[WIP][1.0.5]* RSS Visual Enhancements (RVE)

[Cydonian Monk]

Certainly understand where you're coming from, and I'd take having the shadow-layer "clouds" over what I'm after any day. Adding another 2 or 4 layers (including surface shadows) would kill most every system.

On RSS any cloud layer less than 8k looks very smudgy from LEO.

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm stuck in the 4k era with my meagre hardware. (Which is strange, as I can load the other 8k textures used by RSS without issue, just not 8k cloud textures.)

[pingopete]

Certainly understand where you're coming from, and I'd take having the shadow-layer "clouds" over what I'm after any day. Adding another 2 or 4 layers (including surface shadows) would kill most every system.

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm stuck in the 4k era with my meagre hardware. (Which is strange, as I can load the other 8k textures used by RSS without issue, just not 8k cloud textures.)

That's weird, must be something to do with the way EVE incorporates the textures.

[Miximix]

OMG! This is awesome! Any information on when it will be available?

[AndreyATGB]

Looking at that video really shows how basic EVE's clouds really are (no offense intended at all). Over multiple days, the clouds as a mass barely move, instead they stay in the same general area, twisting and rotating there. Looking at Earth from GEO in KSP looks completely wrong, while from the surface/LEO it's fine since we can't see the clouds' movements on a global scale. I don't even think achieving realistic clouds is possible, but then again I wouldn't have believed EVE was possible a few months ago either.

[rbray89]

Cydonian Monk: Indeed it would:

I'd never thought of alternating directions/speeds relative to equator, that could be interesting. I did however spend 6 hours slowly slicing up an 8k earth cloud coverage map into cumulus, alto, and stratus layers as best I could, the main reason being so I could have varying detail textures for cumulus, altostratus and cirrus. In the end however the reality of memory budgets meant I had to use just one for all lower layers and one for cirrus; On RSS any cloud layer less than 8k looks very smudgy from LEO. I sort of had to make a compromise of visual appearance and practicality.

As it is all cloud layers also have a second shadow layer (also 8k) I felt this was quite important for the realistic feel from orbit, giving the atmosphere some depth, my lower alto/cumulus layer also has an additional shadow layer for volumetrics so that's already 5 8k layers, plus 3 atmosphere layers sadly begins to take its toll in the form of frequent memory crashes :'(

However, the idea of say one equatorial layer and 2 (could be one layer but divided at equator) N/South cloud layers with slightly greater eastward velocity to the equatorial, might be a possibility. This could at least give the impression of the Coriolis effect/conservation of angular momentum north&southwards from equator. I'll have to give it a try, it could look pretty cool.

Although to date, the majority of my time has been spent trying to remove the seemingly endless arguments between RSS & EVE, and PQS & ScaledSpace.

..Working with a test dev version of EVE does/and doesn't help

Also, thanks for planting seeds, this is exactly what I wanted from this thread, community participation Oh and the cirrus layer is actually at just 10.5km

Looking at that video really shows how basic EVE's clouds really are (no offense intended at all). Over multiple days, the clouds as a mass barely move, instead they stay in the same general area, twisting and rotating there. Looking at Earth from GEO in KSP looks completely wrong, while from the surface/LEO it's fine since we can't see the clouds' movements on a global scale. I don't even think achieving realistic clouds is possible, but then again I wouldn't have believed EVE was possible a few months ago either.

Looking at that video really shows how basic EVE's clouds really are (no offense intended at all). Over multiple days, the clouds as a mass barely move, instead they stay in the same general area, twisting and rotating there. Looking at Earth from GEO in KSP looks completely wrong, while from the surface/LEO it's fine since we can't see the clouds' movements on a global scale. I don't even think achieving realistic clouds is possible, but then again I wouldn't have believed EVE was possible a few months ago either.

Hmmm... Now you guys have me wanting to try and implement this... I'll see what could be done. I'm not especially hopeful unless it is something that could be done on a shader level really easily. If that is the case, there would be other issues with getting the volume clouds to match.

[pingopete]

Hmmm... Now you guys have me wanting to try and implement this... I'll see what could be done. I'm not especially hopeful unless it is something that could be done on a shader level really easily. If that is the case, there would be other issues with getting the volume clouds to match.

Clouds.. was one huge leap for Kerbal kind, Volumetrics was an even greater leap, I fear 3D fluid and completely independently yet intrinsically moving cloud layers may be out of the scope of ksp for the time being.

I guess I'm just thinking maybe focusing on something like procedural cloud cover or something else of the kind might be a more realistic and prosperous aspiration for the near future. ...But don't let me stop you by any means this would be a truly epic feat:D

Miximix: Now I've started on the significantly more stable Overhaul 9, I could hopefully get a DL up by mid-next week? ..hopefully

[pingopete]

New City Lights incoming; still needs a bit of refining, but a start at least

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[NathanKell]

rbray: I got nuthin' for the coriolis clouds stuff, but you can add cloud shadow very easily, by using the existing cloud layer's alpha (you're already replacing both land and ocean shaders anyway, so...might as well blend that in too )

[Nicholander]

When will this be released?

[jrandom]

Hell, I'd be happy to test out a dev release! (I have my own setup that sorta works but it's not nearly as pretty as this.)

[pingopete]

Yeah, I really need some testers, who understand this isn't a 100% working release and report back problems. Would you be happy if I got one up now despite some serious problems with cloud shadows, and ground/space switching? It's very stable in the atmosphere and when fully in space, it just doesn't like going between.

If so I'll put up what I've got so far tonight

[jrandom]

Yeah, I really need some testers, who understand this isn't a 100% working release and report back problems. Would you be happy if I got one up now despite some serious problems with cloud shadows, and ground/space switching? It's very stable in the atmosphere and when fully in space, it just doesn't like going between.

If so I'll put up what I've got so far tonight

I'm all for it! I have a dedicated mod backup folder I use when testing new stuff out -- move the working mod folder to the backup folder, then try out the new version. If it works, I keep it. If it fails, I delete it and restore the backed-up mod folders. I also test using a dedicated "scratch" savegame so I don't break any existing ships.

[Reddragon]

Yeah, I really need some testers, who understand this isn't a 100% working release and report back problems. Would you be happy if I got one up now despite some serious problems with cloud shadows, and ground/space switching? It's very stable in the atmosphere and when fully in space, it just doesn't like going between.

If so I'll put up what I've got so far tonight

I'd definetely try it. Judging from the pictures you made a very good job so far anyway despite the possible bugs.

[pingopete]

Sweet, that's actually perfect, I'd strongly reccommend backing up saves, I've had some bugs where orbiting ships will explode on switching.. yeah I know it's bad right.

Ok I'm compiling it all together now.

[NovaSilisko]

I like the look of this but the overall palette is far, far too green for me... Compare with photos of Earth from Apollo:

As well as photos from low orbit today:

The blue tones overall are strongly dominant, rather than blue-green as you have.

Edit: Perhaps the best example, a shot from the Kaguya lunar orbiter in 2008

And here I've made a quick recolor to give an example:

Edited June 22, 2014 by NovaSilisko

[pingopete]

It would appear that way from the old apollo images indeed, but then all images from that era where typically darker and more faded. My problem was trying to find a compromise between all the images claiming to be 'true' colour of earth and between what looked real from H/MEO and LEO the later typically being far brighter and less faded.

[NovaSilisko]

It would appear that way from the old apollo images indeed, but then all images from that era where typically darker and more faded. My problem was trying to find a compromise between all the images claiming to be 'true' colour of earth and between what looked real from H/MEO and LEO the later typically being far brighter and less faded.

Things like the original Blue Marble set (not the original Apollo 17 blue marble though) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BlueMarble-2001-2002.jpg and Blue Marble 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:North_America_from_low_orbiting_satellite_Suomi_NPP.jpg are always composite images, taken from images of the land and sea, then a separate cloud map, then a simple atmosphere shader over it. Those should never be taken as indications of true color as viewed from outside, they work alright for terrain color maps though. The Apollo images remain in comparable colors to contemporary photos taken from the ISS in low orbit, and photos of the Earth from the Moon as shown by the Kaguya picture I posted, so they remain useful as examples of the true color of the planet viewed as a whole.

Edited June 22, 2014 by NovaSilisko

[pingopete]

Does anyone know how to create a DL link for a pre packed mod folder with mediafire, like the ones people typically use for uploading mod folders (pre packed)? I can only get the option for uploading individual files or creating folders within the mediafire site :/

And thank Nova, I'll do some more tweaking tonight. I was kinda unsure as there are so many different images claiming to be true colour on the net that all look different.

[Nicholander]

Does anyone know how to create a DL link for a pre packed mod folder with mediafire, like the ones people typically use for uploading mod folders (pre packed)? I can only get the option for uploading individual files or creating folders within the mediafire site :/

And thank Nova, I'll do some more tweaking tonight. I was kinda unsure as there are so many different images claiming to be true colour on the net that all look different.

It has to be a .zip or .rar

[pingopete]

Ah ok thanks

[Winston]

Another thing to think about is what sort of "exposure" you want to shoot for, I myself would much prefer the sort of white levels you'd expect to see as your eyes adjust to the black surrounding the planet therefore slightly overexposing the planet itself.

I think the Earthrise image represents that rather well:

While this strikes me as far too dark:

I'd go more for something like this, both colour and exposure wise:

Edited June 22, 2014 by Winston

[jrandom]

The images posted by Nova match extremely closely with video I've seem from the ISS, so I'd recommend going with that look.

[pingopete]

Ok, Well I can tell you now the clouds won't go any whiter than they are, they're under the atmospheric layers and maxed at all levels sadly. As for the exposure it is something I've given some thought on, I will recommend using DistantObjects mod as this dims the background scene when focused on planets and other bright objects, sadly it won't over expose them when not. I will go over the current colour scheme to try and match these as best I can.

Recently though I've been focusing heavily on getting the bugs sorted and ground level look right, as well as adjusting to the new overhaul 9 system.

[Guest]

I wonder... is that possible to tweak the Sun so that it produces stronger, brighter light? I noticed that despite having no clouds, KSP doesn't really look as vibrant as real life when the sun is high in the sky. Maybe some changes to the Sun itself would give an improvement.

[Winston]

The images posted by Nova match extremely closely with video I've seem from the ISS, so I'd recommend going with that look.

Those cameras are pretty poor when it comes to white balance and exposure and tend to show far too much magenta in the blues.