[0.24.2] DebRefund v1.0.13

[Fyrem]

call the Kerbal Police, someone stole my Internet packet!

Anyway, thanks Vendan, I will be RE-enableing that update check as soon as I update ... if I remember to update.. since.. .. well.. I am not reminded anymore....

[Vendan]

Modified build of DebRefund 1.0.11 that does not phone home without your consent:

*snip*

I haven't tested this extensively - just loaded the game and went to the runway. Also checked the logs for errors. If anything doesn't work, that works in the official 1.0.11 (except of updatechecks obviously), drop me a line. In this modified built, there is no way to check for updates, because the update code no longer exists.

Oh, and also, you are currently in violation of my license, either fix your download(by including the license), or remove your download.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Vendan

[impyre]

wow... all the trouble you guys go to in order to provide a wonderful service to us gamers at no cost to us, and you *still* gotta put up with this. Just remember, there are lots of us who really appreciate what you guys do and what you put up with. Thanks for an awesome mod and regular updates.

[Kamuchi]

Simple version check I have no problem with, alsong it`s not tracking

UpdateCheck = true

Thanks for a great plugin!

[Darthzeus]

No more doing contracts with overly expensive single stage vehicles

Perfect!

[Vendan]

[Removed by moderation staff.]

You didn't include my license, which is disturbingly liberal as it is. Pretty much the only way to violate it is to not include it with the source code.... which you did. It's stated everywhere that my download is available. I'm sorry it's not included in the download, though a lot of mods don't include the license in the compiled download file, though it is automatically included in the source code download.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Vanamonde

[Faster]

@Vendan Thanks for the great mod, congratulations on being featured by Squad, and thank you for including an update check! Great (hard) work, all much appreciated. Sorry to see you have to put up with trollsâ€â€no good deed, what.

[Vanamonde]

Please try to watch your tempers and do not let the discussion deteriorate into insults.

[UAL002]

@Vendan, keep at it man, I hope we the collective Kerbal forums don't discourage you. Great mod. As for the trolls, I for one welcome our new government spy overlords. Cheers

[OrbitalDebris]

Thanks for a great mod, Vendan.

About privacy, this is why commercial software that does this sort of thing comes with a privacy statement. This is a short text that describes what data is sent, how it's used and stored, and after how long it's deleted. It gives users peace of mind (and for companies that sell their stuff in the EU, it also prevents very large fines...) With a privacy statement, users can make an informed decision of whether they want to use a given program or not. I imagine that the statement for this mod would read something like "This mod sends its version number over unencrypted HTTP to my server at www.blah.com; this information is used to determine whether a new version of the mod must be downloaded and it's not stored at the server. This behavior is opt-in and can be disabled at any time by editing the config file called blah.cfg that's in the mod's folder". Bam, no ambiguity and no need for strong words. Note that the statement must be truthful, so the first version of this mod would have had to state that the behavior is not configurable by end users.

Edited July 23, 2014 by OrbitalDebris

[Majiir]

About privacy, this is why commercial software that does this sort of thing comes with a privacy statement.

Vendan isn't running a server. He's using KerbalStuff, which has a privacy policy.

[OrbitalDebris]

That's the thing - his code is sending data from a computer he doesn't own to somewhere else. The privacy statement is there to inform the owner of the computer what's happening to this data (to fully inform the user he'd need to link both his privacy statement and KerbalStuff's). In this case (a free mod for a computer game) it's a pretty trivial thing so it's a storm in a teacup, but in the bigger picture this is the kind of thing that large companies get fined billions for.

Edited July 23, 2014 by OrbitalDebris

[Tippis]

Vendan isn't running a server. He's using KerbalStuff, which has a privacy policy.

Then he definitely must include a privacy statement.

[Ignath]

Then he definitely must include a privacy statement.

Which is included on the website when you DOWNLOAD the mod. Stupid argument is stupid! There are 0 privacy violations occurring here, just like with ModStatistics, but the Snowdens are out in force again.

[Tippis]

Which is included on the website

…that the user might not even see depending on where he gets it from.

There is absolutely no reason or excuse not to include it in the download mod. There is also absolutely no excuse for not including one any time a mod of any kind collects data from a source the creator doesn't own, doubly so if it sends it to a destination s/he also doesn't own.

I simply can't get my head around this vociferous and aggressive unwillingness to provide information to the end users at every possible opportunity.

It costs nothing to do so. The only argument against it is because you want them to remain uninformed, which only ever hints at some severe dishonesty going on. So why are people getting so upset over the notion that, hey, why not include it with the mod?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Tippis

[SirCmpwn]

Hi, I'm the Kerbal Stuff dude. I don't think I'm evil, last time I checked. Here to answer questions if you have any.

[cpast]

Since he's now added a privacy statement, I think arguing about whether it should have one is a bit moot now. Back to talking about DebRefund?

[nismobg]

Why DON'T YOU take this privacy discussion to the Mod Statistics forum page ? This is Deb's Refund page as far as a I know. Sharing your disagreement with him implementing modStatistics if understandable but going into all this yapping is annoying.

[blizzy78]

Since we're all about this privacy statement:

Privacy Statement: If you enable the update check, the following information is sent to the KerbalStuff server:

IP address

the fact that you play KSP

It's missing "current date/time." While that is perhaps not transmitted actively, the server surely knows it.

[ThirdHorseman]

I'm confused. Does this mod include ModStatistics, or it's own built-in update checking code, or something specific to KerbalStuff?

I understand the KerbalStuff server keeping page view stats and stuff, that's normal for web servers. But do all mods downloaded from KerbalStuff also include code that communicates with the KerbalStuff server?

Very confusing...

[Vendan]

I'm confused. Does this mod include ModStatistics, or it's own built-in update checking code, or something specific to KerbalStuff?

I understand the KerbalStuff server keeping page view stats and stuff, that's normal for web servers. But do all mods downloaded from KerbalStuff also include code that communicates with the KerbalStuff server?

Very confusing...

All it has is a (now) opt-in update check for itself. It doesn't send any info other then a standard http request, that actually sends less information then you already did to download the mod, and this is not something that KerbalStuff adds or anything, I coded it myself. Part of the reason is the frustration when people complain about broken things that I've already fixed. Most people don't check all the mods that they have installed to see if there are updates for them. You can see this multiple times over the course of just a few days in this thread alone, and I've spent time on Twitch, watching streamers, only to see bugs that I fixed still happening cause they have version 1.0.4 when the current was already 1.0.10

[Vendan]

Why DON'T YOU take this privacy discussion to the Mod Statistics forum page ? This is Deb's Refund page as far as a I know. Sharing your disagreement with him implementing modStatistics if understandable but going into all this yapping is annoying.

I'm really curious about this, as I don't have ModStatistics or anything like it in DebRefund... What exactly are you talking about?

[ThirdHorseman]

All it has is a (now) opt-in update check for itself. It doesn't send any info other then a standard http request, that actually sends less information then you already did to download the mod, and this is not something that KerbalStuff adds or anything, I coded it myself.

That's fine. Someone mentioned ModStats and I wondered why there wasn't a blurb in the first post as required by ModStats. And then someone else mentioned the privacy policy on KerbalStuff, and that didn't make any sense either.

So this is your own code that you put in, that sends info to a server you operate, listing our IP address and the version number of this mod, and that's it?

[Smurfalot]

I really do not see what the big deal is, I wish all my mods had a version check so that it would be easier to keep things up to date.

[fizzboy]

ThirdHorseman said:

That's fine. Someone mentioned ModStats and I wondered why there wasn't a blurb in the first post as required by ModStats. And then someone else mentioned the privacy policy on KerbalStuff, and that didn't make any sense either.

So this is your own code that you put in, that sends info to a server you operate, listing our IP address and the version number of this mod, and that's it?

No. Vendan does not operate any server. The mod doesn't send any info. All it does is it makes a HTTP connection to beta.kerbalstuff.com and asks for the latest version of DebRefund. It doesn't send anything. It doesn't tell KerbalStuff what mod you have installed. It doesn't tell KerbalStuff that you're even running a game. You can open a web browser and perform the exact same check that DebRefund does by going here: [Moderator removed defunct website link]

KerbalStuff responds with the latest version of the DebRefund mod. DebRefund then compares its version with the version number from the server and if the versions do not match, it alerts you of a new version.

Edited August 28, 2022 by James Kerman
link removed