[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [27.0][18.05.2024][VA Revamp]

[billbobjebkirk]

Korolev is spinning in his grave right now.

That's probably how they got enough torque to control the rocket.

[biohazard15]

That's probably how they got enough torque to control the rocket.

You've just discovered the truth behind the KSP's reaction wheels.

Would you please look right there:

[Beale]

Your N1 beta,

http://i.imgur.com/gplKB0c.jpg

is puppy approved

Daaw, This is all I can hope for.

"The Chief Designer could not be reached for comment."

http://imgur.com/a/BZzX9

You're not allowed to do this again. I'm banning it.

Just kidding, It's cool in a mad way.

They do that just alright - it's just thrust I'm talking about. Block A should be more in-line with Block B - around 1.60 start TWR, and around 2.5 max TWR with designated payload (35-40 tons).

I'll try lower Block A to around 6000kN, maybe change its ISP a little

Castor Resisto Jet Mk5

Nobody asked for this.

256x256 texture.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

mk5? Is it a replacement for the last Castor or a different size? does it have xenon mode like the RLA resistojet?

EDIT: it seems I was ninja'd by a beale edit

Edited February 20, 2015 by passinglurker

[billbobjebkirk]

mk5? Is it a replacement for the last Castor or a different size? does it have xenon mode like the RLA resistojet?

It's a replacement to use less RAM-intensive textures

[Beale]

mk5? Is it a replacement for the last Castor or a different size? does it have xenon mode like the RLA resistojet?

It's a replacement to use less RAM-intensive textures

BillBobFella has got it right, just a revamp to save memory space (1024 to 256).

It actually now fits a 0.625m node, so it is a different size.

I guess I can do the bi-modal thing

OLD

Big, bad!

NEW

Small, good!

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[Tapejara]

Castor Resistoject Mk5

Nobody asked for this.

256x256 texture.

http://puu.sh/g5pdR/50b94ee66d.jpghttp://puu.sh/g5peV/cf6fc96d9f.jpg

I like the concept of the Resistorjet, but I've honestly never used it before...

Though I'm sure I can force myself to, if you will insist on updating it

[Beale]

I like the concept of the Resistorjet, but I've honestly never used it before...

Though I'm sure I can force myself to, if you will insist on updating it

Hehe!

Well, it currently sits a bit awkwardly in between the Nuclear engine and the ION thruster, not being better than either.

I need to revisit the balance and give it some niche.

[hoojiwana]

I need to revisit the balance and give it some niche.

This is partly why I made mine Bi-modal. In Xenon mode it's a less efficient but higher thrust electric engine, and it's also one of two monopropellant electric engines as well (the other being the Arcjet which is even less unique). If you wanted to differentiate from mine, you could have different thrust, ISP, single-propellant rather than bi-modal or different electrical requirements. Or even increase the size again to 0.9375m.

It's a shame the base game doesn't have a hydrogen-analogue for use as a propellant, it would make things much more interesting. You could have a very high ISP hyrdrogen resistojet with that, or "proper" NTRs and even a more accurate part set for ABL. Plus it would be great for the upcoming resource system.

EDIT: Have you got it in game yet? I'm curious as to how the Castor compares to the Bi-Modal one.

Edited February 20, 2015 by hoojiwana

[jpkerman]

Fantastic work. I am sure the original designers would have loved to have had this ability to simulate the design in real life.

Not to be OT, but is .16 the current release? I am waiting for the two crew capsule IVA and am hoping my DL is not corrupt.

Thanks 1 millionx100000 for your efforts.

[Beale]

This is partly why I made mine Bi-modal. In Xenon mode it's a less efficient but higher thrust electric engine, and it's also one of two monopropellant electric engines as well (the other being the Arcjet which is even less unique). If you wanted to differentiate from mine, you could have different thrust, ISP, single-propellant rather than bi-modal or different electrical requirements. Or even increase the size again to 0.9375m.

It's a shame the base game doesn't have a hydrogen-analogue for use as a propellant, it would make things much more interesting. You could have a very high ISP hyrdrogen resistojet with that, or "proper" NTRs and even a more accurate part set for ABL. Plus it would be great for the upcoming resource system.

EDIT: Have you got it in game yet? I'm curious as to how the Castor compares to the Bi-Modal one.

The Vasimr-alike dual thrust modes is actually really interesting!

But, you are right, a Hydrogen analogue would be great. We'll have to see what RoverDude comes up with (There could be a stock "hyrdogen" resource that's a ingredient to produce LFO).

A straight up comparison:

Mine suddenly looks a bit dull

FX is bad! I need to fix this.

Fantastic work. I am sure the original designers would have loved to have had this ability to simulate the design in real life.

Not to be OT, but is .16 the current release? I am waiting for the two crew capsule IVA and am hoping my DL is not corrupt.

Thanks 1 millionx100000 for your efforts.

16 is current, yep

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[hoojiwana]

Mine suddenly looks a bit dull

Mine has a bigger texture than yours (512x512) while being smaller, so its bound to look different. Since yours is bigger, giving it more thrust might be the way to go, with an increased power draw to go with that. The solar panel selection in Tantares is great so you can easily get away with more power draw.

[Beale]

Mine has a bigger texture than yours (512x512) while being smaller, so its bound to look different. Since yours is bigger, giving it more thrust might be the way to go, with an increased power draw to go with that. The solar panel selection in Tantares is great so you can easily get away with more power draw.

A fair point.

Yup, bumping the original thrust from 8 to 10-11 (This feels quite a lot for an electric engine, but it has quite a powerful thirst for the leccy to hopefully count for that).

Or Bi-(thrustal?) mode.

5kN @ 1300 ISP

11kN @ 700 ISP

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

On the subject of the resistojet why not do what porkjet's atomic age mod does and just use pure LF as the hydrogen analog? (yeah I know its unrealistically dense but not everyone is keen on large unwieldy tanks that hold barely any fuel as a gameplay element). There are already pure LF tanks in stock(that seem to assume a totally different density for their contents) and if you added your own LF tanks for this engine they could pull double duty as aircraft parts.(though if do go with the double duty Idea I'd echo what hoojiwana said about upping the size to .9375m. 1.25m is a bit roomy for a kerbal scale mig-15, and as SXT shows .625 is an awkward size for kerbals as there needs to be a bulge in the middle to give enough room for the kerbals arms so in between would be perfect for mig-15-a-likes.)

An alternate idea is to scale it up to 1.875, make it sleeker and mate it with the spektr and its speky-monoprop-tank for thermoelectric scifi goodness

[hoojiwana]

Or Bi-(thrustal?) mode.

5kN @ 1300 ISP

11kN @ 700 ISP

It's a neat idea but that's not really how a resistojet works, unless you possibly tried something like a LANTR (like Porkjet's) where it can switch to using two propellants, where the addition of the second boosts the thrust but reduces the ISP. If you go down that route you can get away quite nicely with it using LF in efficiency mode, and LFO in thrust mode, and that would make it very different to mine.

EDIT: Haha, passinglurker beat me to it!

[Beale]

On the subject of the resistojet why not do what porkjet's atomic age mod does and just use pure LF as the hydrogen analog? (yeah I know its unrealistically dense but not everyone is keen on large unwieldy tanks that hold barely any fuel as a gameplay element). There are already pure LF tanks in stock(that seem to assume a totally different density for their contents) and if you added your own LF tanks for this engine they could pull double duty as aircraft parts.(though if do go with the double duty Idea I'd echo what hoojiwana said about upping the size to .9375m. 1.25m is a bit roomy for a kerbal scale mig-15, and as SXT shows .625 is an awkward size for kerbals as there needs to be a bulge in the middle to give enough room for the kerbals arms so in between would be perfect for mig-15-a-likes.)

An alternate idea is to scale it up to 1.875, make it sleeker and mate it with the spektr and its speky-monoprop-tank for thermoelectric scifi goodness

It's a neat idea but that's not really how a resistojet works, unless you possibly tried something like a LANTR (like Porkjet's) where it can switch to using two propellants, where the addition of the second boosts the thrust but reduces the ISP. If you go down that route you can get away quite nicely with it using LF in efficiency mode, and LFO in thrust mode, and that would make it very different to mine.

EDIT: Haha, passinglurker beat me to it!

More good thoughts!

Hmmm.

I had preferred MonoPropellant for its lower density, which seems to just fit with engines like this (for some reason).

But yep, a LARJ (Lox Augmented Resisto Jet, coined it!), I like that a great deal!

I took it to Ike! Felt barely >1 TWR from the nail-biting landing.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[Kibble]

Typical high-power electric-thermal rocket engines like Arcjets or Resistojets are fueled by hydrazine, ammonia, or a nonreactive gas like xenon. They also have thrust on the order of fractions of a Newton. They also don't generally have very large nozzles compared to chemical-thermal rocket engines. Below is an example of a typical 3.3 kW Resistojet with a maximum thrust of .5 N.

[passinglurker]

isn't that that because their typical application is attitude control and station keeping not interplanetary propulsion? electric engines as a main form or propulsion seems to be tragically rare in human history.

[hoojiwana]

Typical high-power electric-thermal rocket engines like Arcjets or Resistojets are fueled by hydrazine, ammonia, or a nonreactive gas like xenon. They also have thrust on the order of fractions of a Newton. They also don't generally have very large nozzles compared to chemical-thermal rocket engines. Below is an example of a typical 3.3 kW Resistojet with a maximum thrust of .5 N.

Those resistojets are typically used for attitude control and station keeping, much like very small Hall-effect ion engines are also used for. Resistojets are scalable and can theoretically run on anything that can fit through the piping, but it's just not been done since larger scale ion/plasma propulsion is already far more advanced (in terms of Technology Readiness Level). If a resistojet were to be scaled up it would almost certainly use a big vacuum-optimised nozzle.

For thrust, it's much like the way to stock ion is orders of magnitude more powerful than real ones, it's a gameplay thing. Not that the 2 thrust the stock ion currently has is a good idea since it allows for things like Mun landings but that's a discussion for another place.

Edited February 20, 2015 by hoojiwana

[Kibble]

isn't that that because their typical application is attitude control and station keeping not interplanetary propulsion? electric engines as a main form or propulsion seems to be tragically rare in human history.

For interplanetary propulsion you are much better off with solar-electrostatic propulsion, rather than electric-thermal. They tend to be more scalable, higher thrust, and better specific impulse. And I am sure that we'll see a lot more spacecraft propelled by solar electric rocket engines as time goes on, the technology is fairly new.

Only one ion thruster has ever flown as the main propulsion on an interplanetary expedition - NSTAR, one on Deep Space 1, and three on Dawn.

[passinglurker]

For interplanetary propulsion you are much better off with solar-electrostatic propulsion, rather than electric-thermal. They tend to be more scalable, higher thrust, and better specific impulse. And I am sure that we'll see a lot more spacecraft propelled by solar electric rocket engines as time goes on, the technology is fairly new.

Only one ion thruster has ever flown as the main propulsion on an interplanetary expedition - NSTAR, one on Deep Space 1, and three on Dawn.

regardless of whether one is better off there is no reason for us to assume a resistojet can't be scaled up as it is essentially a nuclear thermal rocket with electric heating element in place of uranium fuel rods the only difference in terms of performance is that the resistojet might run at a cooler peak temperature and therefore have less isp because of material limitations, but as long as you can increase the fuel flow through the heating chamber to compensate they can still equal NTR's in terms of thrust.

[Kibble]

as long as you can increase the fuel flow through the heating chamber to compensate they can still equal NTR's in terms of thrust.

The limiting factor is how much heat you can dump into the fuel, a high-thrust resistojet would need truly enormous solar panels to match an equivalent electric-static rocket engine.

[Beale]

The limiting factor is how much heat you can dump into the fuel, a high-thrust resistojet would need truly enormous solar panels to match an equivalent electric-static rocket engine.

For me personally (and I am a very strange person) most of it is just artistic licence.

I wanted an electric engine with a big vacuum nozzle, thus it was made.

I am playing around with the LARJ stats, but I'm not so good with these.

Mass: 3.0

LF/EC

ISP 815

9 kN

LF/OX/EC

ISP 650

18 kN

For the LF/EC, the current ratio is 0.1 LF to 3.8 EC, not sure how this is supposed to work for the augmented mode, where it switches to 0.9 LF, 1.1 OX and remains 3.8 EC.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Beale

[MrSnappyTurtles]

I am getting to IVAs for the Soyuz

[hoojiwana]

I am playing around with the LARJ stats, but I'm not so good with these.

Mass: 3.0

LF/EC

ISP 815

9 kN

LF/OX/EC

ISP 650

18 kN

For the LF/EC, the current ratio is 0.1 LF to 3.8 EC, not sure how this is supposed to work for the augmented mode, where it switches to 0.9 LF, 1.1 OX and remains 3.8 EC.

Honestly I don't even know if using three resources works, it'd be interesting to see! You may want to shoot Streetwind a PM for some help, he's the guy who statted up the Near Future engines so he knows his stuff.