Goodbye, Minmus.

[Bandock]

When I first played KSP, the Mun was the only other SOI you could land on at the time (been playing since 0.13.2/0.13.3). Fortunately, landing on the Mun isn't overwhelmingly difficult. However, it was trickier with winglets (unless you used modded landing legs) as if you landed a little too fast, you will not be able to return home. Landing legs definitely reduce the chance of getting stranded (though landing too fast is still not recommended).

Watching trydyingtolive's video was enough to enable training for Mun landings in the day and it was indeed a successful endeavour.

Now, about Minimus, I say leave Minimus alone as this game takes place in a fictional universe and wouldn't hurt to have two moons right near the homeworld. Even if Minimus is easier to land than the Mun.

[Tw1]

Whats wrong with realism? He isn't asking for realism, he is asking for the games solar system to be modeled after our one. Thats something entirely different.

I agree, they are different things. The main fantasy element comes from the fact that they are an alien species, in a fictional solar system.

Realism is an essential part of this game- it lets you experience some of the difficulties real life space programs have when attempting space exploration. A few more realistic elements would not hurt- but taking away the fantasy elements would.

I wonder about adding a few more delicate shades of mint green and cyan to the mix? Striations on the slopes, perhaps?

This would be cool. One problem with this game is the many of the planets are a little monochromatic.

To me, the terrain scatter forms the chocolate chips.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Tw1

[Commander Zoom]

The OP wasn't really even asking for realism. He wanted to make things harder for new players who have it "too easy" because it exists.

Kod forbid that any part of a game be too easy for new players! Instead of quitting in frustration after repeated failures, they might stick around, stinking up the place with their n00bishness! Some, in their ignorance, might even imagine themselves our equals because of their so-called accomplishment of landing on "the baby moon"! And we can't have that, now can we?

Edited June 3, 2014 by Commander Zoom

[BudgetHedgehog]

You're joking right?

Yes, he is.

[Shna_na]

Can we stop going about realism for a moment?

Thank you.

Kerbal Space Program isn't about realism, as such. It's about learning of the aerospace/aeronautical industry, and sparking an interest in space exploration. Its purpose is to give people a taste of what it's like to run a space program, pilot a spacecraft to new and untouched worlds, create sprawling colonies on other planets, and just generally muck about, all while having the time of your life. Minmus is a critical first step in this process. To eliminate Minmus would be to eliminate the first experiences of many existing players, and to make life harder for the newcomers. Having it there is, for them, their way of teaching themselves. Through landing on Minmus, a new player learns to match inclination, to fine tune an orbit, to land on a body, and most importantly to explore. They also teach themselves how to return from another body, and feel the overwhelming pleasure of knowing what you just accomplished - you just went to a moon, you just did science on an untouched celestial body, and most importantly, you just taught yourself about the dangers and joys of space travel.

If you want to take this experience away from people, I'd say that you are alone on that view. This community is built around exploration and discovery, reinforced by creativity and the want to share, and fueled at its very heart by ourselves - the people who explore this solar system. Minmus is the first stepping stone in this, and the one from which those further ahead pull the others to success and wonder. Minmus is our friend, and our most underestimated companion in the community. It plays a vital role in the advancement of new players and in the binding of the community. To remove it would cause unrest and upset, as players' memories are flicked away like a piece of dead skin.

I say to keep Minmus, for the sake of the community.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Shna_na

[bartekkru99]

I'm tied to the Minimus as one of Kerbbin's moons and it's an integral part of Kerbol system the way it is for now, and it can't be changed or moved in any meaningful way, because most of us, "veteran players" just got used to it. So if you change the Minimus, you just make it disappear as a small cyan dot orbiting Kerbin, that we all know.

[Alchemist]

Minmus is easier to land on, but more difficult to navigate to - it's not too easy, it's more about requiring different skills. Also navigating between Mun and Minmus is a good training for interplanetary flights (not that I really used it...). And landing in such a low gravity is its own kind of fun. (And even if you are having troubles with the Mun, there's nothing terrible about practicing in lower gravity. Except for opinion of the guys who mastered powered landing on Kerbin before there ever was the Mun)

The only real problem is that currently Minmus is some kind of science grinding spot, because multilanding is much easier.

[TheGeoninja]

Actually I use Minmus as my world for screwing around. With its low gravity and its proximity to Kerbin it enables unrealistic projects to take place in sandbox. Also to counter your argument on it being too easy it does require some skill to get there compared to the mun which has no inclination. Flying to Minmus becomes more guess work then anything for a beginner that doesn't factor in inclination which is something I didn't factor in.

[Wallygator]

Considering its a game and not real life, then people can do what they want - regardless of the game situation. Frankly, feel free to use PF to create the Kerbol system you want and go have fun. THAT is the beauty of this game system!

[Tortoise]

Realistic or not, kerbol is its own unique solar system, therefore Kerbin is allowed to have 2 moons. I don't believe it will ever be removed because it woule cause a lot of problems with players that hve stuff on minmua.

And if you want somewhere to go, thats far away amd easy to land on, Gilly has less gravity than minmus.

[Esme]

If the Mun was the only satellite of Kerbin, there's a good chance I'd have given up on the game by now, and I've been playing less than a year. Whilst I'm aware that there are folk who can gather huge amounts of Science in just a few missions, I am not one of them (hey, someone's got to make you look good, no?! :-) ). My personal record is a smidge over 600 points, with my second-best attempt being something over 200 - both on Minmus. The main problems that I face are lack of probes and wheels from the start, so you can't do lightweight probes (which you don't care whether they can get back to Kerbin or not), which are, of course, easier to launch, and rovers, and lack of an easier way to track what you have and haven't done - and importantly - what you have missed thus far. It'd be so nice if, having finally managed to land in one piece on the Mun, that I could then explore some of the rest of it in a rover. Instead one has to do launch after launch after launch trying to land (and praying one won't wreck the ship and kill a Kerbal) of different spots to gain more science just in order to unlock WHEELS, for heavens sake!

Personally, I think the most unsatisfactory thing in the game currently is the tech tree, for that very reason. I don't mind the Mun being as difficult as it is to land on safely, because I know that it CAN be done, with the right experience and ships. But given that it IS that much harder than Minmus, we really ought to be able to use rovers when we get there IMHO, assuming we manage to land one in one piece in the first place. That way one at least has the option to trade patience (driving a rover around) for bravery/ability (multiple Munar landings, or one large ship hopping around the Mun landing multiple times) to a certain extent!

As for realism - there's always mods!

[coolitic]

Keep minmus as it is.

[panzerd18]

If you consider it too easy, consider some players that struggle to get into orbit around Kerbin.

[helaeon]

I like Minmus as a second moon to Kerbin... however... I'm also not a fan of it being the target for the first moon landing.

Personally, I didn't find it early enough to go there because I was so focused on the Mun that I didn't find it until I was thinking about Duna and zoomed out enough to see it.

I think, though, if changes were to be made to Minmus it should be simple things like:

Further out, maybe even closer to the edge of Kerbin's SOI (have to precisely make the burn otherwise you escape) and/or bigger inclination (bring up the Delta-V requirement to get there). Point being trade-offs that don't make Minmus or the Mun necessarily clearly the best choice for first.

If we were really talking about something bonkers as a captured body then put it retrograde or on a very elliptical orbit. But those are just mean... however... good ideas for a gas giant 2.

[Sylandro]

Can we stop going about realism for a moment?

Thank you.

Kerbal Space Program isn't about realism, as such. It's about learning of the aerospace/aeronautical industry, and sparking an interest in space exploration. Its purpose is to give people a taste of what it's like to run a space program, pilot a spacecraft to new and untouched worlds, create sprawling colonies on other planets, and just generally muck about, all while having the time of your life. Minmus is a critical first step in this process. To eliminate Minmus would be to eliminate the first experiences of many existing players, and to make life harder for the newcomers. Having it there is, for them, their way of teaching themselves. Through landing on Minmus, a new player learns to match inclination, to fine tune an orbit, to land on a body, and most importantly to explore. They also teach themselves how to return from another body, and feel the overwhelming pleasure of knowing what you just accomplished - you just went to a moon, you just did science on an untouched celestial body, and most importantly, you just taught yourself about the dangers and joys of space travel.

If you want to take this experience away from people, I'd say that you are alone on that view. This community is built around exploration and discovery, reinforced by creativity and the want to share, and fueled at its very heart by ourselves - the people who explore this solar system. Minmus is the first stepping stone in this, and the one from which those further ahead pull the others to success and wonder. Minmus is our friend, and our most underestimated companion in the community. It plays a vital role in the advancement of new players and in the binding of the community. To remove it would cause unrest and upset, as players' memories are flicked away like a piece of dead skin.

I say to keep Minmus, for the sake of the community.

I'll have to agree with you. Minmus should stay, it's an exotic target, it has damn good views on the surface, and let's not forget the iconic flats.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Sylandro

[Dooz]

New players should be forced into a certain progression that closely matches Earth history.

That's not a good a idea they might think the game is to hard and then quit...

Minmus is a good body for practicing intercepting and landing minmus is fun to...

[BudgetHedgehog]

That's not a good a idea they might think the game is to hard and then quit...

Minmus is a good body for practicing intercepting and landing minmus is fun to...

He was joking.

[AlamoVampire]

I completely agree with you. New players should be forced into a certain progression that closely matches Earth history; it only makes sense.

why does it make sense to FORCE players to emulate earth? when:

1. The Kerbal Space Program tends to launch more kerbals into space than un'manned' craft.

2. We are launching from a world that is something like HALF the size of Earth

3. Has 2 moons, and while yes, ONE is Luna like, it is orbiting at a distance that is more akin to what T-Rex would have seen in his day.

4. We are launching little green dudes, not humans.

SO, again, why does it make sense that this fun little game beforced to EMULATE NASA or any OTHER Earth based space program?

[regex]

SO, again, why does it make sense that this fun little game beforced to EMULATE NASA or any OTHER Earth based space program?

I got so much mileage out of that one.

I suppose it's worth noting that my original post used dry sarcasm, something not very translatable to teh intarwebz, to illustrate why OP's idea was a bad one. vOv

[Hodo]

I do like the idea of turning it into a comet. That would be cool in RSS.

[KaBob]

Minmus should stay where it is

[tychochallenge]

Id say to keep Minmus but it needs more of an inclination, say somewhere around 45 degrees and 'some' craters as well to make landing difficulty comparable to the Mun

[Dodgey]

I got so much mileage out of that one.

I suppose it's worth noting that my original post used dry sarcasm, something not very translatable to teh intarwebz, to illustrate why OP's idea was a bad one. vOv

I'm honestly surprised it kept going after people have said you were joking.

[RuBisCO]

Once again the old "new players verse experienced player" argument, difficulty settings could give both what they want.

[Tanner Rawlings]

dont yall remember when ksp first came out? we were actually exploring! people said that you couldnt get into orbit, then a group of guys got into orbit and from what i heard some nerds did some math and gave the first measurements of kerbin early on (idk if thats true, heard it before the forum crash from one of the "old guys"), instead of trying to change minmus cause of its story, change its story, do the research, send the probes, send the spoons, send the back up spoons, send the buckets and scoops, then the shovels, learn and work with the community and come up with a scientifically possible theory (based on ksp design not IRL)