If the nazis won?

[xenomorph555]

Odd question here.

Say the nazis defeated britain, didn't attack russia and got into peace agreements with everybody. They basically have europe as an empire, with more money, industry,etc. What would Werner Von Braun do after the basic A-4/V-2 program?

My predictions, he would move onto the A-4b program and possibly the submarine v-2 program.

After this he would probably either go with the A-10 program or the manned A-4b, maybe both...

[Scotius]

Or, since Germany would be at (relative) peace he would not get money, and ended teaching physics at some university.

[theend3r]

Or if Nazis prevented their scientists from escaping they would've ruled the world. It's still incredible if you imagine one country, desolated from WWI, forced to pay reparations and banned from having army, put up a fight against half the world alone (italians were useless and the japanese were on the other side of the globe). Thankfully they did and Hitler repeated Napoleon's mistakes.

[xenomorph555]

Or, since Germany would be at (relative) peace he would not get money, and ended teaching physics at some university.

Von B was hired in 1932, pretty peaceful then but they were still building D:

[Mitchz95]

Even if they won, I doubt the Nazis would have survived too long afterward. Considering the number of attempts on Hitler's life.

[SolarLiner]

Wolfenstein made an alternate history where the nazis won. Yeah I know, it could not realistically be possible with all the machinery in the game, and it's only there for backstory, but still.

[xenomorph555]

I wonder where korolev would be, probably in a pit or something

[mdatspace]

Germany could not have won. I doubt that the Russians would abide by the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact forever. Operation Sealion was impractical. Did they have air superiority? No. Did they have the equipment? No. Logistics? No. Naval supremacy? No. It was never going to happen.

[xenomorph555]

Germany could not have won. I doubt that the Russians would abide by the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact forever. Operation Sealion was impractical. Did they have air superiority? No. Did they have the equipment? No. Logistics? No. Naval supremacy? No. It was never going to happen.

I understand but that was not what I asked, I stated what would Von B would do if they had won.

[theend3r]

Germany could not have won. I doubt that the Russians would abide by the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact forever. Operation Sealion was impractical. Did they have air superiority? No. Did they have the equipment? No. Logistics? No. Naval supremacy? No. It was never going to happen.

If the Germans developed Type XXI a year or two earlier they would have naval supremacy. Plus nuclear bomb is all they needed.

[Dodgey]

Which they weren't even close to getting. They had fundemental flaws which prevented them from making any significant progress.

[mdatspace]

If the Germans developed Type XXI a year or two earlier they would have naval supremacy. Plus nuclear bomb is all they needed.

A few technologically advanced U-Boats does nothing to change the fact that the the allies can replace their losses. The British/US will catch up to the type XXI when it comes to technology given some time. Even more, the type XXI had quality issues in its construction. Only four were fit for combat before the end of the war in Europe.

The German nuclear program was a mess.

[Red Iron Crown]

If we're playing hypotheticals, I think that Germany could have won if it hadn't engaged the Russians prematurely and Japan hadn't attacked the US.

The Nazis weren't technophobes by any stretch, I have no doubt they would have continued their rocketry program in peacetime, likely successfully.

[Voidryder]

May I suggest reading Philip K. ****'s Man in the High Castle?

[Red Iron Crown]

May I suggest reading Philip K. ****'s Man in the High Castle?

Clearly all copies of that unnamed author have been burned by the Department of Truth.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Red Iron Crown

[cpast]

Take a guess.

EDIT: Clearly, it's not the censorship filter at all; are you telling me you haven't heard of books by Philip Fourstar (his pen name)?

Edited June 17, 2014 by cpast

[Brethern]

Can we leave the what if's out and answer the question that he asked?

Given what we know about history I think the simplest answer is that he would have been shot once he was of no more use. He was arrested and only released because of what he could give them, once that was exhausted they would have gotten rid of him.

Most of what we know is speculation but what we do know is that he would have rather built space craft instead of missiles.

[Red Iron Crown]

Take a guess.

EDIT: Clearly, it's not the censorship filter at all; are you telling me you haven't heard of books by Philip Fourstar (his pen name)?

No, I know the author, I read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep. Was making a play on if the Nazis won and censorship. Edited to be more clear.

[Nuke]

if the nazis would have succeeded in a conquest of europe, uk and russia, they would have been unable to attack the usa directly across the atlantic because they didnt have much in terms of carriers or long range bombers. likewise the german uboats would have made a naval assault on germany impossible. they would instead have to support japan's war efforts (with production and soldiers) at first. with german support, the japanese would have been able to take territory in the pacific (and possibly the west coast) and hold it. this would buy them some time to progress their rocketry and jet aircraft programs to the point where an atlantic front would be possible. we would likely have nuclear weapons ready at that point to defend ourselves and possibly force a diplomatic solution. of course eventually germany would gain our nuclear secrets the way the russians did, and since they had a leg up on rocketry, america would be cratered.

[TheShadow1138]

Despite the politically motivated arrest, I'd imaging that as long as von Braun was providing what they wanted they'd keep him around, and maybe even bury the arrest if his successes reached beyond the V-2 and perhaps turn him into a symbol of German scientific supremacy.

On the topic of what he would have done, I'd think that in this scenario where **** Germany did not attack Russia the work at Peenemünde would have continued. Hitler had no love for the Soviets and though he was friendly towards them at first, it was merely a move to keep them out of the war until he was ready to deal with them. I believe Hitler would have gone after the Soviets eventually in this scenario necessitating a continued Wunderwaffen program. Also such a war may very well have included the United States and Britain if Hitler allowed them to continue to exist after the peace. According to my World War II history professor, Hitler always thought that Britain and the United States should be fighting with him against the Soviets. Hitler viewed Britons and Americans as also descended from Aryans and it was no secret that how Britain and America felt about Soviet Communism, which was one of the core principles of the **** Party (hatred of communists).

I'm not so sure that Stalin would have eventually broken the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. When Hitler was "shopping" the Tripartite Pact around to build the Axis Alliance, Stalin wanted to sign. Also, Stalin utterly refused to believe that Hitler would violate the pact despite all of his advisors and intelligence services telling him that Germany was getting ready to invade in June of 1941.

[Stargate525]

Odd question here.

Say the nazis defeated britain, didn't attack russia and got into peace agreements with everybody. They basically have europe as an empire, with more money, industry,etc. What would Werner Von Braun do after the basic A-4/V-2 program?

My predictions, he would move onto the A-4b program and possibly the submarine v-2 program.

After this he would probably either go with the A-10 program or the manned A-4b, maybe both...

Extremely unlikely hypothetical. Hitler was a madman who had, several times, made it very clear that there would be no stopping until he had control over everything (with the possible exception of Africa and S.America).

That said, assuming someone sane came into power, stopped the Reich at 'just' Europe... He's a **** pawn; he'd work on whatever they told him to. An ICBM isn't out of the question, especially considering the US would be hard-pressed to simply let them sit on Europe.

On a slightly off-topic note, the US was actually fairly 3rd Reich friendly until the 40s (something we have conveniently whitewashed from national consciousness). We are still a large majority Germanic descent, even moreso back then. It is ENTIRELY possible that if, instead of declaring on us following Pearl Harbor, Hitler made a condemning speech and swore to stand with 'our Germanic American bretheren' against the threat of Japan, we would have slipped off of neutrality onto the other side.

[cpast]

Conclusion from this thread: Discussing the one actual exception to Godwin's law doesn't work very well when the forum enforces the law.

[xcorps]

if the nazis would have succeeded in a conquest of europe, uk and russia, they would have been unable to attack the usa directly across the atlantic because they didnt have much in terms of carriers or long range bombers. likewise the german uboats would have made a naval assault on germany impossible. they would instead have to support japan's war efforts (with production and soldiers) at first. with german support, the japanese would have been able to take territory in the pacific (and possibly the west coast) and hold it. this would buy them some time to progress their rocketry and jet aircraft programs to the point where an atlantic front would be possible. we would likely have nuclear weapons ready at that point to defend ourselves and possibly force a diplomatic solution. of course eventually germany would gain our nuclear secrets the way the russians did, and since they had a leg up on rocketry, america would be cratered.

Uh, at the start of WWII (Japan vs US) the United States didn't have any purpose built carrier forces or long range bombers either. The Lexingtons were only built because a treaty cancelled battleship and cruiser construction, so the Navy continued construction on the hulls as carriers. Neither of them were in the Atlantic. Ranger was used mostly for ferry and ground support, though I believe her TBF's killed a tanker. A dedicated Task Group assigned with clearing a SLOC and establishing a beachhead on US Soil could have done so. (Once, anyway)

The Uboats were power projectors, not defensive. A lot of tonnage was sunk in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisianna, Texas, and Alabama. A lot was sunk off the east coast as well.

[Nuke]

i dont think america could have attacked germany over the atlantic. the only way we were able to bring our bombers into germany was because we had england to base from. had that not been the case it would have been very hard for us to do bombing raids on germany. also without support from the british navy, it would have been all but impossible to pull off d-day, or even get warships (of any kind) anywhere near axis territory. i do admit that the germans would have better luck invading the usa, though i dont think it would be very successful. if the uboats needed to be used defensively they could have, the atlantic was swarming with them, bunched up near germany (and sans the british navy), they could have butchered any assault.

i think that after securing europe, the nazis would try to distance themselves from the fighting with the usa directly, and would instead fill a support role and let japan take its pacific empire. nuclear weapons might bring the war to a diplomatic ending with the usa mostly intact, a german controlled europe and a japanese controlled asia. needless to say the subsequent cold war would be rather interesting.

then again if german production survives mostly intact we might see jet aircraft and rockets playing a bigger role in the war, possibly giving germany the capability to launch air strikes across the atlantic (and possibly intercept nuclear armed aircraft as well). in that case, the usa would probibly be consumed by the nazis and japan. then both would begin annexing countries one after another until they have no one to fight but eachother.

[Nibb31]

The only chance Hitler ever had of winning WWII would have been to invade Britain after the debacle of Dunkirk. If they had defeated Britain before Pearl Harbour, then the US would have never declared war on Germany. However, they never gained the air supremacy that would have been required, especially after the Battle of Britain. Germany never had the coordination, the resources, the equipment, or even the will, to pull off Operation Sea Lion.

Once the US had entered the war, and with Britain on its doorstep with air and naval superiority, it was only a matter of time before there was a western front. Also, if Germany hadn't invaded Russia, Stalin would have eventually ended the Non Agression Pact himself sooner or later. In those days, no single country had the capability of "Total War" against the rest of the world.

So I don't think there was any possibility and alternate timeline of **** Germany actually winning WWII without adding a whole bunch of fantasy parameters and dozens of other hypothetical "what-ifs", which makes the discussion pointless.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Nibb31