[0.24.2] DebRefund v1.0.13

[Ratzap]

See that's why I prefer things on Curseforge, no-one harvesting IPs from people downloading the mod. I'm out, DebRefunds is a delete I think. I'll get that other one instead.

[Xaiier]

See that's why I prefer things on Curseforge, no-one harvesting IPs from people downloading the mod. I'm out, DebRefunds is a delete I think. I'll get that other one instead.

Erm, do you understand how the internet works? Curse logs your IP, as well as every other single website ever.

[Vendan]

That's fine. Someone mentioned ModStats and I wondered why there wasn't a blurb in the first post as required by ModStats. And then someone else mentioned the privacy policy on KerbalStuff, and that didn't make any sense either.

So this is your own code that you put in, that sends info to a server you operate, listing our IP address and the version number of this mod, and that's it?

It is my own code, but it's not connecting to a server that I operate, it's connecting to KerbalStuff. It doesn't send anything other then a standard http request, but by the very nature of the internet, that means the server gets your ip address. Doesn't even send your current version.

[Agathorn]

Guys this is really no different from what Blizzy's toolbar does and most every one of you uses that. It just pings a server to see if there is a new version.. That is all.

[ThirdHorseman]

It is my own code, but it's not connecting to a server that I operate, it's connecting to KerbalStuff. It doesn't send anything other then a standard http request, but by the very nature of the internet, that means the server gets your ip address. Doesn't even send your current version.

You might want to include a little more info in the first post. With the current firestorm over ModStats people are quite jumpy about mods sending info along. From the text you have there it sounds like the mod gets info from our computer and sends it along to KerbalStuff, and it doesn't sound like that is the case.

It just pings a server to see if there is a new version.. That is all.

If this is true, I would amend the text in the first post to say "This mod includes code that checks the existing version on startup, sends a http request to KerbalStuff which looks for the currently available version, and prompts you to download if a newer version exists. This update checking is disabled by default, but please opt-in as it prevents you from running outdated versions of the mod."

[Ratzap]

Erm, do you understand how the internet works? Curse logs your IP, as well as every other single website ever.

Yep and Curse have been around a long time. They have no interest in their log files and they know how to keep intruders out. Mediafire, Curse, Dropbox - not a problem because they are too big to care and any problems with data protection would cost them. Kerbalstuff I simply don't trust especially since it seems to have an intrinsic interest in harvesting information about KSP users. This mod is only available on Kerbalstuff, ergo no thank you.

KAC and several others also do phone homes - that's why I have KSP.exe forbidden any access in the firewall. The explosion in mods doing version checks is unpleasant but not necessarily a problem, not using a host I trust is (for me anyway and this is all about personal choice).

[forfeit]

Thanks for the update to make the version check opt-in, this mod is really useful with 0.24. Do you know if this works correctly with DarkMultiPlayer, or if random clients will get someone else's refunds?

[Xaiier]

Yep and Curse have been around a long time. They have no interest in their log files and they know how to keep intruders out. Mediafire, Curse, Dropbox - not a problem because they are too big to care and any problems with data protection would cost them. Kerbalstuff I simply don't trust especially since it seems to have an intrinsic interest in harvesting information about KSP users. This mod is only available on Kerbalstuff, ergo no thank you.

KAC and several others also do phone homes - that's why I have KSP.exe forbidden any access in the firewall. The explosion in mods doing version checks is unpleasant but not necessarily a problem, not using a host I trust is (for me anyway and this is all about personal choice).

I'm going to bypass the first paragraph because arguing over it isn't going to go anywhere.

As for information sharing and gathering, no information is being sent, saved, or stored on KerbalStuff, beyond the obvious and necessary IP to contact it. The api is exposed as JSON, and you are free to see what this mod is accessing, right at this link: http://beta.kerbalstuff.com/api/mod/57/latest

The content (in case you don't want to click)

{"changelog": "Disabling update check by default", "ksp_version": "0.24", "download_path": "/mod/57/DebRefund/download/1.0.12", "id": 128, "friendly_version": "1.0.12"}

I do not understand your concerns.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Xaiier

[SirCmpwn]

I'll explain some more about Kerbal Stuff and privacy.

I have Do Not Track enabled:

Note that Curse sends 35 third party tracker requests, and Kerbal Stuff sends none.

Also, Kerbal Stuff is made by a huge privacy nut (aka me), who also made MediaCrush - a site that is very serious about privacy (more, more, more, more). I have an established habit of making privacy-friendly websites. If you think Curse is better for privacy, you're out of your mind.

[joshblake]

Do you know if this works correctly with DarkMultiPlayer, or if random clients will get someone else's refunds?

DarkMultiPlayer funds/contract/etc. career support is still in progress. No data is synced on that front right now, so you'll always get your own refund.

[forfeit]

DarkMultiPlayer funds/contract/etc. career support is still in progress. No data is synced on that front right now, so you'll always get your own refund.

My concern is that multiple clients, each with a copy of the vessel debris to be destroyed, process the destruction and refund the credits. I'm not familiar with when/how the client decides to despawn or if this is even an issue.

[OrbitalDebris]

Thank you Vendan for adding the privacy info in the OP. And thank you SirCmpwn for maintaining a server that cares about its users privacy. This is how it starts, individual modders show they care about this stuff, and eventually it will become the normal and expected thing to do. This is incidentally also what happened with free software licenses, initially everyone just said "it's a free program, why do you care?" and now posting and complying with licenses is normal and expected.

[DMFirmy]

First of all, I really love this mod. Better recover handling is something that I feel should have been included in the base game along with the 0.24 update, and this mod does a really good job of handling this in a hands off and easy manner.

One thing that I think would really improve this mod is some ability to allow a stage to be ignored by DebRefund so that it can be landed and recovered using the normal recover tool in the Space Center. There are a few reasons that I have encountered already where one of my stages (for which I had a planned use) was recovered by this mod when I didn't want it to be, and I can imagine many others. For instance, earlier I was doing a rescue mission, and the rocket that I designed had 2 command pods, each attached to the main rocket body using decouplers. Since I am using the Deadly ReEntry mod as well, I wanted to make sure that both of my command pods could easily survive the reentry heating effects, so I equipped both of them with heat shields as well. Now as I am falling toward the surface, my intention is to decouple both of my command pods, deploy their chutes, and let them both drift safely to the ground. Once landed, each pod might have new science available, and I may want to take a surface sample or something with each of them. The problem is that if I follow one of the pods down to the surface, DebRefund recovers the other one preventing me from gaining any science from the Kerbal on board. I am also using the Final Frontier mod, and being recovered by the mod in this way is also preventing the Kerbals from earning their new badges (if any have been earned).

Just thought these items would be worth mentioning. Regardless however, this is still a fantastic addition to my mod list. Keep up the good work!

[Vendan]

First of all, I really love this mod. Better recover handling is something that I feel should have been included in the base game along with the 0.24 update, and this mod does a really good job of handling this in a hands off and easy manner.

One thing that I think would really improve this mod is some ability to allow a stage to be ignored by DebRefund so that it can be landed and recovered using the normal recover tool in the Space Center. There are a few reasons that I have encountered already where one of my stages (for which I had a planned use) was recovered by this mod when I didn't want it to be, and I can imagine many others. For instance, earlier I was doing a rescue mission, and the rocket that I designed had 2 command pods, each attached to the main rocket body using decouplers. Since I am using the Deadly ReEntry mod as well, I wanted to make sure that both of my command pods could easily survive the reentry heating effects, so I equipped both of them with heat shields as well. Now as I am falling toward the surface, my intention is to decouple both of my command pods, deploy their chutes, and let them both drift safely to the ground. Once landed, each pod might have new science available, and I may want to take a surface sample or something with each of them. The problem is that if I follow one of the pods down to the surface, DebRefund recovers the other one preventing me from gaining any science from the Kerbal on board. I am also using the Final Frontier mod, and being recovered by the mod in this way is also preventing the Kerbals from earning their new badges (if any have been earned).

Just thought these items would be worth mentioning. Regardless however, this is still a fantastic addition to my mod list. Keep up the good work!

DebRefund doesn't destroy any debris ever. It just catches stuff as it's being killed, and refunds based on it. If it hits DebRefund, there should be no way for you to manually land it at that point. Also, I do recover science, though I may need to see about a tie in for FinalFrontier kerbal stuff.

[DMFirmy]

DebRefund doesn't destroy any debris ever. It just catches stuff as it's being killed, and refunds based on it. If it hits DebRefund, there should be no way for you to manually land it at that point. Also, I do recover science, though I may need to see about a tie in for FinalFrontier kerbal stuff.

Thanks for the quick response. Oddly enough, I noticed while playing a bit later that the Kerbal in question actually WAS awarded their earned badges after completing the next mission they were sent on. They got the badges from the mission they were currently on as well as the ones earned in the previous mission when they were harvested by DebRefund.

[johnwayne1930]

@Vendan

Is it somehow possible to make a yearly ( Kerbal year) added funds budget? Maybe combined with the reputation system.

Not necessarily within this mod, but you seem to be the right person to ask for it.

Just as an idea.

[DasValdez]

From a simplicity vs functionality standpoint... this is one of the best mods released for KSP. A single DLL and a config file to fix a gaping hole Squad left in their .24 release... delivered a very short time after the official release. Whoever Vendan programs for IRL should give him a raise and a bonus.

A few ideas, just to document some brainstorming from IRC:

• Display landing distance from KSC in the recovery message... this would allow us to tweak our staging and trajectory for max recovery.
  
• A parachute calculator in the VAB to show how many more chutes we need to spam for a green recovery. Perhaps this could be added to KER for simplicity (it could then use the atmo stats to simulate landings on different worlds, beyond Debrefund's scope... will xpost to KER thread). Would probably need to assume that fuel is dry, or show wet/dry.
  
• Built into PEBKAC Electroshock Nodes to "treat" people who don't understand how the internet works but complain about privacy. Seriously? You spammed orders of magnitude more "personal information" into the ethertubes just by posting on the forum.
  

Thanks again to Vendan for the awesome mod!

[Vahal]

another download link would be nice.

For some reason I can't go to kerbalstuff whatever the browser I use

[CommanderJohnKoenig]

Two beers for Vendan for the quick response on the .24.2 update mod. Great work dude. Keep your pimp hand strong.

[Ruedii]

Is this mod compatable with FAR.

I've noticed a lot of mods that utilize drag information aren't.

This could be the reason for some other people's problems.

[Tobyz28]

Really like this mod. *bump* Simple, works!

Noticed a small bug with a BACC SRB - it showed up as -320 funds when recovered! (It had 1 sepatron and 1 mk16-XL parachute attached)

[kalizec]

Not entirely sure whether I've found a bug in this mod or not.

But I'm getting two 'recovered' messages for each recovered part and I'm also getting twice the funds.

I've added up all the contracts, both archived and current, and I've got more funds than I could've possibly gained.

I'm using DebRefund-1.0.12.

Modlist

MechJeb2

MechJebAllPods

KerbalEngineerRedux

EngineerAllPods

RealChute

DeadlyReentry

EditorExtensions

FerramAerospaceResearch

Higher_Part_Cost

KerbalJointReinforcement

KerbalAlarmClock

SelectRoot

KW Rocketry

PreciseNode

NavBallDockingAlignmnet

RemoteTech2

RLA_Stockalike

TacLifeSupport

Toolbar

First thing I'll try is disabling some of them to see whether I can reproduce it with just DebRefund (or some other mod).

[edit]

Did a quick test by starting a new Campaign. First launch with multiple stages == immediate doubling of recovered parts.

[edit2]

Found the project on Github. Made an issue for it.

Edited July 28, 2014 by kalizec

[Eleven]

With the radial decoupler bug, plugins like this are even more valuable, thanks!

[Boamere]

Uh hjave you seen stageRecovery? You came up with the the nice GUI first and now I look at stage recovery it looks very very similar now...

[BPI_Bel]

Is this mod compatable with FAR.

I've noticed a lot of mods that utilize drag information aren't.

This could be the reason for some other people's problems.

If you use RealChutes, that shouldn't be a problem, as RC uses its own drag code to deal with parachutes.

I would highly suggest DebRefund users consider using RealChutes - especially because that can greatly reduce the parts needed to recover heavier stages.