Beale Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well, some problems with the gimbals behaving crazy (they look really cool when rolling, however!)... But, success I think.The fairings are just me having some fun, I don't think to include them.My only grievance now is the decoupler, which is... A colour mistake.BurnoutThe heat fades away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Flok Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks!MK1 replacement, that's supposed to be the LK! But, I was thinking about the Energia Lunar lander, at some point...For me LK has always been an addition but not a replacement. Just looked up Energia lunar lander, Nice command capsule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borisperrons Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Bravo, Beale! As a British space program fanboy myself, I salute you!Black King?http://puu.sh/ih208/95cee34ede.jpgTo be honest, this is quite the British backup design for the Europa: in case the French couldn't deliver the Coralie second stage in time, they planned to use a Black Arrow first stage as stand in. That's why the engineers of the Queen lowered themselves to give the measures for that stage in inferior metres instead of the good ol' imperial units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) The balancing proves a little problematic...Though the tanks have correct fuel amounts and masses compared to stock tanks, the engines are weighted to stock engines - The Black Arrow is still able to send the Prosperous on a solar escape trajectory (just barely).Edit: this is 1.0 Aero settings, to clarification.Might not be a huge problem when considering the tiny weights of that payload. But... The lipstick rocket manages in the region of 7.5k DV.Still, it's fast become my favourite small rocket.For me LK has always been an addition but not a replacement. Just looked up Energia lunar lander' date=' Nice command capsule! [/quote']That's probably a better wat to see it, to be fair the LK is quite a bit larger than the mk1, and I guess it seats two Bravo, Beale! As a British space program fanboy myself, I salute you!To be honest, this is quite the British backup design for the Europa: in case the French couldn't deliver the Coralie second stage in time, they planned to use a Black Arrow first stage as stand in. That's why the engineers of the Queen lowered themselves to give the measures for that stage in inferior metres instead of the good ol' imperial units.I'm surprised to see fans coming out of the woodwork, I thought this would be the most obscure craft I've ever done!Many thanks!I won't comment on the Metric vs. Imperial thing But it was an interesting experience modelling in different measurements. Edited June 9, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeguy868 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks!MK1 replacement, that's supposed to be the LK! But, I was thinking about the Energia Lunar lander, at some point...Very nice! You will make more science points in a single Mun trip than I will across a whole career Many thanks!Here is the first stage engine, eight nozzles.I may add some more piping and such, but it's already quite complex - eight nozzles is not easy to set up the gimbal.http://puu.sh/ihljA/254d9a88da.jpghttp://puu.sh/ihlmA/5d705b354e.jpgThe tough thing about LEK (the Energia lander, actually launched on Vulkan, basically Energia on steroids) is that it doesn't rendezvous in Kerbin orbit. The crew module is two part, an outer shell as a habitat for the lander crew going to the lunar base on the surface, and an inner 3-man command pod for reentry. When it reenters, the outer shell burns away, leaving only the inner descent module. That might be tough to pull off. I do it with part clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtquarquesso Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Well, I tried my hand at a retexture, and the results were mediocre at best. I am no artist.For the probe and drogue, a color change of the thermal blanketing isn't terribly helpful. In the catalog, it's just too difficult to make out. Also, it would require more texture space, which on the crew sheet, is pretty scarce. On the APAS port, it definitely helped, and was clearly visible in the catalog. I used the same texture as is on the Mir docking module. I just couldn't get it to look right. It only really helps if the texture is applied to not only the docking port face, but also to some of the inside rim. The inside rim unfortunately shares the same bit of the sheet as part of the top of the crew capsule, so unless it's remapped, it can't really be done. It was still interesting to play around with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tg626 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Does anyone have an up to date patch for Antenna Range / Tantares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyrocon Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 do the engines still shrink if they are the root part in the most current version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tg626 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 do the engines still shrink if they are the root part in the most current version? The Pavonus nose cone does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The balancing proves a little problematic...Though the tanks have correct fuel amounts and masses compared to stock tanks, the engines are weighted to stock engines - The Black Arrow is still able to send the Prosperous on a solar escape trajectory (just barely).Edit: this is 1.0 Aero settings, to clarification.Might not be a huge problem when considering the tiny weights of that payload. But... The lipstick rocket manages in the region of 7.5k DV.Still, it's fast become my favourite small rocket.What are the ISps? I suspect that you made the engines too efficient. Such a rocket should manage 1-2 tons to LKO, no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Well, I tried my hand at a retexture, and the results were mediocre at best. I am no artist.http://i.imgur.com/xwiFTZ9.pnghttp://www.spacefacts.de/graph/drawing/drawings2/iss-03_pirs.jpgFor the probe and drogue, a color change of the thermal blanketing isn't terribly helpful. In the catalog, it's just too difficult to make out. Also, it would require more texture space, which on the crew sheet, is pretty scarce. On the APAS port, it definitely helped, and was clearly visible in the catalog. I used the same texture as is on the Mir docking module. I just couldn't get it to look right. It only really helps if the texture is applied to not only the docking port face, but also to some of the inside rim. The inside rim unfortunately shares the same bit of the sheet as part of the top of the crew capsule, so unless it's remapped, it can't really be done. It was still interesting to play around with.The separate colours are quite nice I have to admit.Any pics of the APAS you mention? I have a general idea of what you mean and can try to replicate.Does anyone have an up to date patch for Antenna Range / Tantares?I'm getting RemoteTech up to date with some recent help, but that's not quite what you're after As for antenna range, sadly none that I know of.do the engines still shrink if they are the root part in the most current version?I've been fixing a few of the models, so it will happen less - but, it will still happen for a few parts, sorry What are the ISps? I suspect that you made the engines too efficient. Such a rocket should manage 1-2 tons to LKO, no more.This might be the problem, though I wanted the engines to be competitive once you're further in the tech tree.Anyway!The stats"Warden" (Gamma 2)Mass = 1Thrust = 147ISP = 92 - 339"Regent" (RZ-2)Mass = 1.685Thrust = 877ISP = 290 - 345"Arrow" (Gamma 8)Mass = 1.4Thrust = 654ISP = 311 - 367The Gamma 8 stands out as being slightly too efficient! I'll play around.But, you can play around yourself, if you desire! Here'sBLACK ARROW / PRINCE BetaA few small bugs I'm aware with:Prospero's solar panels are not implementedMissing vernier engines. Edited June 9, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenant503 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The stats"Warden" (Gamma 2)Mass = 1Thrust = 147ISP = 92 - 339"Regent" (RZ-2)Mass = 1.685Thrust = 877ISP = 290 - 345"Arrow" (Gamma 8)Mass = 1.4Thrust = 654ISP = 311 - 367No way!Those puppies were from the Paraffin/peroxide age. If any of those systems had an ISP greater than 270 its because someone had their finger on the scales.also if you've tried to match tank volumes or sizes, they've got effectively 9 times the scale volume of the real ones (the real ones using an ISP of about 260 on a good day had to find 10km/s to orbit, a rocket fired from the KSC needs about 3.5Km/s)you can either play with the size, play with the tankage, or play with the ISP, or just put it out and personally I'll do what I do with your other rockets and use them as my launch vehicle Lego because really like your models, but violently disagree with some of your Launcher figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Okay, so:- No FX (I presume you know this)- All the engines are too light for their size. Double the weight- All the engines again: Thrust is kinda high (mainly for Arrow and Regent), which leads to excessive TWR. I suggest a 20-25% cut- Tanks looks OK when comparing to stock- Arrow: it's too efficient, look at 2.5m stock (280-320 for Skipper, for example)- Regent: Again, it's too efficient (Isp 345 is too high for 1st stage engine)- Warden: Aside from its weight, it looks OKAll in all, Arrow and Regent should be balanced against Skipper and Mainsail; Warden is somewhat of a "super-Terrier", but its weight is too low.Prospero: the only thing here is that it's impossible to place things between solar panels with angle snap on (see screenshot). Not sure if it can be fixed at all without re-modeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) No way!Those puppies were from the Paraffin/peroxide age. If any of those systems had an ISP greater than 270 its because someone had their finger on the scales.also if you've tried to match tank volumes or sizes, they've got effectively 9 times the scale volume of the real ones (the real ones using an ISP of about 260 on a good day had to find 10km/s to orbit, a rocket fired from the KSC needs about 3.5Km/s)you can either play with the size, play with the tankage, or play with the ISP, or just put it out and personally I'll do what I do with your other rockets and use them as my launch vehicle Lego because really like your models, but violently disagree with some of your Launcher figuresIt's true, it's true ( Though technically these engines run on whatever liquid fuel is ).I'm a little between the devil and the deep blue sea when it comes to the elderly rockets - I can make them less efficient (Like the V2's engine), but then they are totally useless when other engines become available. I like the way stock engines are balanced (or how they are intended to be balanced) where no particular part is objectively better than another part (though they might have different uses).Okay, so:- No FX (I presume you know this)- All the engines are too light for their size. Double the weight- All the engines again: Thrust is kinda high (mainly for Arrow and Regent), which leads to excessive TWR. I suggest a 20-25% cut- Tanks looks OK when comparing to stock- Arrow: it's too efficient, look at 2.5m stock (280-320 for Skipper, for example)- Regent: Again, it's too efficient (Isp 345 is too high for 1st stage engine)- Warden: Aside from its weight, it looks OKAll in all, Arrow and Regent should be balanced against Skipper and Mainsail; Warden is somewhat of a "super-Terrier", but its weight is too low.Prospero: the only thing here is that it's impossible to place things between solar panels with angle snap on (see screenshot). Not sure if it can be fixed at all without re-modeling.http://i.imgur.com/9HxJGb7.jpgAck! Forgot to include the FX - I say it's quite good looking! (I've uploaded a fixed version).Many thanks you for the feedback! These will be fairly simple alterations Only 4K DV with the Prospero seems quite low, the part itself is only 210kg - It's accurate to IRL, but I'm not sure how much I want to go for that.Prospero symmetry - that's unfortunate... It's true. I was planning Prospero's "legs" that could be placed with 4x symmetry - that might not be so easy. Edited June 9, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrisK Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 No way!...but violently disagree with some of your Launcher figures...violently......violently......violently...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It's true, it's true ( Though technically these engines run on whatever liquid fuel is ).I'm a little between the devil and the deep blue sea when it comes to the elderly rockets - I can make them less efficient (Like the V2's engine), but then they are totally useless when other engines become available. I like the way stock engines are balanced (or how they are intended to be balanced) where no particular part is objectively better than another part (though they might have different uses).Ack! Forgot to include the FX - I say it's quite good looking! (I've uploaded a fixed version).Many thanks you for the feedback! These will be fairly simple alterations Only 4K DV with the Prospero seems quite low, the part itself is only 210kg - It's accurate to IRL, but I'm not sure how much I want to go for that.Prospero symmetry - that's unfortunate... It's true. I was planning Prospero's "legs" that could be placed with 4x symmetry - that might not be so easy.4k Atmo dV for a first stage of two-stage rocket without any cargo except 0.2t satellite core is low? Man, it seems that you take this "must be extra-useful in any circumstances" thing too far.Also, don't look at MJ's atmo dV readings - these are for ASL. MJ is to be believed only when it comes to vacuum dV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) 4k Atmo dV for a first stage of two-stage rocket without any cargo except 0.2t satellite core is low? Man, it seems that you take this "must be extra-useful in any circumstances" thing too far.Also, don't look at MJ's atmo dV readings - these are for ASL. MJ is to be believed only when it comes to vacuum dV.Oh!Apologies on me, I didn't realize that was for the first stage only! Yes, that's all in order then!Also - I will guess the Waxwing is not strictly needed, as nice as it would be. Edited June 9, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Oh!Apologies on me, I didn't realize that was for the first stage only! Yes, that's all in order then!Also - I will guess the Waxwing is not strictly needed, as nice as it would be.By the way, it means that this rocket can achieve orbit using 1st stage only, and you'll have some fuel left. Even if you add decoupler and fairings for Prospero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pTrevTrevs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 That's why the engineers of the Queen lowered themselves to give the measures for that stage in inferior metres instead of the good ol' imperial units.As an American, I think that it would be easier for us as a country if we used Metric. My physical science teacher once summed up the differences between Metric and Imperial by saying, "The Metric system makes sense, the Imperial system doesn't."But I have also heard, "There are two kinds of nations in this world, those who use Metric and those who have landed on the Moon" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 By the way, it means that this rocket can achieve orbit using 1st stage only, and you'll have some fuel left. Even if you add decoupler and fairings for Prospero.I'm generally okay with this, based on the fact that Kerbin isn't Earth and orbital velocity is much lower.Given also, you can reach orbit with something like this:As an American, I think that it would be easier for us as a country if we used Metric. My physical science teacher once summed up the differences between Metric and Imperial by saying, "The Metric system makes sense, the Imperial system doesn't."But I have also heard, "There are two kinds of nations in this world, those who use Metric and those who have landed on the Moon"Liberia and Myanmar have landed on the Moon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third_OfFive Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 As an American, I think that it would be easier for us as a country if we used Metric. My physical science teacher once summed up the differences between Metric and Imperial by saying, "The Metric system makes sense, the Imperial system doesn't."But I have also heard, "There are two kinds of nations in this world, those who use Metric and those who have landed on the Moon"Well, landed on the moon, and... lost several multi-million-dollar space probes, solely because of confusion caused by the imperial measurement system. Just saying, to whoever wrote that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pTrevTrevs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Well, landed on the moon, and... lost several multi-million-dollar space probes, solely because of confusion caused by the imperial measurement system. Just saying, to whoever wrote that..See, I told you it would be better for America to use Metric. Engineers must cringe to think of the idiotic mistake that caused the demise of that... That, uh... The name of the spacecraft has completely slipped my mind.As for Liberia and Myanmar landing on the Moon, don't tell anyone, it's a secret.EDIT: Ah, yes, it was the Mars Climate Orbiter. Edited June 9, 2015 by pTrevTrevs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoff123 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Liberia and Myanmar have landed on the Moon?Lol. I am also an American, and i would much rather use the metric system over imperial units. Some people say it's "culturally significant" that the US differs, but thats ridiculous. It would just avoid confusion internationally. Plus, foot-pounds of force just sounds stupid.Anyways.... Really loving the Prospero and the black arrow! I second those DV and ISP overpowered comments as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm generally okay with this, based on the fact that Kerbin isn't Earth and orbital velocity is much lower.You shouldn't. It would be "Okay" if the whole rocket has said 4-4.5k of dV. If the first stage has 4000+ dV ASL and the second has more than 3K in vacuum, this is not "Okay", this is "I wanted to make a rocket for RSS, but somehow it ended in stock". In other words, it's badly balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 You shouldn't. It would be "Okay" if the whole rocket has said 4-4.5k of dV. If the first stage has 4000+ dV ASL and the second has more than 3K in vacuum, this is not "Okay", this is "I wanted to make a rocket for RSS, but somehow it ended in stock". In other words, it's badly balanced.I don't know, you can cobble something similar in stock:I'm not really sure what to do... I guess it is best to keep in mind the Black Arrow and Prince are bigger here relative to their IRL counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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