"The Definitive Guide" to all obtainable science in the universe

[asheft]

Nope. Anyway repeating experiments is only helpful if you transmitted them rather than bringing them home, right? Surface samples require a Kerbal so if you're getting a surface sample you can just bring it home with Jeb (surely you're not just abandoning him?). In that case you get 100% of it's value so bringing a second sample later from the same biome would not give you any additional science, unless I am misunderstanding the way it works.

Right... I was clearly not thinking when I wrote that. I do try not to strand Kerbals, but the surface sample confusion stems from a mission when I had a Mun landing and was able to get back into Kerbin orbit, but ran out of fuel partway through my deorbit burn. I didn't have more than 10 days of life support left, and I couldn't send a rescue mission up because of the time required for a launch window (the orbit was really inclined), so I transmitted the data home to get the science and (unfortunately) the Kerbal died from a lack of food (TAC life support).

[Timbo]

hey, i'm pretty math savy, if you wanted i could double check all the math for you

- - - Updated - - -

unless you use a ton of Excel commands and it does all the math for you

Yes, it's all done with Excel formulas. The only literals in there are the base values. But, it's very easy to mess up a formula during copy-and-pasting so if you could spot check it that would be much appreciated!

[DMagic]

Nope. Anyway repeating experiments is only helpful if you transmitted them rather than bringing them home, right? Surface samples require a Kerbal so if you're getting a surface sample you can just bring it home with Jeb (surely you're not just abandoning him?). In that case you get 100% of it's value so bringing a second sample later from the same biome would not give you any additional science, unless I am misunderstanding the way it works.

Experiments have a base value and a science cap. If the base value is lower than the science cap then repeated experiments (returned to Kerbin) will continue to give science until you've reached the cap.

Transmission adds another layer reduced science values, assuming it's less than 100%.

[Superfluous J]

In my current series I'm trying* to get one reading from each experiment everywhere, which means I get maybe 75-80% of all available science. Even that is a bit trying and the thought of going back to every single place multiple times (or bringing even more junk with me to get those multiple readings) makes me want to cry from sheer, potential boredom.

*"Trying" is probably too strong a word. I'm going places with the vague intention to "get all the science" but halfway through I realize I can't get 5 goo readings with only 3 goo containers, and then I realize 2 missions later that in a previous mission I left an atmospheric nosecone on the surface of a planet with science sitting in it.

[Timbo]

I discovered something interesting about atmo science. It's well-known that to get atmo science you have to be on a sub-orbital trajectory. So on a recent mission in the Jool system, I sent a probe to Laythe in an attempt to skim the atmo and "steal" some science on a flyby without landing and without establishing orbit. My plan was to set my Pe to less than zero (basically, a landing trajectory), do some science experiments just inside the atmo at 55km, then burn like hell to escape from crashing. This seems to conform to the upper atmo requirements, namely being on a sub-orbital trajectory and under 55km altitude. But when I entered the atmo at 55km and attempted to do some science experiments they all came back as "in space above Laythe". I repeated the experiments over and over while dropping to my doom and they all reported as "in space" until I reached 15km at which point they finally came back as "flying at Laythe" (lower atmo). I never did get "Flying high above Laythe" (high atmo). I repeated this several times to confirm it.

So for my next test I established orbit around Laythe by aerobraking in the traditional fashion. Then I repeated the experiment: Set Pe<0, wait until altitude just less than 55km, perform experiments, burn like hell to escape. This time it worked perfectly. My probe had ScienceJr, Mystery Goo and all the other sensors, so I found this was a very cheap (in terms of DV) way to get around 700 SP.

So in summary, you can't grab atmo science on a flyby even on a sub-orbital trajectory, you have to establish orbit.

[Endersmens]

Hmm, the only difference i see between the two methods is time, it would take no more delta-v either way, with proper aeorbraking, wonder why that is a science rule?

[DMagic]

Hmm, the only difference i see between the two methods is time, it would take no more delta-v either way, with proper aeorbraking, wonder why that is a science rule?

Because the stock science system is very dumb about "flying" experiments.

It seems to use the Vessel Situation "Flying" as an indicator of whether or not you're in the atmosphere. As far as I know this only triggers when you're within the atmosphere and on a sub-orbital trajectory. If you are still in a hyperbolic trajectory, that is, one end of your orbit is escaping the planet's SOI, then you can never be flying, it's only when you get to the point where both ends of your orbit intersect the planet that you can be considered flying.

A far better solution, and the one that I use (though not correctly at the moment), is to only check whether or not the vessel is within the atmosphere. If it is, then you should be able to conduct "flying" experiments. This makes far more sense than requiring some arbitrary definition of flight.

[Superfluous J]

@5thHorseman I've taken your idea a step further. Now you can set whether you want the 100% Recovery values, the 20-50% Transmission values, or the 30-75% Lab Processing values in a single place (a drop-down box) and when you make that change it updates the entire spreadsheet. If you want I could also probably add an option where you can override the values with whatever arbitrary amount you want. Check out the new version and let me know what you think. I'm happy to modify it further.

I like the dropdown, but I was thinking more a way see at a glance how the changes in this config file I made (forum link) would affect total science available for each planet and the game as a whole. In the config you see I can manually set the exact total amount you can get and I'd like to be able to plug those into, say, the "surface" values and have them carry across the entire spreadsheet. So I change "Surface" Crew Report to 3, and all the other Crew Reports become 3 as well.

Or something less clunky than that would work too

[Hydrazine_Soup]

Op could you upload the spreadsheet to google drive and then embeed the spreadsheet on the first post so we can see it all without having to download it?

[sal_vager]

I like this a lot Timbo, so I've stuck it for August

[Timbo]

Op could you upload the spreadsheet to google drive and then embeed the spreadsheet on the first post so we can see it all without having to download it?

I looked around for a way to do that and could not find a way. I don't think the forum allows it. Here is a post describing the allowed BBcode tags:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/misc.php?do=bbcode

If you can find a way, let me know and I will do it. Otherwise, just download the file and enjoy!

[Heimdall5008]

Thanks for the great guide!

But I think I've found some errors in the latest version. Would be great if you could fix them or otherwise explain me, how to meassure them

- Gilly has no atmosphere and therefore no oppurtunity for barometric pressure or sensor array when landed.

- As far as I know it is not possible to use seismic scan or sensor array when splashed down. On Kerbion you can only get the binome Water when you are splashed down, so it seems to me that these scans are not possible for Kerbin.

- The binomes of Minimus in low space are not marked alternating black and white (difficult to read).

[Timbo]

Thanks for the great guide!

But I think I've found some errors in the latest version. Would be great if you could fix them or otherwise explain me, how to meassure them

- Gilly has no atmosphere and therefore no oppurtunity for barometric pressure or sensor array when landed.

- As far as I know it is not possible to use seismic scan or sensor array when splashed down. On Kerbion you can only get the binome Water when you are splashed down, so it seems to me that these scans are not possible for Kerbin.

- The binomes of Minimus in low space are not marked alternating black and white (difficult to read).

How did I miss all that stuff? Thanks for pointing it out. I fixed them all, plus Moho which suffered from the same mistake as Gilly.

However the thing about SplashedDown is somewhat confusing. SplashedDown is a state, whereas Water is a location. I think I heard somewhere that this gets complicated -- for example you can SplashDown just beyond the water edge then walk on shore and gain science from the Shores biome, as well as landing on the Shores and getting it in the normal way. Likewise, you can get the Grasslands biome by landing there, as well as SplashingDown in a stream or lake within the Grasslands biome, thus getting two sets of science from a single biome. But I'm not sure. If you or someone else can confirm this, I will update the spreadsheet. Thanks!

[Heimdall5008]

However the thing about SplashedDown is somewhat confusing. SplashedDown is a state, whereas Water is a location. I think I heard somewhere that this gets complicated -- for example you can SplashDown just beyond the water edge then walk on shore and gain science from the Shores biome, as well as landing on the Shores and getting it in the normal way. Likewise, you can get the Grasslands biome by landing there, as well as SplashingDown in a stream or lake within the Grasslands biome, thus getting two sets of science from a single biome. But I'm not sure. If you or someone else can confirm this, I will update the spreadsheet. Thanks!

Yes, I noticed this double binome readings. But because of this reason, coast binomes strech a bit in the water, I think it is not possible to get the water binome somewhere on land.

[undercoveryankee]

Yes, I noticed this double binome readings. But because of this reason, coast binomes strech a bit in the water, I think it is not possible to get the water binome somewhere on land.

I've seen Landed at the Water biome around the island airfield.

[Heimdall5008]

I've seen Landed at the Water biome around the island airfield.

Yes, your right. I tested it and the complete island with the airfield counts as water.

[teebob21]

This is such a great find. The best part - while I review it and plan my next mission, it looks like I'm working! Yes!

[quietsamurai98]

I looked around for a way to do that and could not find a way. I don't think the forum allows it. Here is a post describing the allowed BBcode tags:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/misc.php?do=bbcode

If you can find a way, let me know and I will do it. Otherwise, just download the file and enjoy!

You could add the link for people who don't want to download stuff

[Timbo]

You could add the link for people who don't want to download stuff

I'm not sure what you mean by "add the link for people who don't want to download stuff"....? If you want a spreadsheet, you have to download it -- otherwise you do not have the spreadsheet and cannot load it into Excel or OpenOffice. Unless you mean a link to a screenshot of it? I must be misunderstanding something...

[draeath]

PDF seems to only have transmit on it. Any chance we can get a 3-pager, one page for each?

[Endersmens]

How did I miss all that stuff? Thanks for pointing it out. I fixed them all, plus Moho which suffered from the same mistake as Gilly.

hey, remember before? All the planets had barometric, even in orbit!

[Heimdall5008]

With 0.25 we have got some new "biomes". Each building in th KSC has now its own.

So additionally to KSC, Launch Pad and Runway we can do all the ground science again with:

- VAB

- SPH

- administration facility

- tracking station

- R&D

- astronaut complex

- mission control

- flagpole

- memorial

- crawlway ("street" between launch pad and VAB)

So about 450-500 additional trivial science points. Might be helpful for a new career with a anti-scientific strategy.

[mhoram]

I'd be happy to hear suggestions for improvement, and PLEASE do point out any mistakes you find so I can correct them.

SkyRex94 found some wrong numbers in the document.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/94205-The-Total-Stock-Science-Amount

[ndiver]

Does anyone has an updated version of the guide with the exact values you can get with multiple passes ? Because the guide mentions values of 9 points for the surface samples on Kerbin, when the maximal value is apparently 12 points with multiple passes.

Also as there are these new nano-biomes on the KSC since the 0.25.

[Agent 86]

Your spreadsheet is awesome.  It has helped this newb mine much science from the Mun and Minmus with landers and a Science lab.

I want to do the same thing on Duna and Ike.  Although you show that the science for each experiment per biome on Minmus you don't show all the biomes on Ike or Duna.  If I land on all 8 biomes on Ike and do a surface sample on each.  Will I get science from each different one, like on Minmus or just one?

I don't want to send much extra fuel for all of those landings and take offs if they won't help me get more science. 

Thanks again for your spreadsheet and your advice.

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by Agent 86
typos