The Mobile Processing Lab; is it fit for purpose?

[RogueMason]

First and foremost, I apologise if this has already been discussed somewhere, but I couldn't find any other threads about this.

Mobile Processing Lab is underpowered, needs to have greater increases on your Science transmission values instead of the meager 12% or 15% that I saw when using it. Discuss.

Now, in 0.23, we got this cool looking thing:

I didn't actually dabble in Career mode extensively until 0.24 released just a few days ago, so I'm not sure whether the Mobile Lab was any different to what we have now, but I'm rather concerned for its usefulness. Here's the story...

Rayke Kerman; first Kerbal on Minmus in the brand new 24^th Age. His lander, while it has the ability to return to Kerbin eventually, is designed primarily to work in conjunction with an orbital research station some 30km above the surface of Kerbin's second moon. The lab would further analyse the Science brought up so that the transmission value is very much increased, meaning that multiple landers need not be launched, thus saving our funds. Anyway, Rayke gathers a wealth of Science, proceeds back into orbit, and docks with the station. Expecting his bountiful haul of science to be almost completely transmitted, the crew are quite pleased.

That is until they realised they'd only get a meager 12% or 15% boost on the transmission values.

What. The. Kerbin?

Needless to say, Rayke was pi**ed, but Admin (another guy stationed there, and despite his name, he has very little authoritative power) volunteered to fly the lander home and recover every last drop of the precious Science so that Rayke could stay in orbit of our Minty Moonlet, but the whole lander-station scenario had been shot down before it could really get to work, making the future of the station uncertain.

...

So yes, I'm complaining about the Mobile Processing Lab. It's not often that I have a problem with KSP; usually I'm yelling at the Kraken to try and get it to go running off with its metaphorical tail between its metaphorical legs, but this... this is annoying me. Why does this state-of-the-art laboratory module not have the ability to boost the transmission values of collected Science to acceptable values? Another 12% on top of what is already 20% or 30% of the potential Science is rather poor. The best value I did see was a 25% boost for a temperature reading, and while halfway decent, it still wasn't good enough considering the cost of putting this station into orbit around Minmus for a very distinct purpose.

Personally, I'd expect at the very least a 45% increase on transmission values, with most being 50% or above. That may seem overpowered, but think about when you're venturing out to the planets; you don't want to go back and forth between Kerbin and Duna just to study each of the different biomes of the Red Planet (when such biomes are introduced on Duna and the other planets/moons), but you don't want to have gone all the way out into deep space only to get a few pitifully small transmission values before heading home having exhausted the Science potential of the planet/moon you spent a lot of cash visiting.

Put simply, I think the Lab is considerably underpowered at the moment. I certainly don't want the lab to become OP, but I do believe that bumping up the transmission boosts to the values I suggested would be beneficial. Otherwise, in it's current iteration, it's a near-useless piece of equipment. I'm not sure if there are plans to rectify this at any point, or if this is just your run-of-the-mill lab and we'll have shinier super-labs in the future, but whatever it is, this is the only lab we have at the moment and it is unfit for purpose.

You may think I'm insane to suggest any of this, but please be civilised with your death threats towards me (), and if possible, try to have a decent discussion. I'm not sure how many of you agree with me or how many of you actually like the current lab module, but these are my thoughts.

Again, I did look around to try and hitch-hike onto another thread, but I couldn't find any. If I missed one, point me to it

Thanks for putting up with me, and remember; on-topic discussion or civilised death threats only, please

[GusTurbo]

I agree, this thing needs a big boost to make it useful.

[Razor235]

I really only use it for cleaning out goo and material study experiments so I don't have to carry 20 of them over to the Jool system. Cuts down on craft size a lot.

[Stratzenblitz75]

Ahh, I'm guessing you don't fully understand the fine (tedious) art of grinding science. In KSP, you aren't supposed to transmit anything (except crew reports and eva reports). What you're ACTUALLY supposed to do is:

Step 1: Activate all your science instruments

Step 2: EVA your Kerbal

Step 3: Once in control of the Kerbal, move him to a science instrument and right-click it, then click "take data"

Step 4: Repeat step 3 for all science instruments.

Step 5: Board the command pod, (This will store all your science results in the command pod)

Step 6: Move science instruments to next biome

Step 7: Repeat steps 1-6 until you have sufficient science reports

Step 8: Return command pod to Kerbin and recover your science

You see, the MPL is a very powerful tool in your science grinding toolbox as it allows you to reuse the otherwise "1-use" Science jr. and Mystery goo container.

With this in mind, your lander-station combo should work quite well. Simply send your lander to the surface, get science, put science in command pod (which can store infinite science reports, but no duplicates), return to station, clean mystery goo and science jr. experiments and refuel, send the lander to another biome.

Repeat until you have enough science reports to max out the tech tree, then return the command pod back to Kerbin and recover it to get your science.

....

As you can probably tell, I'm very dissatisfied with the way science is implemented in the game. I think you should get 100% value for transmitting things like temperature readings and gravity scans while you would need a MPL to transmit science from Goo containers and surface samples. Even then, this is just scratching the surface of how I think science could be improved...

[Worst at Video Games NA]

I've actually never once used this thing ... When I unlocked it in career mode I was excited because more science! But then I read up on what it did and I thought "Well, this doesn't seem particularly effective..."

I feel like the science-specific techs in general really drop off in significance after the Science Jr. Unlocking barometers far down the tech tree just to get 10 dinky extra science or whatever feels really bad.

[Col_Jessep]

I send one to Minmus. It would have been less of a hassle to just build a lander with a lot of science bays and goos. Cheaper too since the lab is expensive, large and fragile. Recovering it intact will be a challenge to say the least. It really needs a buff. Now that we have to pay for parts more than ever.

[UberFuber]

I send one to Minmus. It would have been less of a hassle to just build a lander with a lot of science bays and goos. Cheaper too since the lab is expensive, large and fragile. Recovering it intact will be a challenge to say the least. It really needs a buff. Now that we have to pay for parts more than ever.

That's why you don't try to recover the lab itself.

This is what I did for Mun and Minimus for max science recovery.

A lab ship with the lab + metric-tons of fuel. This is your mothership.

A small lander with all the scientific instrument, with a command module for kerbal.

All two are docked together during transit to Mun.

Once at Mun, I do the following.

1. Stick the entire thing in polar orbit.

2. Fuel up the lander.

3. Target a biome, land, do all the science for that biome.

4. Take off and dock with the lab.

5. Transfer all science to lab, clean the Science and Material pod.

6. Repeast step 2 until you're almost out of fuel (leave enough for the tug's return trip) or out of science.

Once you're done, do the following.

1. Dock lander to mothership and Return back to Kerbin.

2. EVA, and take ALL the science out of the lab and put them back into the lander.

3. Detach the lander, and land it back on Kerbin.

4. Recover for all those sweet, sweet science.

To reuse the mothership. Just relaunch the lander and refuel the mothership (might need a second launch if your mothership has a lot of fuel capacity).

The key here is that the lab, once in orbit, never gets back down to ground. You use smaller, more durable command pods to shuttle the science back to ground.

With this, I managed to grab nearly ALL the sciences from Muns and Minimus in three launches (two for Muns, due to need to refuel, and one for Minimus).

[Superfluous J]

UberFuber, you didn't explicitly state it so I'm not sure if you do this too, but the only thing I can add to this discussion is that you save even more money if you send the lab to Mun to scour its science riches, and then send the SAME LAB to Minmus so you don't have to launch a second one. Then, when it's time to go to Jool, send that SAME LAB there. Minmus orbit to Jool orbit (Say, orbit around Tylo) is only a couple thousand dV if you do it right.

In fact you can send the lab from Mun to Minmus, then from Minmus to Jool, for less than it would take to get a new lab just into LKO from the launch pad.

Edited July 22, 2014 by 5thHorseman

[Godot]

Ahh, I'm guessing you don't fully understand the fine (tedious) art of grinding science. In KSP, you aren't supposed to transmit anything (except crew reports and eva reports). What you're ACTUALLY supposed to do is:

...

This one ...

in the last version I used one in a station around Mun ...

MPL + Tanks for Monoprop + Fuel + Oxidizer that would be delivered by Tankers and enough Lifesupport for 3 Kerbals for more than a year (playing with TAC Lifesupport) + 2 Habitats ...

Reusable Lander that would go between surface and station (wiht all available experiments), to deliver science to the return ship (which also delivered crew and lander first time)

and the return ship would finally return to Kerbin in order to deliver the science.

Will do it in 0.24 again ... especially in 0.24, now with budget ...

according to my calculations in the past versions (0.23/0.23.5) this concept already paid out after 4 Mun Landings (i.e. in form of less costs per mission).

I wouldn´t do it for other planets/moons due to the scarcity of Biomes on them ... although, an exploration station on Jool would be thinkable (due to the masses of Moons there) or a science base in Orbit around Kerbin (so that interplanetary missions could put their science there, refill and reset their instruments and go on another mission ... and I would have less trips down Kerbins Gravity well in order to deliver the science)

[MKI]

What is said above basically covers the most effective use of the lab in the current game.

Changing the system now isn't worth it, simply because more things need to be added to the game that will directly affect the Lab in career mode.

Simply put, the game still needs to be fleshed out. There will be more planets, moons, and biomes all in the future. Each one gives more viability to the Lab as a long duration station.

I'm fine with the current situation with transmission values. Simply put probes shouldn't ever do as much work as a Kerbal mission. Until life support is implimented (if it ever is) Kerbal missions should be the main object of the game as a whole, where as probes are useful only as an cheap option. This might not make much sense when it comes down to certain science readings, such as the tempeture readings. But It does push players to using Kerbal manned missions that are defiantly going to come back. Which is always better than sending out multiple probes on a one way trip.

[RogueMason]

Interesting. There are some ideas here that I'll be investigating. My apparent lack of know-how regarding KSP's Science system meant I missed that you could store all the science in a pod. My station may well survive this disaster after all

Of course, it's going to need a new lander now. The other one did go home, after all

[Michaelo90]

Cleaning out experiments is really the only use for it right now. I actually think that thermometer, barometer, accelerometer and gravity detector data should have a 100% transmission rate, because it's just a number. Surface sample, goo, material bay and atmosphere analysis should probably have at least 50% when processed, or people will just bring it back home instead.

[Sky_walker]

AFAIK: Processing requires 2 Kerbals onboard to get full bonus.

If you have any Kerbal on your ship - you want to bring him back home.

If you will bring him home - you might just as well skip the processing lab all together and bring the materials back long with Kerbal for maximum science points.

Sorry, but processing lab in a current form makes no sense. It'd need a huge revamp, not just an increase of a percentage reward for transmitting.

[Godot]

AFAIK: Processing requires 2 Kerbals onboard to get full bonus.

If you have any Kerbal on your ship - you want to bring him back home.

If you will bring him home - you might just as well skip the processing lab all together and bring the materials back long with Kerbal for maximum science points.

Sorry, but processing lab in a current form makes no sense. It'd need a huge revamp, not just an increase of a percentage reward for transmitting.

Well, as it was said multiple times ... the main reason to have a processing lab isn´t its bonus to transmitting, but rather its capacity to refill scientific experiments

It isn´t meant to be installed on single ships, but rather on larger bases / space stations

[Sky_walker]

Well, as it was said multiple times ... the main reason to have a processing lab isn´t its bonus to transmitting, but rather its capacity to refill scientific experiments

It isn´t meant to be installed on single ships, but rather on larger bases / space stations

Only you see:

1. It's nothing a new player can figure out on his own.
   
2. You usually, if not always, want all of the science as soon as possible.
   
3. It's much quicker and more efficient (though more expensive... might be more expensive - lab costs 4k) to simply return the lander back home than land it on a space station, drop experiments, then wait till enough stuff is onboard to make it worth while to send the lab back home.
   
4. There's a huge abundance of money and science in the game so any savings you might have done thanks to the processing lab - are meaningless from a gameplay point of view.
   
5. New contracts system made it even more important than ever before to progress through the tech tree as quickly as possible, because this allows you to get more contracts, and therefore earn money more quickly. So delaying the whole process by gathering samples in a lab on the station is even more pointless than before.
   

Edited July 22, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Godot]

Only you see:

1. It's nothing a new player can figure out on his own.
   
2. You usually, if not always, want all of the science as soon as possible.
   
3. It's much quicker and more efficient (though more expensive... might be more expensive - lab costs 4k) to simply return the lander back home than land it on a space station, drop experiments, then wait till enough stuff is onboard to make it worth while to send the lab back home.
   
4. There's a huge abundance of money and science in the game so any savings you might have done thanks to the processing lab - are meaningless from a gameplay point of view.
   
5. New contracts system made it even more important than ever before to progress through the tech tree as quickly as possible, because this allows you to get more contracts, and therefore earn money more quickly. So delaying the whole process by gathering samples in a lab on the station is even more pointless than before.
   

I disagree with 2 ... you have no running costs, therefore, aside from your own greedyness, there is no reason to have all science as fast as possible.

With regards to 3 ... using a space station with an MPL is more cost efficient if you have enough Biomes which your Lander can visit (don´t think this has changed between 0.23/23.5 and 0.24) ... it may not be as time efficient (considering the building and shipping of station and fuel) as single missions ... but not everyone wants things as quickly as possible ... and there is no reason to have things as fast as possible, see my comment to 2.

With regards to 4 ... seems like there is an abundance of money for us veterans ... but according to several threads here and on Steam (where players complain about bankruptcy) , not everyone seems to get to money as easy as we do (nonetheless, the rewards for contracts may be something which could be tweaked, so that e veterans don´t get such an abundance of money as we do now )

With regards to 5 ... I disagree ... it seems to me that the contracts system rather is guided by reputation ... more reputation -> more and better contracts

All in all your rants seem to indicate rather, that there is nothing wrong with the MPL ... it just doesn´t fit your playstyle ... just as for me, for example, the Jet Engines are of no big use, as I only rarely build atmospheric planes.

And that´s IMHO nothing bad ... we have an abundance of parts, so everyone can select among these parts those, that fit best to his/her playstyle ... not every part has to be useful for everyone

Edited July 22, 2014 by Godot

[Kerbart]

It depends what your angle is on playing KSP. If your goal is to maximize the yield of every mission (science/contract wise) then there's little need for the MPL. Of course there's little need for anything as you can unlock the entire tech tree in two missions, as Scott Manley has shown.

If you play KSP with a bit of a role playing angle, the MPL gets more and more useful. In the past it mainly served as a reason to have a sizeable space station with a science mission.

Now you can use it to do science in orbit or on the surface when a contract asks for it, reset the experiment, and get funding as science for little effort and cost (once the MPL station is in place). Of course you can do the same with a thermometer readout but that doesn't feel like something a Kerbal Korporation would be willing to pay $30,000 for, where a goo experiment in orbit sounds much more realistic in that sense. Again you don't have toâ€â€there's plenty of scientific experiments that don't need resetting in the MPL but for me it's just more fun doing it that way.

[Sky_walker]

I disagree with 2 ...

you have no running costs, therefore, aside from your own greedyness, there is no reason to have all science as fast as possible.

It's not a greedyness - it's just how progress works in the game. Look: point 5.

With regards to 3 ... yes, it is more efficient if you have enough Biomes which your Lander can visit (don´t think this has changed between 0.23/23.5 and 0.24)

True. If you build a large lander with lab and very few science instruments - it will be beneficial. Though this way you're also missing on a contracts and, well, let's face it: how many players make a landers with science labs?

With regards to 4 ... seems like there is an abundance of money for us veterans

I'm not a veteran. Just started this game month ago. And I'm swimming in resources.

but according to several threads here and on Steam (where players complain about bankruptcy)

There wasn't a single post I recall when someone would actually complain about bankrupcy (just one guy intentionally forced himself to bankruptcy - but that wasn't a normal gameplay) - all these people you talk about complain about having low amount of cash, and it was like 5 of them on this forum from what I remember. That's overwhelmed by a few dozens of posts with people complaining about the amount of cash they swim in and how game gives way too much resources to the player (that includes also science). Examples? Something from today, right on top of the general discussion forum: 1 (new player) and 2.

not everyone seems to get to money as easy as we do

People still got weird habits from previous versions like building mega-rockets to do simplest tasks, or sending ships capable of orbital flight to do an atmospheric or sub-orbital missions. It'll take some time till everyone who played an old version of the game will switch to the new one.

With regards to 5 ... I disagree ... it seems to me that the contracts system rather is guided by reputation ... more reputation -> more and better contracts

Both are factors in the equation, but as long as you have positive reputation - going through the tech tree is the best way to progress in finances and the reputation.

All in all your rants seem to indicate rather, that there is nothing wrong with the MPL ... it just doesn´t fit your playstyle... just as for me, for example, the Jet Engines are of no big use, as I only rarely build atmospheric planes

I don't know how you made that up, but it makes no sense. And it's not a rant - just stating what I see in a game.

It depends what your angle is on playing KSP. If your goal is to maximize the yield of every mission (science/contract wise) then there's little need for the MPL.

So.. you use processing lab if you want to be inefficient? It's like a crippling factor in a game - and playing while crippled is suppose to be an 'angle on playing KSP' ? This only reassures me that MPL is a broken part that requires significant rework.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Godot]

It's not a greedyness - it's just how progress works in the game. Look: point 5.

True. If you build a large lander with lab and very few science instruments - it will be beneficial. Though this way you're also missing on a contracts and, well, let's face it: how many players make a landers with science labs?

...

OK, it seems like you didn´t read the postings in the thread, so I might have to reiterate this once again:

Noone says anything about a large lander with a MPL.

What we are talking about is a spacestation, for example orbiting Mun.

This spacestation has Resources (like Fuel and Monoprop, maybe with Lifesupport, if you use mods like TAC Lifesupport)

This spacestation also has an MPL and several docking ports

You fly spacestation and resources into lower munar orbit

and then a spaceship (i.e. with crew) which has a reusable lander coupled to it.

Now, all you have to do is fly the lander to a Biome, do your experiments, return to the spacestation, store the experiment results in the spaceships capsule, reset the experiments (and refill the lander with fuel), then return to munar surface (in another Biome) and so on ...

finally (when you think you have enough science stored in the spaceship) you fly the spaceship back to Kerbin and get hundreds of sciencepoints for everything you collected.

All this mostly with just flying between Munar Surface and the orbiting munar space station (aside from the 3-4 flights between Kerbin and Mun in order to get the spacestation there, the spaceship + lander and finally return the spaceship to Kerbin after you have collected masses of data from multiple Biomes on Mun

Whereas with single missions you would have to, for every munar Biome: first fly from KSC to Orbit, then from KSC orbit to Mun, Land on Mun, get back to munar Orbit and then return to Kerbin orbit (and land on Kerbin)

Edited July 22, 2014 by Godot

[Sky_walker]

Whereas with single missions you would have to, for every munar Biome: first fly from KSC to Orbit, then from KSC orbit to Mun, Land on Mun, get back to munar Orbit and then return to Kerbin orbit (and land on Kerbin)

Yep. That's quicker than doing a docking operations for each flight to the moon and back.

Also note that landing on a planet is a good chance to catch some additional contracts to complete on a Mun or Minimus surface making the whole process not only notably quicker but also significantly cheaper thanks to all the "test parts" contracts that you will do out there and you cannot while flying a single reusable lander.

Sorry, but going to the moon, coming back, synching orbits with a station, orbital rendezvous, docking there, moving experiments around, refueling... it's just a waste of time while you might make a return to kerbin on a maximum time acceleration, then quickly pick new contracts, attach parts, hop back into rocket and get another landing done.

Quicker, gives you science in more regular and manageable intervals (especially important for new players, but also as mentioned: it makes progression in the game much more efficient), gives you money more quickly, doesn't require so much effort.

Using processing lab in it's current form is just crippling yourself.

(BTW: I'm talking here about stock game)

[UberFuber]

UberFuber, you didn't explicitly state it so I'm not sure if you do this too, but the only thing I can add to this discussion is that you save even more money if you send the lab to Mun to scour its science riches, and then send the SAME LAB to Minmus so you don't have to launch a second one. Then, when it's time to go to Jool, send that SAME LAB there. Minmus orbit to Jool orbit (Say, orbit around Tylo) is only a couple thousand dV if you do it right.

In fact you can send the lab from Mun to Minmus, then from Minmus to Jool, for less than it would take to get a new lab just into LKO from the launch pad.

I did leave the lab in space. Only the lander part returned. The lab + fuel-tank remain in orbit.

The reason for the Kerbin -> Mun -> Kerbin -> Mun -> Kerbin -> Minimus flight plan is due to the fact that the fuel-tank on my mothership was running dry while at Mun (It's a single orange tank), and I'm by no mean the most efficient of pilot.

[Godot]

Yep. That's quicker than doing a docking operations for each flight to the moon and back.

Also note that landing on a planet is a good chance to catch some additional contracts to complete on a Mun or Minimus surface making the whole process not only notably quicker but also significantly cheaper thanks to all the "test parts" contracts that you will do out there and you cannot while flying a single reusable lander.

Sorry, but going to the moon, coming back, synching orbits with a station, orbital rendezvous, docking there, moving experiments around, refueling... it's just a waste of time while you might make a return to kerbin on a maximum time acceleration, then quickly pick new contracts, attach parts, hop back into rocket and get another landing done.

Quicker, gives you science in more regular and manageable intervals (especially important for new players, but also as mentioned: it makes progression in the game much more efficient), gives you money more quickly, doesn't require so much effort.

Using processing lab in it's current form is just crippling yourself.

(BTW: I'm talking here about stock game)

But Mun has enough science to complete the whole tech tree (at least it has been this way in past versions ... I guess it is stil the case) ...

if you are about filling the tech tree as quickly as possible then it is easier to do this on Mun ... with or without contracts

(what would you care about contracts if your lander is reusable with no additional costs on the Mun station) ...

much less time consuming than flying to other planets, even if it is just Duna or Eve.

And according to what you said befoe that´s what it is all about for you, i.e. filling the tech tree as fast as posible ...

You have faster completed your tech tree by milking all Biomes on Mun, than by doing even a single mission outside of the Kerbin-System.

As for Mods ... yes, this may be different for us both ...

I use, among others, Deadly Reentry, FAR and TAC Lifesupport to mmake it a little bit more realistic than stock game

[Kerbart]

So.. you use processing lab if you want to be inefficient? It's like a crippling factor in a game - and playing while crippled is suppose to be an 'angle on playing KSP' ? This only reassures me that MPL is a broken part that requires significant rework.

If you define "wanting to be inefficient" as "enjoying the game while playing it, instead of a blind numbers-driven race to bring in as much science and funds with each mission" then yes, I want to be inefficient.

Personally I think it's horribly inefficient to play KSP if you all you want to do is play the numbers. The stock market is a much better place for that. Me? I just like building stuff in space, making large space stations and challenging myself with docking and landing procedures. So I'm very glad that there is a "science lab" part that i can include in my stations. Please explain to me why that is inefficient? My goal is to enjoy the game. MPL helps me with that. Sounds very efficient to me.

[UberFuber]

Yep. That's quicker than doing a docking operations for each flight to the moon and back.

Also note that landing on a planet is a good chance to catch some additional contracts to complete on a Mun or Minimus surface making the whole process not only notably quicker but also significantly cheaper thanks to all the "test parts" contracts that you will do out there and you cannot while flying a single reusable lander.

Eh... most of the docking you do should NOT be around Kerbin (if you're constantly traversing to the Mun/Minimus... you're not using the lab to its max potential). It's more efficient to get the lab to orbit around Mun/Minimus. Preferably polar orbit, so you don't need any plane change to reach all biomes. Most of your docking would be around Mun/Minimus which is extremely delta-V efficient.

Sorry, but going to the moon, coming back, synching orbits with a station, orbital rendezvous, docking there, moving experiments around, refueling... it's just a waste of time while you might make a return to kerbin on a maximum time acceleration, then quickly pick new contracts, attach parts, hop back into rocket and get another landing done.

As I said, you don't use lab around Kerbin to do science on Mun. You push the lab to Mun.

Quicker, gives you science in more regular and manageable intervals (especially important for new players, but also as mentioned: it makes progression in the game much more efficient), gives you money more quickly, doesn't require so much effort.

Using processing lab in it's current form is just crippling yourself.

(BTW: I'm talking here about stock game)

Then design your lander with ability to transmit (and double up on material pod for max science, doubling up Science Jr. would help, but you might not want to pay for the added mass on the lander).

In my case, my lander design is like this.

2x material pod, 1x every other science part (excluding parts that only works in an atmosphere).

On landing, run all experiment. Transmit everything except for Science Jr and one of the material pod.

Rerun all experiment that got transmitted.

Launch and dock with the orbiting lab ship. Store experiment and clean out material pod/science jr.. And repeat at different biome.

You get a steady stream of science even during your mission, plus one big lump sum at the end of your mission.

Granted, this was back in 0.23. In 0.24 with the budget system, the efficiency might change. Although you can argue that it would be a lot "cheaper" since it requires a lot less launches.

Edited July 22, 2014 by UberFuber

[ThirdHorseman]

That's why you don't try to recover the lab itself.

This is what I did for Mun and Minimus for max science recovery.

A lab ship with the lab + metric-tons of fuel. This is your mothership.

A small lander with all the scientific instrument, with a command module for kerbal.

All two are docked together during transit to Mun.

Once at Mun, I do the following.

1. Stick the entire thing in polar orbit.

2. Fuel up the lander.

3. Target a biome, land, do all the science for that biome.

4. Take off and dock with the lab.

5. Transfer all science to lab, clean the Science and Material pod.

6. Repeast step 2 until you're almost out of fuel (leave enough for the tug's return trip) or out of science.

Once you're done, do the following.

1. Dock lander to mothership and Return back to Kerbin.

2. EVA, and take ALL the science out of the lab and put them back into the lander.

3. Detach the lander, and land it back on Kerbin.

4. Recover for all those sweet, sweet science.

You can even save time by not storing the SCIENCE! in the lab at all...just save it directly to the lander's command pod. So in step 5. above you just need to clean the Material Bay and Goo and leave all the SCIENCE! in the lander.

This thread has some points on using the lab. This post has a pic of my SCIENCE! lander...