar power. Really the only sustainable power source in development that has the potential to change the world for the better in the intermediate future is Fusion power, and Fusion power exploited at the commercial level is still 30 to 40 or so years away.

[HafCoJoe]

Really the only sustainable power source in development that has the potential to change the world for the better in the intermediate future is Fusion power, and Fusion power exploited at the commercial level is still 30 to 40 or so years away.

That and more Hydroelectric power I think. Though the majority of places dams for energy could be put I think have already covered.

[vger]

That and more Hydroelectric power I think. Though the majority of places dams for energy could be put I think have already covered.

I've heard of a variant of wind farms that could be constructed on seabeds, harnessing power from oceanic currents. No idea if this is still on anyone's drawing board now. The environmentalists probably had a mad cow before anyone could even determine what the repercussions might be.

[Streetwind]

I THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA. I'M NOT YELLING. I'M JUST PRACTICING TALKING OVER THE ROAD NOISE AS MY TIRES ROLL OVER ENDLESS MILES OF RUMBLE STRIP AT HIGHWAY SPEED.

But seriously... we can't manage to keep bridges and tunnels in good enough repair that they won't collapse, the idea of building roads from discrete tiles that requires someone come along and re-tighten the bolts every few months is scary. And of course they won't wear evenly and we'll have uneven edges between tiles, just as we do now with the concrete blocks that make up I-5 and I-90 in Washington State, only now it'll be a mini-speedbump every one and a half feet instead of 20 feet.

I really wish I could like this idea, but I can't.

This.

I do not want to drive on a road built with those panels. Ever. I would go out of my way to drive around it, and I would in fact go out of my way to convince my local administration to stay the hell away from it. It is an utterly awful idea to have a road surface that is not macroscopically smooth, especially on highways. What in the world were they thinking? Not only will this cause immense noise pollution, which is just as much an environmental hazard as exhaust fumes are (to both nature and humans alike), it will also make traveling on these roads an aggravating chore. For bicycles too, by the way. And have you ever walked a long distance on cobblestone and then stepped back on smooth dirt or tarmac? Yeah... Oh, and it causes increased wear on your tires too, flushing more rubber dust than usual into the environment with every rainfall or gust of wind (such as those created by cars driving fast), and require you to replace tires sooner, which costs you money. Shocks and springs, too. And whatever else may come loose in your car by rattling it constantly over dozens of thousands of miles. And I hope you don't want to transport anything that doesn't like being shaken.

Then there's the fact that producing solar cells is an incredibly pollution heavy process, and cheap cells have awful efficiencies of under 10% even without covering them with a thick sheet of uneven glass. And integrated heating elements? How are they supposed to keep the road from freezing over at night, if there's no sun? Why, batteries of course. Which is another pollution heavy production process - it's been estimated, for instance, that every first generation Prius' battery caused more pollution in production alone than the vehicle could ever have hoped to save during said battery's expected operational lifetime. Because yes, batteries have a limited lifetime. Solar panels do too, by the way. You need to replace them regularly. Not every 20-30 years like tarmac, but every 2-3 years. And neither batteries nor solar panels are easily recycled.

I am all for the argument of turning the vast areas of tarmac surface humanity has created into something that does more for us even as it just sits there. The proposal at hand here may well create a lot of power, I'll give it that. But it will a.) make using roads utterly, disgustingly aggravating, no matter your choice of travel; b.) not actually reduce environmental pollution, just shift it around; c.) be economically and logistically a nightmare to both implement and maintain on any sort of large scale.

Sorry guys, nice try, but the downsides are just too varied and severe.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Streetwind

[Aghanim]

Discuss pros and cons here, I will try to compile all of it here

Its sad that the hydrogen thread is derailed for several page because of that

I will try to keep neutral as when fusion is ready this whole discussion will be moot, but since fusion developers adopts the same time scale as Valve there is a need for some technologies to fill in the gap

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aghanim

[Moon Goddess]

Pros: There's a lot of roads.

Cons: This is pie in the sky,

Unproven technology

Far more expensive to install than simply covering the roofs of buildings with solar panels,

It's cute but foolish.

[N_las]

I see no reason to put solar cells into the road. What is the advantage of that? Are the solar cells more efficent because they are in the road rather than on a roof? Do the roads work better if solar cells are in them?

[KvickFlygarn87]

I see no reason to put solar cells into the road. What is the advantage of that? Are the solar cells more efficent because they are in the road rather than on a roof? Do the roads work better if solar cells are in them?

Unused space. That's why.

[Seret]

Pros:

Microgeneration of clean electricity at a local level.

Already co-located with support infrastructure.

Generates an income.

Integrates heating for cold climates.

Integrates signalling or marking into road surface.

Cons:

High upfront cost.

Reliability is unproven.

Safety under real traffic conditions is unproven.

Many roads are not ideally oriented for solar generation, especially in city centres with shading issues.

Not clear if they'll be available from more than one supplier (what parts of the design are protected?).

The panels are flat, which could be an issue for drainage and camber.

I'm sure there's more of both, but those are the ones that leap to my mind.