[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [27.0][18.05.2024][VA Revamp]

[Omega482]

So is anyone else having problems with the V-ODA Backup Antenna? I can't seem to deploy it...

Going to poke around a bit more and see if I've accidentally broken it.

Edit: Screenshots one, two and three

Edited October 13, 2014 by Omega482

[Beale]

Come to think of it, we DO need a proper Vostok.

Three parts, sitting at the Start tech node.

Sharik: 1-man pod, weight around 1-1.2t. Design: same as Tantares orb, but with circular hatch like Alnair. CoM offset (to enable a proper ballistic reentry), DRE-capable (full surface coating). No reaction wheels (or maybe very weak, 0.1 torque or even less). Built-in parachute (Or just move Tantares parachute to the Start node. Or a new chute, based on Tantares). Small ECharge (no more than 30).

PO module: Weight around 2-2.5t. Design: look at my screenshot. Has reaction wheels and decent ECharge (around 200). Built-in LF\OX tank. Built-in Sharik decoupler on top. Can also be used as satellite bus (Vostok was designed as spy satellite platform, and was used in that capacity (as Zenit) until 1994).

PO engine: Small and very inefficient (no more than 500 m\s of dV when used with PO module - you can do some basic orbital maneuvers and braking burn, but no Mun missions).

It should be rather inexpensive, as it meant to be an alternative to Mk1 pod.

I agree! This sounds like a neat little project to do if you have time/interest Beale

Very nice write-up here, mind if I steal it?

There's definitely a place early in the tech tree (I.E. start) for a Tantares craft.

The only question is how "little" this little project is, eh?

Vostok is a really quite intricate looking ship despite its supposed simplicity and age.

Thanks for putting all this together, really has persuaded me to give Vostok a proper look!

Also, you know what, the thought of animating the "venting" on the service module, that would be awesome!

So is anyone else having problems with the V-ODA Backup Antenna? I can't seem to deploy it...

Going to poke around a bit more and see if I've accidentally broken it.

Edit: Screenshots one, two and three

I have had no issues so far on a vanilla install, can I ask if you have any mods installed?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beale

[captainradish]

There has been one Vostok released, but the internals were screwed up, it was intended for use with Bobcat's rockets (too large for 1.25m), and it was never updated to use the techtree. Home Grown Rockets has a spherical orbiter in the same vein, but doesn't have the accouterments.

Another thing to possibly build is the Voskhod capsule which was Vostok's successor. Really the two are rather similar, but Voskhod was a two-manned capsule and was designed to parachute to Earth rather than have the Cosmonauts eject from it like the did from Vostok. KSP is rather lacking in two-manned capsules, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_(spacecraft)

The only issue is that the Soviets used and reused the same designs over and over and over, making a Soviet program a tad bit boring.

Edited October 13, 2014 by captainradish

[captainradish]

Tantares and HGR are similar projects, but HGR is built to utilize it's own 1.85m rocket size and doesn't fit very well on either 1.25m or 2.5m. The 1.85m stuff is also a bit overpowered IMHO.

I wouldn't mind seeing this turn into an updated (sort-of) version of Bobcat's Soviet pack. That was done really really well but it was way OP for when you got the parts in the tree and were built to only be put together a certain way. I like the way things are done here where my Salyut station can have a section added to in the middle, for example. I would really like to see a bit more station parts as the only mod I have found that does Soviet style space stations is the KOSMOS mod and it's horribly obsolete and hard on the RAM.

That being said, this mod has become one of my permanent mods for when I do re-installs.

[BLUAV8R]

Hey Beale, so i'm finding a bug that when i'm building my salyut stations, I go to build and once I add the V-C1 part (the one you just made a science lab), trying to right click on it breaks my right click, for all parts, and nothing shows up

Once I leave the VAB or click "new craft" it works but once I right click the V-C1 it breaks again...

Im trying to find out what the log file is saying now. It might be a bug with tweakscale/tweakableeverything/or the KSPAPIExtensions.dll? Testing now

[Beale]

That being said, this mod has become one of my permanent mods for when I do re-installs.

Very nice to hear, thankyou

Tantares and HGR are similar projects

I see this a lot, but... They aren't really that similar, right?

We share the stockalike Soyuz, but that's about it.

Hey, if you can spare the RAM, I advocate using both!

I do agree with the need for some more modular parts (I.E. space station stuff).

Hey Beale, so i'm finding a bug that when i'm building my salyut stations, I go to build and once I add the V-C1 part (the one you just made a science lab), trying to right click on it breaks my right click, for all parts, and nothing shows up

Once I leave the VAB or click "new craft" it works but once I right click the V-C1 it breaks again...

Im trying to find out what the log file is saying now. It might be a bug with tweakscale/tweakableeverything/or the KSPAPIExtensions.dll? Testing now

Is that so?

Damn, I thought that tricky bug was squashed...

I am using KSAPIExtensions, but not tweakescale, it works for me.

I will probably remove scienceLab module as unfortunately it is very problematic it seems.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beale

[captainradish]

Now that you mention it, yea, it's just the Soyuz that's the same.

Not to sound like a brown-noser, but your stuff is better quality (and is much more modular).

[impwarhamer]

Is that custom launch site part of the mod?

[biohazard15]

Very nice write-up here, mind if I steal it?

Glad you're like it

Another thing to possibly build is the Voskhod capsule which was Vostok's successor. Really the two are rather similar, but Voskhod was a two-manned capsule and was designed to parachute to Earth rather than have the Cosmonauts eject from it like the did from Vostok. KSP is rather lacking in two-manned capsules, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_(spacecraft)

The only issue is that the Soviets used and reused the same designs over and over and over, making a Soviet program a tad bit boring.

Voskhod is a basically Vostok with a small retrorocket and 3-man crew (w\o spacesuits), and Voskhod-2 is the same thing plus inflatable airlock (and 2-man crew). Moreover, after 2 flights it was deemed too dangerous (because it lacked any LES) and was terminated in favor of Soyuz.

Boring maybe, but it's also less expensive and reliable, which is more important

[Beale]

Now that you mention it, yea, it's just the Soyuz that's the same.

Not to sound like a brown-noser, but your stuff is better quality (and is much more modular).

Ah, many thanks!

The SoyJuice is very pretty, though.

Is that custom launch site part of the mod?

It is a separate mod: Kosmodrome!

Glad you're like it

Voskhod is a basically Vostok with a small retrorocket and 3-man crew (w\o spacesuits), and Voskhod-2 is the same thing plus inflatable airlock (and 2-man crew). Moreover, after 2 flights it was deemed too dangerous (because it lacked any LES) and was terminated in favor of Soyuz.

Boring maybe, but it's also less expensive and reliable, which is more important

You know just now a BBC documentary has passed on the Vostok + Voskhod program, it has gotten me a bit interested!

Voskhod could be a natural evolution of Vostok mod (Especially with that new crew transfer function!, transfer into the airlock, EVA).

So, here is my ideas on the matter.

Rough Mockup

First thing you will notice, a heatshield area. This is a choice as KSP doesn't handle ballistic capsules all too well. A falling part under parachute where there is no offset just "floats" strangely, not rotating under parachute stress, etc (Anyone remembering my first release of the VA capsule may remember this).

When it comes to Voskhod... Well, there's no way three are going to fit here, it is 1.25m like the Soyuz capsule. It may even be tricky (but I'm sure possible) to get two Kerbal in there comfortably.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beale

[Guest]

The real Voskhod had the same problem, BTW. 3 Cosmonauts were awfully hard to fit at all, much less "comfortably". They had no spacesuits, either, because the thing was so cramped.

[Beale]

The real Voskhod had the same problem, BTW. 3 Cosmonauts were awfully hard to fit at all, much less "comfortably". They had no spacesuits, either, because the thing was so cramped.

True point.

Two Kerbals will not be so much a problem, it turns out. The capsule is only little smaller than the Tantares OM, which can seat 2 kerbals (or could before I nerfed it to 1 seat).

[biohazard15]

You know just now a BBC documentary has passed on the Vostok + Voskhod program, it has gotten me a bit interested!

Voskhod could be a natural evolution of Vostok mod (Especially with that new crew transfer function!, transfer into the airlock, EVA).

So, here is my ideas on the matter.

Rough Mockup

http://puu.sh/cb9Sa/821433e31c.jpg

http://puu.sh/cb9Tz/7714bff985.jpg

First thing you will notice, a heatshield area. This is a choice as KSP doesn't handle ballistic capsules all too well. A falling part under parachute where there is no offset just "floats" strangely, not rotating under parachute stress, etc (Anyone remembering my first release of the VA capsule may remember this).

When it comes to Voskhod... Well, there's no way three are going to fit here, it is 1.25m like the Soyuz capsule. It may even be tricky (but I'm sure possible) to get two Kerbal in there comfortably.

Great Sharik!!!

And yeah, Voskhod-1 was a very uncomfortable ship. It was designed as 2-man pod, but Soviet government pushed constructors into making it 3-man.

[captainradish]

Yay! I'm such a trendsetter!

I do love the Soviet space program. Being from the US it doesn't get much credit here. The idea of using the same basic rockets for fifty years straight (Soyuz and Proton) is apparently abhorent to NASA.

[Reichtangle]

I think that the voskhod is slightly larger than the Vostok.

[captainradish]

According to Wikipedia, it's the same outside diameter. I think the Soviets just stripped a lot of interior out in order to stuff three men into it.

Also, could we maybe expect a rocket to go along with it?

Edit: Here's an interesting article that talks about how they used the airlock on Voskhod-2 (http://www.wired.com/2013/01/gemini-extravehicular-planning-group-1965/)

Edited October 14, 2014 by captainradish

[biohazard15]

According to Wikipedia, it's the same outside diameter. I think the Soviets just stripped a lot of interior out in order to stuff three men into it.

Also, could we maybe expect a rocket to go along with it?

Edit: Here's an interesting article that talks about how they used the airlock on Voskhod-2 (http://www.wired.com/2013/01/gemini-extravehicular-planning-group-1965/)

Hmm, I second that. It would be nice to get a basic Vostok\Voskhod-type R-7 at the Basic Rocketry node. Main size is 1.25m; 1st stage going from 1.25 to 0.675 (see pic). Also, a custom fairings for Vostok would be nice (with its distinct "window", which is actually a hatch for cosmonaut. Would be pretty cool to use with FASA launch tower)

Might be used in three variants:

- Sputnik: Core stage and four boosters - capable of putting a small (under 1 ton) satellite to orbit.

- Vostok\Voskhod: 2nd stage added, capable of putting Vostok on orbit.

- Soyuz: Improved 2nd stage, capable of putting Tantares or Hamal to orbit.

EDIT: Forgot the pic

Also, a very important thing: if you ever decide to make it, please design it in a such way that boosters would expend at speeds more than 750 m\s. Because radial decouplers bug, yeah.

And more on Sharik design: Beale, leave it as it is - simple, streamlined design. Which is Vostok actually was - a heavy metal ball with Gagarin inside (BTW, there is anecdotal story about Yuri - he is credited with phrase "I don't know who I am - first man or the last dog". That says many things about Vostok and its design)

Edited October 14, 2014 by biohazard15

[Lexx Thai]

And one little tip - hatch in the "Vostok" placed in front of the window. And in IVA the window placed between kosmonaut's legs.

On this picture windows shown by #10.

[Niemand303]

1st stage going from 1.25 to 0.675 (see pic).

I'd vote for having 1.25 going to 1.875. Or having both sides 1.25m with a thick section in the place where booster tops are.

[biohazard15]

And one little tip - hatch in the "Vostok" placed in front of the window. And in IVA the window placed between kosmonaut's legs.

http://spacenet.h1.ru/vostok/vostok.jpg

On this picture windows shown by #10.

To clarify: there is two windows on Vostok (as shown at the picture). The hatch is located over the head of the cosmonaut (#15, although on the site is picture from #15 refers to Sharik itself, not to its hatch). Lower #10 is an orientation system window:

I'd vote for having 1.25 going to 1.875. Or having both sides 1.25m with a thick section in the place where booster tops are.

Would be interesting (with 1.875 and ProcFairings you can get a streamlined fairings for Tantares\Hamal). Although, it would make little sense for people that doesn't use PF or FAR\NEAR (yeah, I too ask "why?" )

Edited October 14, 2014 by biohazard15

[Lexx Thai]

Another good picture of "Vostok"

[Beale]

And more on Sharik design: Beale, leave it as it is - simple, streamlined design. Which is Vostok actually was - a heavy metal ball

Thanks for a lot of the info

That's the plan, plain-ish ball (Well it has the kind of two-tone paint job) with a bit of wear about it.

And one little tip - hatch in the "Vostok" placed in front of the window. And in IVA the window placed between kosmonaut's legs.

http://spacenet.h1.ru/vostok/vostok.jpg

On this picture windows shown by #10.

I have:

Kerbal is sitting facing the Y axis (green).

Has two windows on left and right.

The hatch is above his/her head.

I'd vote for having 1.25 going to 1.875. Or having both sides 1.25m with a thick section in the place where booster tops are.

I would agree with these sizes also, the adapters from 1.875m exist now, so it is not uncharted territory as it was for TKS.

Another good picture of "Vostok"

http://epizodsspace.narod.ru/bibl/getlend/d9.jpg

Thank you for these images.

Also, a very important thing: if you ever decide to make it, please design it in a such way that boosters would expend at speeds more than 750 m\s. Because radial decouplers bug, yeah.

An annoying bug!

Worst comes to worst I could make separation rockets.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Beale

[biohazard15]

Worst comes to worst I could make separation rockets.

Sadly, but they will hardly help - you'll get erratic separation, which still can hurt your rocket if separatrons are placed wrong. The best way to deal with this bug is to use sepratrons with Tweakable Everything - set decoupler force to 0 and let sepratrons do all the job.

[captainradish]

How does Bobcat's Soyuz do it? It does the proper "Korolev cross."

One thing I would stress is to NOT start mirroring Bobcat. His parts are very very good, but are designed to go together in a certain way with certain other parts. They are not modular in the least. That would be one of the few criticisms I would have with a Vostok/Voskhod/Soyuz rocket.

[biohazard15]

How does Bobcat's Soyuz do it? It does the proper "Korolev cross."

One thing I would stress is to NOT start mirroring Bobcat. His parts are very very good, but are designed to go together in a certain way with certain other parts. They are not modular in the least. That would be one of the few criticisms I would have with a Vostok/Voskhod/Soyuz rocket.

I don't use Bobcat Soyuz, so I don't know Maybe they're custom-tailored to overcome the bug. Soyuz-style boosters from NP also could do Korolev cross before 0.24; now they can't, if your speed is lower than 750 m\s.

ALV and NovaPunch K1 also designed to go together, but they allow some degree of free use (especially the engines). I don't see why is (projected) Tantares-Soyuz (TLV?) parts can't be used on any other design. For example: strap NovaPunch or KW SRBs instead of Soyuz LRB. Or strap Soyuz boosters to a 5m KW or NP 1st stage.

Edited October 14, 2014 by biohazard15