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[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

RoverDude

By RoverDude
in KSP1 Mod Development

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Which logo style by Alexustas (on page 2) do you like best?  

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  1. 1. Which logo style by Alexustas (on page 2) do you like best?

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tygoo7

tygoo7

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ok! For the people with framerate issues... do you have anything else around that uses ORS???

Only MKS and OKS.

EDIT: I have Texture Replacer, I'll try without it.

EDIT2: Nope that didn't fix it. :P

Edited by tygoo7
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Raptor831

Raptor831

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Re: Chemical notation - When setting up the Real Fuels config, I decided on CH4NO2. So, in Kerbalese, KaH4NO2. I have no idea if that compound even exists, or could exist. Since we're talking about a magic substance that can make a bunch of fuels, that pretty much gave me everything I needed. Methane (CH4 or KaH4), O2, H2, N2O4, Nitrous Oxide (N2O), Water, and any Hydrazine derivative (carbon, nitrogen, and hydrogen depending). Pretty much anything I need. Have no idea where Xenon comes from out of that, but hey, khemistry is a dark magic.

And on that note, a question about the efficiency of the converters/distillers. The 1.25m distiller seems way underpowered compared to the 2.5m one. I don't have any playtesting under my belt yet, as I'm away from my KSP rig, but I ran the numbers doing my Real Fuels config. In terms of MonoPropellant made to Karbonite used, the 2.5m distiller is 50% and the 1.25m distiller is just below 10%. And since they're the same mass, it's not really efficient at all to use the 1.25m one, at least by the numbers.

Anyone else noticed this?

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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I tried it without Texture Replacer but that didn't change my framerate. Without this mod my framerate goes back to normal.

Try deleting the ORS folder inside of Karbonite and the one inside of MKS. See if one or both of those fix things. Back them up because you will want them later.

Re: Chemical notation - When setting up the Real Fuels config, I decided on CH4NO2. So, in Kerbalese, KaH4NO2. I have no idea if that compound even exists, or could exist. Since we're talking about a magic substance that can make a bunch of fuels, that pretty much gave me everything I needed. Methane (CH4 or KaH4), O2, H2, N2O4, Nitrous Oxide (N2O), Water, and any Hydrazine derivative (carbon, nitrogen, and hydrogen depending). Pretty much anything I need. Have no idea where Xenon comes from out of that, but hey, khemistry is a dark magic.

And on that note, a question about the efficiency of the converters/distillers. The 1.25m distiller seems way underpowered compared to the 2.5m one. I don't have any playtesting under my belt yet, as I'm away from my KSP rig, but I ran the numbers doing my Real Fuels config. In terms of MonoPropellant made to Karbonite used, the 2.5m distiller is 50% and the 1.25m distiller is just below 10%. And since they're the same mass, it's not really efficient at all to use the 1.25m one, at least by the numbers.

Anyone else noticed this?

Very possible, I'll do a balancing run. there should be an efficiency dropoff for the smaller generator, but it may be too harsh

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maxrsp

maxrsp

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Posted (edited)

Hi All,

I have been testing Karbonite ground mining extensively on .12 and can find no major issues :D I have no framerate issues, no parts functioning strangely, nothing. I'm running KSP 32-bit 24.2 with about 10 other mods installed but nothing that had other resources defined such as KSPI.

The only small issue I've found is with the landing frame which has some ground clipping instability. In many cases if one or more legs is clipping through the surface the ship will actually fall over; I have to feather some vertical thrust so it comes slightly above the ground and re-land then everything is fine.

Keep up the great work guys!

Edited by maxrsp
typo
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Raptor831

Raptor831

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Very possible, I'll do a balancing run. there should be an efficiency dropoff for the smaller generator, but it may be too harsh

Yeah, I would expect that the efficiency would drop for smaller ones. Was thinking that a 10-20% increase in efficiency per size increase, and about 1 ton mass increase per size would be about right. That way the larger ones are better but the smaller is still useful if you'd rather save the mass. Efficiency could come from both less E per output or less Karbonite used per output.

I made a spreadsheet with some possible numbers for the 1.25 and 2.5m versions, and a theoretical 3.75m version. Link here: view spreadsheet. As I said, this is not playtested, but the numbers "feel" good to me.

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BigFatStupidHead

BigFatStupidHead

Posted
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Yeah, I would expect that the efficiency would drop for smaller ones.

The opposite could be true. Larger industrial conversion processes usually use faster, less efficient reactions, whereas smaller laboratory scale conversions are often very efficient, but quite slow and unsuited for the large scale.

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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RELEASE CANDIDATE IS UP!

  • Updated colliders for the landing frame
  • Renamed/Reorganized all parts and folders
  • Tech tree integration - the parts are split accross a few relatively early nodes: fuelSystems, heavyRocketry, and aerodynamicSystems. Tanks are spread accross all three.
  • Updated masses/costs for all modules
  • Tweaked the relative efficiency of the smaller distillation module
  • Deprecated stock antenna support
  • Changed Karbonite to flow like RCS, etc. to reduce fuel line madness with colletors and converters

Go forth and test. I will add any last minute parts I get, but the intent is to release this pretty quick. Everything is in - titles, descriptions, costs, mass adjustments, and tech tree integration. Report bugs!

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Smurfalot

Smurfalot

Posted
Posted (edited)
Re: Chemical notation - When setting up the Real Fuels config, I decided on CH4NO2. So, in Kerbalese, KaH4NO2. I have no idea if that compound even exists, or could exist. Since we're talking about a magic substance that can make a bunch of fuels, that pretty much gave me everything I needed. Methane (CH4 or KaH4), O2, H2, N2O4, Nitrous Oxide (N2O), Water, and any Hydrazine derivative (carbon, nitrogen, and hydrogen depending). Pretty much anything I need. Have no idea where Xenon comes from out of that, but hey, khemistry is a dark magic.

And on that note, a question about the efficiency of the converters/distillers. The 1.25m distiller seems way underpowered compared to the 2.5m one. I don't have any playtesting under my belt yet, as I'm away from my KSP rig, but I ran the numbers doing my Real Fuels config. In terms of MonoPropellant made to Karbonite used, the 2.5m distiller is 50% and the 1.25m distiller is just below 10%. And since they're the same mass, it's not really efficient at all to use the 1.25m one, at least by the numbers.

Anyone else noticed this?

Carbonite (aka Methanediolate) is CHO2

http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.26945204.html

Edit:

RELEASE CANDIDATE IS UP!

  • Changed Karbonite to flow like RCS, etc. to reduce fuel line madness with colletors and converters


    What does this mean, specifically?
Edited by Smurfalot
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RoverDude

RoverDude

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u suck it from ANY part of rocket even within separators and other with no fuel crossfeed
It's all_vessel now; versus stack_priority. I.E. it'll pull from any tank and drop into any tank without the need for fuel lines.

Yup. Did it primarilly because of the collectors - it got real weird getting tanks to feed correctly, so better to have it less restrictive than to deal with all of the fuel line questions ;)

So has anyone tried it yet? :) Looking for some nods for the all clear before I release it to the unwashed masses...

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Nertea

Nertea

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I'd suggest actually using STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW for Karbonite if possible. It is still all vessel, but it tries to at least a bit obey staging rules, so would make a staged craft with Karbonite engines easier to deal with.

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Targa

Targa

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Posted

Trying it now. Just a quick test from the launchpad (I modified the Kerbin .png to give me Karbonite at KSC for the test), and I can say all seems to be functioning so far. Have yet to test the collector from space.

That being said, the power consumption of the drills... 2.5 megawatts? I deployed 11 solar panels and still couldn't keep one drill running for more than about 30 seconds. The Converter is a power-hog also.

I'd still love to see the ORS spheres replaced with cubes. Doesn't have to be you - just someone who has a way to decompile/compile .dll's. Will post more when I'm finished testing.

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RoverDude

RoverDude

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Trying it now. Just a quick test from the launchpad (I modified the Kerbin .png to give me Karbonite at KSC for the test), and I can say all seems to be functioning so far. Have yet to test the collector from space.

That being said, the power consumption of the drills... 2.5 megawatts? I deployed 11 solar panels and still couldn't keep one drill running for more than about 30 seconds. The Converter is a power-hog also.

I'd still love to see the ORS spheres replaced with cubes. Doesn't have to be you - just someone who has a way to decompile/compile .dll's. Will post more when I'm finished testing.

That's odd... I'll check, but no changes occured with power consumption

I'd suggest actually using STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW for Karbonite if possible. It is still all vessel, but it tries to at least a bit obey staging rules, so would make a staged craft with Karbonite engines easier to deal with.

Sold

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Smurfalot

Smurfalot

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The RC killed the 2 Drilling rigs I had deployed with the old parts, also the smaller in-atmosphere scoop seems to be missing. Going to try the new harvesters now.

Edited by Smurfalot
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RoverDude

RoverDude

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The RC killed the 2 harvesters I had deployed with the old parts, also the smaller in-atmosphere scoop seems to be missing. Going to try the new harvesters now.

Yep, I expect it did given all the parts moved to their final versions.

btw- i I can run a converter or a drill on four RTG's... which feels about right. Since we can get Karbonite almost anywhere, there has to be a penalty.. in this case, the penalty of needing lots of power, which I am ok with.

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