[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[TheFineLine]

For some reason my converters aren't making any fuel. Whats with that?

[Jagzeplin]

I noticed the changelog for 1.0 says to delete any dev version before installing. how do i know if my version is the dev one and if so which folders should i delete? karbonite comes with 4:firespitter,ORS,Umbra, and texture replacer. so i would delete them all and replace them with 1.1? that doesnt seem right since my Umbra folder within KSP has MKS and OKS stuff in it

[Smurfalot]

Question - why do the distillers have Karbonite as both an INPUT and OUTPUT_RESOURCE? If you're inputting 0.6, outputting 0.35, and getting 0.05 monopropellant for your trouble, how is that different from just inputting 0.25 and getting the same MP out...? Is there some process going on here I'm (very likely) not understanding?

In theory, they are distilling other gases out of the karbonite and returning a "more concentrated" karbonite with those gases removed-- thus the slight shrinkage.

Edit: 1.1 fixed it.

I am having one problem however, there is no context menu on the big distillers or the converters to turn them on, is the drill supposed to have an animation or particle effect?

You should also add a Karbonite specific addon for MKS/OKS that gives an ILM/ISM that can hold Karbonite based products, Mono, Xenon, LF/Oxy etc. so that we have a place to store these products in an appropriate colony module.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Smurfalot

[nli2work]

I noticed the changelog for 1.0 says to delete any dev version before installing. how do i know if my version is the dev one and if so which folders should i delete? karbonite comes with 4:firespitter,ORS,Umbra, and texture replacer. so i would delete them all and replace them with 1.1? that doesnt seem right since my Umbra folder within KSP has MKS and OKS stuff in it

just Umbra/Karbonite should be the one you want to delete. plus ORS.

firespitter just runs couple of engines, no need to delete/replace it. not sure about texturereplacer.

[Jagzeplin]

ok thanks very much

[RoverDude]

For some reason my converters aren't making any fuel. Whats with that?

Specificity or I can't help you. Do you have any Karbonite? How is it connected? Do you have context menus? Are you on the current version (0.1.1)?

I noticed the changelog for 1.0 says to delete any dev version before installing. how do i know if my version is the dev one and if so which folders should i delete? karbonite comes with 4:firespitter,ORS,Umbra, and texture replacer. so i would delete them all and replace them with 1.1? that doesnt seem right since my Umbra folder within KSP has MKS and OKS stuff in it

You can leave the MKS/OKS folder, but delete the Karbonite ones.

In theory, they are distilling other gases out of the karbonite and returning a "more concentrated" karbonite with those gases removed-- thus the slight shrinkage.

I am having one problem however, there is no context menu on the big distillers or the converters to turn them on, is the drill supposed to have an animation or particle effect?

You should also add a Karbonite specific addon for MKS/OKS that gives an ILM/ISM that can hold Karbonite based products, Mono, Xenon, LF/Oxy etc. so that we have a place to store these products in an appropriate colony module.

More specificity... can you convert or no? No menus at all? Screenshots and more context please. There is already an ILM/ISM that holds Karbonite The others would be just ones to hold generic resources - not opposed to it at all.

just Umbra/Karbonite should be the one you want to delete. plus ORS.

firespitter just runs couple of engines, no need to delete/replace it. not sure about texturereplacer.

TextureReplacer is my repeated attempt to slay that particular compatability demon

[RoverDude]

FYI - I just took a clean install, added in 0.19.3 of MKS/OKS, and built a base in 64-bit. I then installed Karbonite, overwrote any duplicates, created a Karbonite detecting sattelite and got within a few hundred meters of my orbital base. Switched back and forth, everything fully functional and responsive. So there looks to be no conflict from my end.

OH... and I'm moving this to showcase Looks like we have enough stuff and look stable enough for showtime

Edited August 4, 2014 by RoverDude

[Smurfalot]

More specificity... can you convert or no? No menus at all? Screenshots and more context please. There is already an ILM/ISM that holds Karbonite The others would be just ones to hold generic resources - not opposed to it at all.

Whatever it was, version 1.1 fixed it. And yes, I mean an ILM for the generic resources (that are produced from karbonite) just so I can keep the form factor the same for my colony instead of having ugly non-MKS trash tanks on my lawn.

[RoverDude]

Whatever it was, version 1.1 fixed it. And yes, I mean an ILM for the generic resources just so I can keep the form factor the same for my colony instead of having ugly non-MKS trash tanks on my lawn.

I endorse this worldview.

[Fiontar]

Still troubleshooting, getting close, I think. I've completely rebuilt my gamedata folder over the lest 24 hours, testing as I go and always using the latest versions freshly downloaded.

Right now, I think the problem isn't a bug in Karbonite, it's just that Karbonite adds an additional computational load when loading a complex ship/station and this is causing the graphics driver to time out. (Windows 8.1 64 bit).

I've got the station loading with Karbonite using 64bit KSP and D3D, by changing the video card power management from Adaptive to Performance. The OpenGL was still timing out, but I'm applying a registry tweak that may the OpenGL time out. Reboot, reload, will take a few. I'll report back and detail the registry tweak, if it fixes the issue.

Update1:

Registry tweak didn't help. It will load ok in KSP 64 D3D, but not with OpenGL.

I currently have texture replacer running without ATM. I'm changing texture unloading to "never" to see if that helps.

Update 2:

O.k., none of that helped. Further testing and it loads fine with KSP 32 OpenGL, but not KSP 64 OpenGL. Down the road it's something you might want to troubleshoot, to figure out what is causing the issue. It might be the current 64 bit client that is to blame, but I've got 65 mods currently and Karbonite is the only one with issues with KSP64 OGL. Latter, I can try to see if I can narrow the problem down with in the Karbonite install, (I did try deleting the Karbonite.dll, but I haven't tried any of the others).

Here is the latest error report, if you want to take a look:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spbe3p8fyrcx2vz/AAAf_Hp21VRb-2uokm_Iaarla

I know you have a lot on your plate and a 64bit OpenGL incompatibility may be a very back burner issue, so np if it has to wait.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Fiontar

[Smurfalot]

Still troubleshooting, getting close, I think. I've completely rebuilt my gamedata folder over the lest 24 hours, testing as I go and always using the latest versions freshly downloaded.

Right now, I think the problem isn't a bug in Karbonite, it's just that Karbonite adds an additional computational load when loading a complex ship/station and this is causing the graphics driver to time out. (Windows 8.1 64 bit).

I've got the station loading with Karbonite using 64bit KSP and D3D, by changing the video card power management from Adaptive to Performance. The OpenGL was still timing out, but I'm applying a registry tweak that may the OpenGL time out. Reboot, reload, will take a few. I'll report back and detail the registry tweak, if it fixes the issue.

I think I found your problem.

[RoverDude]

I think I found your problem.

What was it? I'm curious.

[DuoDex]

I noticed you didn't include my flag.

[Smurfalot]

What was it? I'm curious.

Sorry, bad joke...look at the quote in that earlier post.

[Shiv]

Is there a way to delete items off an already launched ship? Either through editing of files or in game without a bunch of rendezvousing? On all my satellites I included a Kethane scanner which is a problem now that I don't really use Kethane. I can't delete Kethane without deleting the satellites and I can't delete the satellites because they serve a function through RemoteTech as part of my communication network.

I'm aware I don't have to delete Kethane at all, but I'd like to to get rid of the popups and just for general house keeping.

[Sutima]

Is there a way to delete items off an already launched ship? Either through editing of files or in game without a bunch of rendezvousing? On all my satellites I included a Kethane scanner which is a problem now that I don't really use Kethane. I can't delete Kethane without deleting the satellites and I can't delete the satellites because they serve a function through RemoteTech as part of my communication network.

I'm aware I don't have to delete Kethane at all, but I'd like to to get rid of the popups and just for general house keeping.

Yes in the savefile, but trust me, you don't want to do that.... Not kidding......

Better to delete the Plugin and keep the parts for now until you can launch new satellites, if deleting stuff is your goal.

If you want to try your luck on OCD, Tears and more tears " name = kethane.sensor.1m " "name = kethane.highGain" BUT that might make stuff happen (or not).

THIS ->>>> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51029-How-to-delete-a-part?p=666425&viewfull=1#post666425

Make a backup of your KSP folder first, Then try this http://kerbaledit.codeplex.com/ Just tried it for you with success, but you need to make a backup of your entire KSP folder not just savefolder.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Sutima

[Fiontar]

I updated my previous post, including the error files for download.

The space station has a full compliment of OKS modules as outlined in the tutorial. That station crashes the game, with Karbonite installed, for KSP64 OpenGL. KSP 64 D3D, KSP 32 D3D and OpenGL seem fine. It's specific to the red-headed stepchild combo of 64 and OGL. As stated in the last update to my previous thread, not a high priority, but it might signal an error in the coding of one of the dll files that gets exposed under conditions not tested for during development. Up to you s to whether it's worth trying to figure out.

I'll do a little more troubleshooting to see if I can figure out what part of Karbonite is causing the issue, but after the time spent rebuilding and testing my GameData for 24.2, I'm probably going to shift focus to testing long term stability for the combination of 65 addons I have running now.

As to why test for the other client/rendering methods, I'm trying to find the best solution for running a lot of mods comfortably. OpenGL has a much smaller memory footprint than D3D, (for me, it's 1.585 GB with OpenGL vs. 3.482 for D3D). 64 bit increases the memory space I can fill. 64 bit OpenGL is the most dramatic combination and though the loading time for launches or switching to orbiting craft is longer, performance, for me, has been better. 32 bit OpenGL is fine, though, since with the reduced memory footprint I have a lot more breathing room before worrying about memory issues. 64Bit D3D would also work, but performance seems more sluggish.

After rebuilding my GameData carefully, I'm currently running with full size textures and no Active Texture Management, though TextureReplacer offers some modest compression of it's own. If I'm stable after a few days of play, I'll settle on a client/renderer combo and see what visual enhancements I can add and experiment with ATM a bit.

[Smurfalot]

Is there a way to delete items off an already launched ship? Either through editing of files or in game without a bunch of rendezvousing? On all my satellites I included a Kethane scanner which is a problem now that I don't really use Kethane. I can't delete Kethane without deleting the satellites and I can't delete the satellites because they serve a function through RemoteTech as part of my communication network.

I'm aware I don't have to delete Kethane at all, but I'd like to to get rid of the popups and just for general house keeping.

Best bet is to open the craft in the VAB and remove the kethane detector part and resave the craft before your uninstall the mod, otherwise it will break that craft file.

As for the ones already out in space... you can either kiss them good bye and launch new ones or you can leave that specific kethane part installed when you uninstall the rest of the mod so that the flights with that part attached do not disappear next time you load the game.

Yes you could try to edit the saved game to remove the offending parts from the crafts...but trust me it is not worth the hassle and you will probably end up wasting a whole lot of time trying to get it to work and still break your entire save in the process.

THIS ->>>> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51029-How-to-delete-a-part?p=666425&viewfull=1#post666425

OMG that is brilliant! I have already used Whack-a-Kerbal to remove the offending parts from 2 satellites! Alt+F12 happy shooting.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Smurfalot

[Mutifex]

Just thought I'd throw this up since I'm noting a bit of discussion re: 64bit KSP

I've been testing the whole time with 64 bit KSP. There hasn't been a test build of Karbonite yet that stopped working or did anything strange to performance. In fact if anything I noted an increase in performance over a certain alternative.

Given that I have just said that, KSP 64bit is itself horribly unreliable at this stage and should be expected to spit out strange results. VAB crashes can be a fairly common occurrrence and for me, attempting to run something like Active Texture Management will cause KSP to just constantly crash on load.

KSP 64 is great when it is working, but unusual results should be expected at all times. It is in a very raw "use at own risk" state.

[Fiontar]

Just thought I'd throw this up since I'm noting a bit of discussion re: 64bit KSP

I've been testing the whole time with 64 bit KSP. There hasn't been a test build of Karbonite yet that stopped working or did anything strange to performance. In fact if anything I noted an increase in performance over a certain alternative.

Given that I have just said that, KSP 64bit is itself horribly unreliable at this stage and should be expected to spit out strange results. VAB crashes can be a fairly common occurrrence and for me, attempting to run something like Active Texture Management will cause KSP to just constantly crash on load.

KSP 64 is great when it is working, but unusual results should be expected at all times. It is in a very raw "use at own risk" state.

I definitely get that. I think given the results I've had with OpenGL and the problems that can pop up with KSP 64, KSP 32 with OpenGL is probably going to be my platform of choice until official 64bit support is more stable.

At this point though, with this issue, I'm stubbornly stumped. I've tried troubleshooting it, but it appears if any part of Karbonite is installed, my OKS centered station crashes when using KSP 64 OpenGL. I just don't get it. I tried removing bits of Karbonite and only when everything is removed does the station not crash. It's just bizarre...

[Fiontar]

I found the fix for my problem. I don't know why this works this way, but hopefully it will be useful for RoverDude.

Reminder of my problem:

KSP 24.2 64-bit, OpenGL (Windows 8.1 64)

Saved game with Orbital Kolinization Station, numerous OKS segments.

With Karbonite Installed, loading that save = Crash when trying to load the station.

If any bit of Karbonite was installed, crash.

Solution:

Place Karbonite Folder in GameData Root, (rather than in UmbraSpaceIndustries).

Place karbonite.dll and USITools.dll in GameData Root, (rather than in UmbraSpaceIndustries).

Game loads fine, station loads fine, KSP64/OpenGL. Station also loads faster in KSP32 OGL.

I was also able to research and place Karbonite parts, so everything seems to be working.

I'm not a programmer, but I'm guessing there is a very good reason as to why the mod and it's components only work when placed in these locations and load quicker, as a result, in the client/render combos where they didn't cause a crash previously.

BTW, it's not just that they needed to be out of the USI folder, if they are anywhere but as described above, issues ensue.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Fiontar

[Shiv]

Just a heads up I guess: in the new version of Karbonite they took out the part called 'antenna' which of course breaks any designs you had that included it in it. So just copy and paste that file from your old karbonite install to your new one. Probably the same case for any other parts you might've used since the naming structure seems to have changed for the parts.

[sober667]

waiting for compabilyty for ex with stock intakes or interstellar ones to use precooler to extend a litlle bit abilities of them

or waiting for precooler in this mod (stock precooler is nice but look ugly why not make something fancy for thiese propose?or with other extra usage?)

there is small sense to use karbonite engienes fo SSTO in kerbin and its difficult to not burn them out in other planets

interstellar have compabillity within stock precooler it would be good to see something like that here (even if only within stack-engine)

Edited August 4, 2014 by sober667

[Mischief]

I've searched every post by RoverDude and just flat out couldn't find this, so gonna have to ask -

How do I get this to work with Scansat? It looks like some ModuleManager magic but I'm not seeing what I need to do or what goes where. I also seem to have ended up with .dlls for module manager for 2.1.5, 2.2.0 and 2.2.1. Not sure if I can delete the old ones without borking some of my mods.

Also getting a strange problem with the Karbonite scanner. I've got it on a sat in orbit and to start with I clicked on it, started scanning. When I tell it to 'show me hotspots' it gives me the little orange bubbles. I do however have 3 sats in orbit - each only shows me concentrations near it specifically. Then, strangely, it would no longer let me toggle the sensor on and off. It says that it's off, but it's still showing me the hotspots. If I try to toggle it on it seems to toggle on for a second, then is off again.

I am running x64 but otherwise I'm not sure why it hates me.

I deleted Kethane which vaped my prior scansat network, which is fine, it was all running dated tech anyway. I just want to make sure I'm not going to have to vape and replace this new loadout - in career mode that stuff costs money

So short version of what I need:

1. Info or direction to info on how to make Karbonite play with Scansat.

2. Karbonite sensors only showing local hotspots. Probably related to #1. I have 3 module manager version dlls in my gamedata too, cuz why leave borking my game up to chance, right?

3. After deployment and switching between sats it will not allow me to toggle the sensor off and on. It shows off but acts on.

4. Hotspots do not reflect locations identified by other detectors nor do they seem to keep data after switching away and back. Is it just a radius thing at the time?

Thank you for any help. I'm jazzed and excited about the design and direction this has taken and has inspired me to pick up TAC and MKS after I get a handle for Karbonite, resource management and exploiting KAS to scatter LIVING Kerbals through out my system, instead of the dead Kebals and debris I've generally packed it with in prior playthroughs.

[Phers]

I've searched every post by RoverDude and just flat out couldn't find this, so gonna have to ask -

How do I get this to work with Scansat? It looks like some ModuleManager magic but I'm not seeing what I need to do or what goes where. I also seem to have ended up with .dlls for module manager for 2.1.5, 2.2.0 and 2.2.1. Not sure if I can delete the old ones without borking some of my mods.

Also getting a strange problem with the Karbonite scanner. I've got it on a sat in orbit and to start with I clicked on it, started scanning. When I tell it to 'show me hotspots' it gives me the little orange bubbles. I do however have 3 sats in orbit - each only shows me concentrations near it specifically. Then, strangely, it would no longer let me toggle the sensor on and off. It says that it's off, but it's still showing me the hotspots. If I try to toggle it on it seems to toggle on for a second, then is off again.

I am running x64 but otherwise I'm not sure why it hates me.

I deleted Kethane which vaped my prior scansat network, which is fine, it was all running dated tech anyway. I just want to make sure I'm not going to have to vape and replace this new loadout - in career mode that stuff costs money

So short version of what I need:

1. Info or direction to info on how to make Karbonite play with Scansat.

2. Karbonite sensors only showing local hotspots. Probably related to #1. I have 3 module manager version dlls in my gamedata too, cuz why leave borking my game up to chance, right?

3. After deployment and switching between sats it will not allow me to toggle the sensor off and on. It shows off but acts on.

4. Hotspots do not reflect locations identified by other detectors nor do they seem to keep data after switching away and back. Is it just a radius thing at the time?

Thank you for any help. I'm jazzed and excited about the design and direction this has taken and has inspired me to pick up TAC and MKS after I get a handle for Karbonite, resource management and exploiting KAS to scatter LIVING Kerbals through out my system, instead of the dead Kebals and debris I've generally packed it with in prior playthroughs.

you need to be running the DEV version of Scansat. once you have that installed click on settings and select show resources / Karbonite.