parts [1.12.x] USI Exploration Pack - Small parts, big adventure! [v 0.6.0]

[Errol]

Hey rover, I don't know if this was intentional, but the honey badger has RPM MFDs in it. A lot of them. Not a complaint, just a question, did the RPM mod add itself to my honey badger on its own?

[RoverDude]

Hey rover, I don't know if this was intentional, but the honey badger has RPM MFDs in it. A lot of them. Not a complaint, just a question, did the RPM mod add itself to my honey badger on its own?

It's a stock IVA

[Errol]

Must be one of the larger pods I never use. To be honest I end up using the TAL pod the most often, because it's light weight, takes three crew and I like to plan my missions to leave the ascent cockpits in orbit as additional workspace so I don't care that it has a low crash tolerance. I didn't realize one of the stock pods had such a sweet RPM IVA.....dang....I should play in there more.......so many shiny buttons........

[JedTech]

So I have a Packrat I just put together on Laythe. I am scared to upgrade due to "Bees". Any suggestions to save my rover on Laythe and upgrade too?

[goldenpsp]

So I have a Packrat I just put together on Laythe. I am scared to upgrade due to "Bees". Any suggestions to save my rover on Laythe and upgrade too?

if it was like the last time, the upgrade caused the came to almost freeze when entering focus with my packrat. But building a new one via KAS (I had a spare in my MKS base) it was fine.

so if you have a way to store it, I would disassemble and store it and then upgrade.

[JedTech]

if it was like the last time, the upgrade caused the came to almost freeze when entering focus with my packrat. But building a new one via KAS (I had a spare in my MKS base) it was fine.

so if you have a way to store it, I would disassemble and store it and then upgrade.

Great I will try that, thanks!

[AetherGoddess]

It's a stock IVA

which we previously discovered Mihara has already rewriten.

[Mischief]

You've broken me with this one RoverDude. I've started down the path of micro-vessels and can never go back. I have never bothered to collect all the scraps of science from every biome on Kerbal but now I've started on the mission to get practice with the duct fans and it's insanely fun. A bit odd to get used to but you're right - terribly nimble. A bit tricky to learn to land with but the think weighs nothing and it's not hard to make a TWR of 5+ on Kerbal exploration vehicle.

Here's my test pilot, Sherbert Kerman in the new Hopscotch exploration shuttle:

It's absurdly tiny. Here's one of her outside of it for scale:

Pretty much all the reusable science tools I could want plus some sensors and a drill for refueling along the way. It'll bop along at close to 200, which is about as fast as you want to get going at low altitude with FAR. I'm finding cool little islands and out of the way places on Kerbin I never even looked for before.

I like how the Karbonite micro-engine creates monoprop; my next toy is going to be trying to make the smallest possible Munar lander/return ship using a combo of monoprop and Karbonite fuel. It'll have enough to de-orbit and land safely, mine what it needs then huff it back up to Munar orbit and dock with a 'mother ship'. These things are so light and tiny it's literally more efficient to pack a micro-lander with all the prerequisite science gear to bop down to all the Mun/Minmus biomes then back up to a mothership with a science lab than to try and land and return from all of them on separate missions.

So many new cool toys come out of this. Very enthused. Thank you.

[Mischief]

Okay. Some other things I would suggest after having played with it a while -

The tiny generator needs to have mounting points on opposite sides, this way I can link them together if need be in a construction format without slight weight/drag imbalances. Especially with FAR these become very significant - especially if I'm making something with suicidally minimal tolerances.

There needs to be a square fuel storage container for Karbonite about the same size/shape as the tiny generator. Better form factor, better design options. The ducted fans work awesome with the generators and running off Karbonite makes it a slick concept but the smallest radial mounted Karbonite tanks hold 40 each and so you need a couple and they need radially mounted without any 'snap to position' options really, which makes them very difficult to balance for weight/drag.

A cubic tiny storage tank with about the same volume that's got 6 linking points so I can use them as a central block would be very beneficial and useful for making tiny ships with fans or Karbonite rocket engines and let me balance them far more efficiently. About the size of the double-carry cans but with linking points on all sides, or at least two sides.

Greatly appreciate all you do RoverDude, enjoying all the new toys!

[RoverDude]

Okay. Some other things I would suggest after having played with it a while -

The tiny generator needs to have mounting points on opposite sides, this way I can link them together if need be in a construction format without slight weight/drag imbalances. Especially with FAR these become very significant - especially if I'm making something with suicidally minimal tolerances.

There needs to be a square fuel storage container for Karbonite about the same size/shape as the tiny generator. Better form factor, better design options. The ducted fans work awesome with the generators and running off Karbonite makes it a slick concept but the smallest radial mounted Karbonite tanks hold 40 each and so you need a couple and they need radially mounted without any 'snap to position' options really, which makes them very difficult to balance for weight/drag.

A cubic tiny storage tank with about the same volume that's got 6 linking points so I can use them as a central block would be very beneficial and useful for making tiny ships with fans or Karbonite rocket engines and let me balance them far more efficiently. About the size of the double-carry cans but with linking points on all sides, or at least two sides.

Greatly appreciate all you do RoverDude, enjoying all the new toys!

Log an issue for the mounting points. Fuel storage wise, grab the Karry Kan from K+

[NWDogg]

I'm having some serious issues trying to fly any of the little ships I've built using the micro ducted-fans. Well, actually, the flying part is absurdly easy...it's the landing I can't figure out . I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to use the 'hover' function. I can land if I'm extremely careful with the throttle, but usually I come crashing down too hard or give it too much throttle and fly back up.

I've built a perfectly stable craft, set all of the action groups to toggle throttle, hover, engines, RCS, etc.. No matter what I try, hover just does not seem to work. It tends to fly up or down based on throttle input, but no matter what I do it will not 'hover'. Does anyone have some advice on how to use this function?

[RoverDude]

I'm having some serious issues trying to fly any of the little ships I've built using the micro ducted-fans. Well, actually, the flying part is absurdly easy...it's the landing I can't figure out . I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to use the 'hover' function. I can land if I'm extremely careful with the throttle, but usually I come crashing down too hard or give it too much throttle and fly back up.

I've built a perfectly stable craft, set all of the action groups to toggle throttle, hover, engines, RCS, etc.. No matter what I try, hover just does not seem to work. It tends to fly up or down based on throttle input, but no matter what I do it will not 'hover'. Does anyone have some advice on how to use this function?

Set an action groups for all engines:

- Toggle Hover

- Hover Height Up

- Hover Height Down

Turn on hover, use regular throttle for forward movement, switch to hover up/down to land.

[NWDogg]

Set an action groups for all engines:

- Toggle Hover

- Hover Height Up

- Hover Height Down

Turn on hover, use regular throttle for forward movement, switch to hover up/down to land.

Ok thanks. I've actually done exactly that. Unless I am grossly misunderstanding what 'hover' actually does, this just isn't working for some reason. Perhaps it is a problem in my install, but I doubt that. I'm leaning towards 'I have no idea what I'm doing' being the problem. I'll play around with it some more tonight after work...in the meantime, has anyone made a video flying a craft with these fans? Maybe if I see what others are doing to hover, I'll understand what I'm doing wrong.

[Errol]

I was trying out karbonite for a SSTO VTOL space plane and couldn't seem to get the low altitude scoops to provide anything other then intake atmosphere. I flew both high and low on kerbin and eve and never saw a single particle of karbonite. Am I doing something wrong?

Also, I think that the description of those scoops should also state that you don't need any stock air intakes to run karbonite jet engines, just one of those low altitude collectors.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Errol

[Fraz86]

Ok thanks. I've actually done exactly that. Unless I am grossly misunderstanding what 'hover' actually does, this just isn't working for some reason. Perhaps it is a problem in my install, but I doubt that. I'm leaning towards 'I have no idea what I'm doing' being the problem. I'll play around with it some more tonight after work...in the meantime, has anyone made a video flying a craft with these fans? Maybe if I see what others are doing to hover, I'll understand what I'm doing wrong.

Do you have "RCS" turned on? It seems to be necessary in order for the fans to properly function.

[Mischief]

How many fans do you have? It's tough to get stability on anything with any size with 2. 4 helps a lot.

It handles like a helicopter. Throttle controls altitude but it's not instant; more lag to changes than you get with a rocket. Try to get into a hover at 100-300 meters above your target. Get as stable as you can then throttle down slowly or use hover at that altitude then come down slowly.

A crash bag isn't a bad idea either; I've got one on the bottom of mine. Lets me get away with small, light-weight gear. Just don't forget to EVA and 'recharge' it after you pack it up or it won't work the next time. Here's a shot of it from the bottom. You can see the crash bag in the center. See how the fans are wide radial mounted and the gear off of them? Gives me a lot of stability for landing.

[NWDogg]

@Fraz86: Yeah, I have RCS on. Like I said, flying the thing is a breeze. And I can land, if I'm very very careful with throttle...but that hover just does not want to work.

@Mischief: I'm actually using 5 fans. 4 vertical, and one horizontal 'tail' fan, like a rudder. I set action groups for 'hover' on the 4 vertical fans (no need for the tail fan I assume, it's at 0 throttle limit, RCS only). I turn the engines on, and throttle up...I go up, obviously. I throttle down, I go down. I turn 'hover' on...it does nothing. I can manually hover, for a few seconds, if I play with the throttle a lot...but that hover function doesn't help here.

By nothing, I mean it has no perceivable effect, especially on the stability of my altitude (which is what I had assumed the feature did.) Maybe that's not what 'hover' actually does? If I go straight up to, let's say 300m altitude (with throttle at, say, 20%) and turn on hover...should my altitude stay there, then rise or fall by increasing or decreasing hover height? If so, that's not what it's doing. At a throttle level that increases altitude, the craft keeps going up, and at lower throttle it falls. If I cut (normal) throttle with hover on, or cut throttle then turn hover on, it falls. It never 'hovers' at the same altitude, like I thought it would. Is this how it is supposed to work?

Also, I thought maybe the 'hover height' is the desired altitude. So, doing all of above, I set 'hover height' to 300 (assuming both altitude from sea level and from surface), and again no effect at all. So I'm completely lost on these things. I absolutely love this mod, the crafts I've built fly beautifully. I just wish it were easier to land them, due to the 'lag' in the throttle response.

Edit: It appears an older version of Firespitter snuck its way into my install. I switched it back to the version included with the latest USI Exploration pack...but same behavior with hover. So I'm assuming now that it just simply doesn't work the way I thought it did.

Edited September 30, 2014 by NWDogg

[Thourion]

I havnt played as much as i wanted to with this mod, but on my little test flight with a craft similar to yours, although it has 3 verts and 2 horizontals.

For the hover to work, i used 100% throttle, anything else and it goes lower. When the ship starts to go higher i could see the thrust power in engines right click to automatically reduce. So give it a bit time, and just take care of your ship's attitude (nose up/down, yaw etc etc)

Edited September 30, 2014 by Thourion

[RoverDude]

@Fraz86: Yeah, I have RCS on. Like I said, flying the thing is a breeze. And I can land, if I'm very very careful with throttle...but that hover just does not want to work.

@Mischief: I'm actually using 5 fans. 4 vertical, and one horizontal 'tail' fan, like a rudder. I set action groups for 'hover' on the 4 vertical fans (no need for the tail fan I assume, it's at 0 throttle limit, RCS only). I turn the engines on, and throttle up...I go up, obviously. I throttle down, I go down. I turn 'hover' on...it does nothing. I can manually hover, for a few seconds, if I play with the throttle a lot...but that hover function doesn't help here.

By nothing, I mean it has no perceivable effect, especially on the stability of my altitude (which is what I had assumed the feature did.) Maybe that's not what 'hover' actually does? If I go straight up to, let's say 300m altitude (with throttle at, say, 20%) and turn on hover...should my altitude stay there, then rise or fall by increasing or decreasing hover height? If so, that's not what it's doing. At a throttle level that increases altitude, the craft keeps going up, and at lower throttle it falls. If I cut (normal) throttle with hover on, or cut throttle then turn hover on, it falls. It never 'hovers' at the same altitude, like I thought it would. Is this how it is supposed to work?

Also, I thought maybe the 'hover height' is the desired altitude. So, doing all of above, I set 'hover height' to 300 (assuming both altitude from sea level and from surface), and again no effect at all. So I'm completely lost on these things. I absolutely love this mod, the crafts I've built fly beautifully. I just wish it were easier to land them, due to the 'lag' in the throttle response.

Edit: It appears an older version of Firespitter snuck its way into my install. I switched it back to the version included with the latest USI Exploration pack...but same behavior with hover. So I'm assuming now that it just simply doesn't work the way I thought it did.

you want to have two more buttons mapped to raise or lower hover level. Then once you have enough thrust to at least get off the ground, control vertical movement with the two hover keys you set in your action groups.

[AetherGoddess]

you want to have two more buttons mapped to raise or lower hover level. Then once you have enough thrust to at least get off the ground, control vertical movement with the two hover keys you set in your action groups.

i just finished a helicopter survey of the KSC-Adjacent anomalies; here are some quick tips for rotary wing and other thrust balance craft: Use RCS Build Aid (which has engine support) to build something balanced, where the CoM is below the CoL, and there is no thrust torque. use helicopter controls: i.e. throttle controls altitude, pitch down and throttle up to go forward, level out and throttle down to maintain level flight, pitch back and throttle up to slow down. Q or E to rotate tail wise (most useful when hovering), A or D and throttle up to rotate roll ways and Strafe (or do a traditional bank turn like an aircraft when fast moving). You'll still need stabilizers, so put half-wings or tail fins, preferably far away from the center of mass, to keep the thing stable when moving and pitching.

[Milkshakefiend]

These parts are so much fun I've not really done any 'real' rocketing lately. I've just been building VTOLs and amusing little vehicles!

The Skeeter personal transport - 15 minute flight endurance from onboard Karbonite tanks, includes a vulcan cannon for discouraging late mergers and punishing people who don't indicate properly.

Enforcement Droid 210 'The Hornet' - When your property is too big for a pack of doberman, but too small to necessitate a Predator drone - there is the Hornet. 60 minute flight endurance, a giant spotlight, vulcan cannons and missiles. If it asks you to do something, you have 20 seconds to comply.

I may eventually get round to using these in a scientific manner, or I may just continue to blow things up. Either way, it's another RoverDude product that has entered my 'must-have' modlist.

[NWDogg]

Ok, so I finally figured out why 'hover' was not working! It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong...I was fairly frustrated when all the suggestions were to do things I was already doing. So I had some time to play around with it today, and I found out that the problem is with 'KIDS'.

Specifically, the 'Thrust varies with ISP' and 'Extend curve to zero' settings (not sure which one exactly, I'll test some more.) With these settings turned on, the hover feature ceases to function. As soon as I turned these settings off, the hover feature works exactly as I expected it to. The actual ISP scaling doesn't seem to matter...I tested it on the 'FAR to KSP, Universal' preset and it worked just fine.

I'm sure these fans weren't designed with these settings in mind, so it isn't a big deal, but I thought I'd let you know just in case someone else happens to come across this combination. If this was already common knowledge, then I apologize...I couldn't find anything about it. Thanks everyone for trying to help...I really should've looked at KIDS to begin with, but I was short on free time and thought maybe I was just using them wrong.

[undercoveryankee]

Ok, so I finally figured out why 'hover' was not working! It wasn't that I was doing anything wrong...I was fairly frustrated when all the suggestions were to do things I was already doing. So I had some time to play around with it today, and I found out that the problem is with 'KIDS'.

Specifically, the 'Thrust varies with ISP' and 'Extend curve to zero' settings (not sure which one exactly, I'll test some more.) With these settings turned on, the hover feature ceases to function. As soon as I turned these settings off, the hover feature works exactly as I expected it to. The actual ISP scaling doesn't seem to matter...I tested it on the 'FAR to KSP, Universal' preset and it worked just fine.

I'm sure these fans weren't designed with these settings in mind, so it isn't a big deal, but I thought I'd let you know just in case someone else happens to come across this combination. If this was already common knowledge, then I apologize...I couldn't find anything about it. Thanks everyone for trying to help...I really should've looked at KIDS to begin with, but I was short on free time and thought maybe I was just using them wrong.

My guess would be that the plugin decides what throttle setting to apply as a percentage of the engine's max thrust without checking whether something else has reduced the available thrust. Probably worth bringing up on the Firespitter thread.

[goldenpsp]

Ok I am a bit confused. I have had little time to play. I installed the latest experimental. I had a VTOL based around Rover's VTOL from his tutorial video. 4 horizontal fans and 2 vertical tail fans.

Now the first oddity is that when I loaded the ship, the fans were reversed. In that the 4 lift fans were vertical and the 2 vertical tail fans were horizontal. So I fixed the fans and tried to take it for a flight.

Even though the triangles were all facing the same direction, the 2 left fans blew down and the 2 right fans blew up, causing the ship to basically barrel roll flip over.

So I took all the fans off and added them from scratch, same issue. I also removed them and tried adding them with symmetry.

I figured I'd ask.

[RoverDude]

Ok I am a bit confused. I have had little time to play. I installed the latest experimental. I had a VTOL based around Rover's VTOL from his tutorial video. 4 horizontal fans and 2 vertical tail fans.

Now the first oddity is that when I loaded the ship, the fans were reversed. In that the 4 lift fans were vertical and the 2 vertical tail fans were horizontal. So I fixed the fans and tried to take it for a flight.

Even though the triangles were all facing the same direction, the 2 left fans blew down and the 2 right fans blew up, causing the ship to basically barrel roll flip over.

So I took all the fans off and added them from scratch, same issue. I also removed them and tried adding them with symmetry.

I figured I'd ask.

Fans were probably reversed because we finally fixed the orientation issue. Not sure why you'd have that issue, but I will take a look