July Newsletter for KerbalEdu (some interesting point)

[Sirine]

Treasure Hunt mission

We're hiding exciting space objects on Kerbin. There will be a mission where the students are given specific geographic coordinates on Kerbin and they have to navigate their vessel to a certain coordinate point in order to find one of the space objects. This will be a fun way for kids to learn navigation and maybe also some facts about space objects.

More lesson plans & missions

We have planned several lessons on topics such as energy, work and Newton's Third Law. We're thinking of adding more narratives into the missions in order to make them even more fun and appealing to a larger scale of students. There will also be closer versions of the two falling scenarios (Kerbin and Mun). We're also talking about redoing our previous missions with the help of the Mission Editor. One big feature of the Mission Editor is being able to add events and actions to the missions. This means that if a certain condition is fulfilled, an action takes place, so for example, when the vessel has reached a certain altitude, the screen could be frozen, there could be a message box etc.

Female Kerbals

We thought it would be a good idea to have female names for the Kerbals as well as male names as the Kerbals are going to classrooms. We don't want girls feeling left-out or wondering if rocket science is really just for boys. What's your opinion on this? Tell us in our google group.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/kerbal-teachers/Oy7qeO9wAWw

You see what I see?

Edited July 15, 2014 by Sirine

[rodion_herrera]

I will be screening some select kids in my city (from different schools...my job lets me visit different schools in my area), for participation in experimental Kerbal_EDU sessions. I am keen to see how they respond to it. Will post informal reports here about this, when we begin the tests.

Edited July 15, 2014 by rodion_herrera

[KerbMav]

-snip-

Edit before flag: KerbalEdu has my complete support (morally and emotionally)

Edited September 19, 2014 by KasperVld

[Sirine]

Just doing some old thread reading and bump to this. Hey, it still not being lock yet!

Please Read the below Link.

kerbal-space-program-ama-reveals-origin-of-kerbals-plans-for-1-0

Well, this thread might never be lock. Do some reading above and you should know why.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Sirine

[Sirine]

The intention for reviving this post is for you to READ this..

[Red Iron Crown]

Long overdue in my opinion, especially in the Edu version. What sort of lesson does it teach when all the participants in the space program are male?

This quote from the AMA is a bit funny though: "We may be just a small indie studio but we feel that gaming in general should no longer treat women as an afterthought." Female kerbals seem to be literally an afterthought, given how much longer it has taken for them to be added to the game. Better late than never, I suppose.

[KasperVld]

Moved some off-topic posts to their own thread in the Kerbal Network forum. As for female Kerbal characters I couldn't agree more, the game needs them. It was good to learn they are coming to KSP, though we still don't know when that will be.

[Kasuha]

It is kind of funny how we keep applying human stereotypes on a fictional alien race. How can we be sure that eventual alien race would really have two sexes? Perhaps they would be hermaphrodites just like quite a few Earth species are. Or they could have seven sexes with strict rules which ... can mate with which two other sexes...?

Of course devs can only blame themselves as they made Kerbals so human-like that people can apply these stereotypes on them. I don't think it would make the game all that much less fun if they looked kind of like [this] (or cuter, this is best I found in a quick search) and I believe few people would be asking for a version of opposite or different gender.

Of course I'm sure we'll be getting female Kerbals in the current state of things. Not because Kerbals need females. It is because we need them to feel being politically correct.

[Wanderfound]

Of course I'm sure we'll be getting female Kerbals in the current state of things. Not because Kerbals need females. It is because we need them to feel being politically correct.

Or, in the case of Kerbal.edu, we need them to avoid perpetuating gender stereotyping crap that is demonstrably harmful to the education of girls. I certainly wouldn't have let something into one of my classrooms that implied (however obliquely) that pilots and engineers are inevitably male.

...and that's all I'll say on this, before I really do draw the wrath of the mods.

[r4pt0r]

Ive always thought that the kerbals looked like the early US space program astronauts, from the 60's. So its perfectly reasonable that they all look like men, because they all were men.

As usual this is just more political correctness gone amok. People get upset over the most insignificant stuff sometimes.

No one is boycotting squads lack of female devs are they?

Edited September 19, 2014 by r4pt0r

[Guest]

Of course I'm sure we'll be getting female Kerbals in the current state of things. Not because Kerbals need females. It is because we need them to feel being politically correct.

This is really insulting, especially to those of us who would like to see our daughters grow up in a world free of ancient gender stereotypes designed to keep women under the thumb of men, like so much property. The whole "they're aliens" argument doesn't fly when Kerbals have such obvious human male gender cues. While I have plenty in KSP to be disappointed about, I'm quite happy that SQUAD have the good sense to add female Kerbals in so we can have realistic space programs and women can feel more a part of the fun.

[tater]

Considering the tiny amount of time it would take for one of their artists to put eyelashes, and maybe a different hairdo on a kerbal, getting upset over this is absurd. Aside from regex's point (I have a young daughter, as well), it's not about PC, it's about BUSINESS. Why write off half the possible players? MY daughter played minecraft with Steve as he was, but even though she cannot even see her avatar, she was very excited to have one that was "a girl." I've actually met/hung out with several astronauts, and guess what, a couple of them were… women. Who'dve thought?

[Guest]

Considering the tiny amount of time it would take for one of their artists to put eyelashes, and maybe a different hairdo on a kerbal

Please no. SQUAD can do better and should take cues from community fan art rather than simply adding some makeup.

[Wanderfound]

This is really insulting, especially to those of us who would like to see our daughters grow up in a world free of ancient gender stereotypes designed to keep women under the thumb of men, like so much property. The whole "they're aliens" argument doesn't fly when Kerbals have such obvious human male gender cues. While I have plenty in KSP to be disappointed about, I'm quite happy that SQUAD have the good sense to add female Kerbals in so we can have realistic space programs and women can feel more a part of the fun.

And, incidentally, women actually make better astronauts on average than men do. They're smaller, they weigh less, and they're more resistant to G-force blackouts. If it hadn't been for the patriarchal 1950's nonsense, there would have been more female astronauts than male.

[Wanderfound]

Please no. SQUAD can do better and should take cues from community fan art rather than simply adding some makeup.

GregroxMun's version seems fairly acceptable: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62518-Four-things-for-pro-KGV%2A?p=853240&viewfull=1#post853240

[tater]

Please no. SQUAD can do better and should take cues from community fan art rather than simply adding some makeup.

In their spacesuits, other than facial cues, there is very little you'd notice. Unless the IVA are going to follow Gravity and have them in yoga shorts under their suits instead of what they actually wear

Regardless, it's a small amount of work for their artists.

GregroxMun's version seems fairly acceptable: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62518-Four-things-for-pro-KGV%2A?p=853240&viewfull=1#post853240

Yeah, that's fine. A slight face change and different hairline.

[Rowsdower]

Please no. SQUAD can do better and should take cues from community fan art rather than simply adding some makeup.

I wouldn't bet on the guys simply putting a different hair style on a current Kerbal model and calling it a day, but that's for another time and place.

Now everyone, please be careful in this thread. The topic can get ugly fast, as it has proven to in similar, older threads. Our intention is to implement female Kerbals into the main game at some point. We're still waiting for right point at which to do so, but as you saw in Max's AMA, work has been done and things have been looked into.

[lincourtl]

GregroxMun's version seems fairly acceptable: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62518-Four-things-for-pro-KGV%2A?p=853240&viewfull=1#post853240

That's actually Hayoo's art he's posting.

[Parkaboy]

As usual this is just more political correctness gone amok. People get upset over the most insignificant stuff sometimes.

I don't mean to be rude, but to claim the issue of gender representation in media is insignificant shows a huge lack of basic understanding about the issue. Of course it's just a game, but it is part of a popular culture that contributes to the maintenance of a misogynisic view of women (mainstream games are particularly bad on that regard) - a view that has amongst its most extreme consequences all sorts of abuse, both physical and psychological - when it could, with little effort, do it's small part to fight against such representation.

This isn't a small matter. It's certainly bigger than whether we'll get better aerodynamics or if we need stock life support.

PS.: I quite like the GregroxMun/Hayoo version.

[Guest]

GregroxMun's version seems fairly acceptable: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62518-Four-things-for-pro-KGV%2A?p=853240&viewfull=1#post853240

This, and other similar artwork, is what I was refering to.

I wouldn't bet on the guys simply putting a different hair style on a current Kerbal model and calling it a day, but that's for another time and place.

Actually, this is one area where I completely trust the KSP devs. Maxmaps made a point of assuaging any concerns over simply putting lipstick on a pig. I may not trust them to get other things right, but that's for another time and place.

E:

This isn't a small matter. It's certainly bigger than whether we'll get better aerodynamics or if we need stock life support.

I actually completely agree with this, well said.

Edited September 19, 2014 by regex

[Kasuha]

This is really insulting, especially to those of us who would like to see our daughters grow up in a world free of ancient gender stereotypes designed to keep women under the thumb of men, like so much property. The whole "they're aliens" argument doesn't fly when Kerbals have such obvious human male gender cues. While I have plenty in KSP to be disappointed about, I'm quite happy that SQUAD have the good sense to add female Kerbals in so we can have realistic space programs and women can feel more a part of the fun.

I am glad to notice that you agree with me that male characteristics of Kerbals are the core of the problem - at least for certain, sensitive people. That's why I think they should be removed, and that's what I meant by my post.

I can remember from our previous discussions that you're great realism enthusiast. As such, I am surprised to find out that you're not welcoming that idea as you are sure aware there is no scientific support at all for the idea that eventual alien race, should we ever meet any, will have two genders, and if it happens to have, that it will use typically human stereotypes like hairdo or makeup. Adding these elements to the game constitutes sexism.

Edited September 19, 2014 by NathanKell
Removed final paragraph

[Rowsdower]

Guys, last time. Can we please keep this from getting too personal here?

[Parkaboy]

Let's keep in mind that kerbals aren't intended to be plausible aliens. They're not even rubber-forehead aliens. They're stylized human beings. Their world is a stylized version of ours, their solar system is a stylized version of ours, and even their space program looks very similar to the human ones. They're not an "eventual alien race". They're human surrogates, and therefore the gender issue is pertinent.

[impwarhamer]

By female kerbal names do you mean a separate model or just the name changed? I wouldn't really mind much over just the name, but I like my kerbals all kerbally looking!

that said, I don't think anyone would be discouraged by only 'male' kerbals (if you can even call them male)

EDIT: oh god just noticed the flame war. Don't take this comment the wrong way

[Robotengineer]

What about multiracial Kerbals? If you go down the road of political correctness... (Or Kerbals as Human analogs.)