[1.0.5] Science Containers v.08.3

[SirDargon]

Depending on how your rewrite works (how you define how much science can or can't be stored in a part), it's actually pretty easy to use TweakScale to make it so that a given value (let's call it ScienceCapacity) scales with part size.

Assuming that your module's name is SirDargon'sModule, and that the variable you want to control within that MODULE{} is ScienceCapacity, you could write a config with this in it:

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS

{

name = SirDargon'sModule

ScienceCapacity = 3

}

^^^^^^ That code will tell TweakScale to modify a MODULE{} that looks like this:

MODULE

{

name = SirDargon'sModule

ScienceCapacity = 92830515.85 (or whatever value)

}

... and the result would be that the amount of ScienceCapacity in the part will scale in proportion to its volume. Halve the size of the part = 1/8 the ScienceCapacity, double the size of the part = 8 times as muhc ScienceCapacity. The "3" is an exponent applied to the factor by which you are rescaling the part (factor of 1/2 and 2, respectively, in my example), then multiplied by whatever ScienceCapacity the part originally had.

You could change that exponent too, though, or you could even define specific values for ScienceCapacity at a given part size. Depends on what you want to do.

Hmmm... Interesting.... Not sure if I really wanna do that as that would (I presume) break balance with this PartModule. But I'll look more into it once I've got the basic mod released.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Hmmm... Interesting.... Not sure if I really wanna do that as that would (I presume) break balance with this PartModule. But I'll look more into it once I've got the basic mod released.

Not necessarily. It's also something you can do purely via MM config, no need to hard code anything - the mass of the part would also scale with its volume, and the same with electric consumption, so there'd be a downside to having a huge science hard drive too. If the 1.25m version was mass 1, held 10 science data, and consumed 1 EC per hour, the 2.5m part would be proportionally identical (mass 8, holds 80 data, consumes 8 EC per hour). But you could do whatever you wanted to those numbers, and you could even specify that the part must consume 98.3 EC/hour when it's 2.5m, but only 17.2 EC/hour when it's 3.75m. Then again, it really might create crazy imbalances that I am not thinking of.

EDIT: Really though, to clarify, the benefit (if you do want to use TS) is that you could create one part, one texture, and have that same part work on any size craft and for any amount of data depending on how big the user wants to scale it.

Edited December 18, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[SirDargon]

Not necessarily. It's also something you can do purely via MM config, no need to hard code anything - the mass of the part would also scale with its volume, and the same with electric consumption, so there'd be a downside to having a huge science hard drive too. If the 1.25m version was mass 1, held 10 science data, and consumed 1 EC per hour, the 2.5m part would be proportionally identical (mass 8, holds 80 data, consumes 8 EC per hour). But you could do whatever you wanted to those numbers, and you could even specify that the part must consume 98.3 EC/hour when it's 2.5m, but only 17.2 EC/hour when it's 3.75m. Then again, it really might create crazy imbalances that I am not thinking of.

Hmmm... That does sound nice... I'll really look into it cuz that'll help remove the need for me to make a size for every version of the hard drive... as I was look at a possibly more efficient drive either every or every other science tier.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Hmmm... That does sound nice... I'll really look into it cuz that'll help remove the need for me to make a size for every version of the hard drive... as I was look at a possibly more efficient drive either every or every other science tier.

Hmmm.. as for the efficiency, I think you'd still need a second part - unless you specifically wanted to simultaneously unlock a bigger part size and have the bigger size be more efficient, which is totally doable. You can (I think) define what tech levels allow you to scale to what sizes... though I'd have to look into that.

That said, you could still have fewer parts - you could have one part with a certain efficiency ("V1"), and maybe a certain texture, unlock at tech node A, and have it be scalable up and down however you want. You could then have a second, more efficient part open up at tech node B, also scalable up and/or down, but then you'd just have two parts instead of 6, let's say - 0.625m V1, 1.25m V1, 2.5m V1, ... 0.625m V2, 1.25m V2, etc.

[SirDargon]

Hmmm.. as for the efficiency, I think you'd still need a second part - unless you specifically wanted to simultaneously unlock a bigger part size and have the bigger size be more efficient, which is totally doable. You can (I think) define what tech levels allow you to scale to what sizes... though I'd have to look into that.

That said, you could still have fewer parts - you could have one part with a certain efficiency ("V1"), and maybe a certain texture, unlock at tech node A, and have it be scalable up and down however you want. You could then have a second, more efficient part open up at tech node B, also scalable up and/or down, but then you'd just have two parts instead of 6, let's say - 0.625m V1, 1.25m V1, 2.5m V1, ... 0.625m V2, 1.25m V2, etc.

That's exactly what I was referring to. For the 1st version, there would only be a semi bulky part (like a cube) and inefficient (and I'm thinking of making its storage volatile), then v2 there would be more cylindrical ones that fits better and would be more efficient, then V3 would be a slimmer cylindrical part (closer to the size of the ASAS parts), and a radial mountable part. V4 would be much very slim cylindrical part, a smaller and very aerodynamic radial mount, and a probe core. Each part would be resizable via TS.

[IllicitMedic]

Suggestion: A container that can be grabbed by a Kerbal so I can take one with me on EVA to collect multiple samples. This would be so amazing

[SirDargon]

Suggestion: A container that can be grabbed by a Kerbal so I can take one with me on EVA to collect multiple samples. This would be so amazing

Via KAS, yeah that was another one I was think of.

[SirDargon]

Update: I have a completed plugin. It works, but I'm not happy with the lack of control you have with the data. You tell it to collect and it collects, but which data 1st? Random, largest 1st, smallest 1st. etc? When this mod had infinite capacity, order wasn't an issue. What if you want to transfer a specific ScienceData from one drive to the other? You have no control.... Currently, I have no parts except for the test part right now, and I don't plan on actually adding any real parts until I'm happy with it...

[BNSF1995]

Gave this mod a whirl in 0.90.0, and this is now a mod I cannot live without. It makes science collection SOOOO much easier, and has practically put an end to the dangerous practice of collecting data via EVA (I still have to EVA in the time before I unlock the containers).

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Update: I have a completed plugin. It works, but I'm not happy with the lack of control you have with the data. You tell it to collect and it collects, but which data 1st? Random, largest 1st, smallest 1st. etc? When this mod had infinite capacity, order wasn't an issue. What if you want to transfer a specific ScienceData from one drive to the other? You have no control.... Currently, I have no parts except for the test part right now, and I don't plan on actually adding any real parts until I'm happy with it...

It wouldn't be "realistic" (whatever that means) or nearly as good, probably, but if you want to avoid the problem of order, I guess you could ignore data size and instead just store a certain number of experiments per part (if that's even possible), assuming it's going to be horrible to try to figure out a complete storage solution where you can choose what goes in, take stuff out, rearrange, etc.

[SirDargon]

It wouldn't be "realistic" (whatever that means) or nearly as good, probably, but if you want to avoid the problem of order, I guess you could ignore data size and instead just store a certain number of experiments per part (if that's even possible), assuming it's going to be horrible to try to figure out a complete storage solution where you can choose what goes in, take stuff out, rearrange, etc.

I do want it to be semi realistic as I play using many of the mods that add more realism (but not too much, I personally feel RSS goes too far for my taste). So, what I'm doing instead of cramming everything into the right click menu, I'm going to be creating a manager window where you can select EXACTLY what science data is transferred and EXACTLY where to. It's just too much to put in a right click menu.

Edited December 19, 2014 by SirDargon

[SirDargon]

I'm glad you enjoyed the mod. The next version will be adding some "features" to the mod by having things like a max capacity, power usage and (for low tier versions) volatile memory.

[SirDargon]

I added a poll, because I wanted to see what people really wanted out of this mod. If very few people want all this extra fancy stuff, there's no point in adding it, and I can get to working on another mod that'll have a bigger presence in the game.

[Superfluous J]

I added a poll, because I wanted to see what people really wanted out of this mod. If very few people want all this extra fancy stuff, there's no point in adding it, and I can get to working on another mod that'll have a bigger presence in the game.

And with 1 return, 100% say they don't care about realistic drives.

In fact I'd go one further, the only thing I want is to be able to right click pods and collect all science into them. I love this mod because it (with a modman config) removes the drudgery of having to EVA a Kerbal around to all my experiments and whatnot.

[SirDargon]

And with 1 return, 100% say they don't care about realistic drives.

In fact I'd go one further, the only thing I want is to be able to right click pods and collect all science into them. I love this mod because it (with a modman config) removes the drudgery of having to EVA a Kerbal around to all my experiments and whatnot.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm thinking of just removing all "my" parts and just MMing a module into all the capsules and cores.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I'm thinking of just removing all "my" parts and just MMing a module into all the capsules and cores.

Having to put an extra part on the ship (extra mass) is a nice balancing effect too, though - more mass, but easier operation of a given vessel. But not strictly necessary, except that if you did the MM option for cores, that would mean probes could now collect tons of science results whereas only kerbals could before...

Dunno if that's important. Maybe you could patch it in for pods, but require a part for unmanned stuff (so that probes would have to have a little more mass in exchange for the new functionality)? Just random thoughts.

[SirDargon]

Honestly, when I made this mod, I wasn't planning on releasing it to the public and I just wanted something to collect all my data with. I feel I'm spending too much time on a mod that will only be used for a relatively short period of time in a game. Once the tech tree is all unlocked, this how no use. I want to focus more of my time on creating a mod that would have use either through out the entire game, or more so late game.

[SirDargon]

Having to put an extra part on the ship (extra mass) is a nice balancing effect too, though - more mass, but easier operation of a given vessel. But not strictly necessary, except that if you did the MM option for cores, that would mean probes could now collect tons of science results whereas only kerbals could before...

Dunno if that's important. Maybe you could patch it in for pods, but require a part for unmanned stuff (so that probes would have to have a little more mass in exchange for the new functionality)? Just random thoughts.

I could also make the module itself have more mass that would be added to the mass of the core/capsule if it really is an issue. I can also add an extra cost to them. I can also make it where ou can select whether you want the collector added or not int eh editor, so you don't have to have them weight a bit more or cost more if you don't want to be able to auto collect to them.

Edited December 21, 2014 by SirDargon

[Tahib]

Update: I have a completed plugin. It works, but I'm not happy with the lack of control you have with the data. You tell it to collect and it collects, but which data 1st? Random, largest 1st, smallest 1st. etc? When this mod had infinite capacity, order wasn't an issue. What if you want to transfer a specific ScienceData from one drive to the other? You have no control.... Currently, I have no parts except for the test part right now, and I don't plan on actually adding any real parts until I'm happy with it...

How about a different approach? Take a look at BTSM, it adds a rightclick-menu to every science module, allowing the player to send collected science to a pod. A popup menu to select which experiment to add would be another option. Or just give it a default setting, smallest amounts first.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I would say that for me personally, an updated, lightweight plugin combined with parts like you had in .07.1 would be perfectly functional and would cover all the bases: part costs something, adds mass, makes it so that you have to make a slightly larger craft in order to get the additional functionality, therefore gives a slightly greater challenge if you want to return experiments to Kerbin, etc. - and I also found the ASAS model and the others worked pretty well. If you really wanted to, you could fiddle with textures a bit or something, but no need to reinvent the wheel.

If you want to limit capacity, I'd say just pick a number of experiments (doesn't matter how much data) each container can hold, vary that by part size, and then don't worry about moving science around: simply give a right-click option on the drives to "collect" and then, when collecting, you get to pick the experiments you put in the drive. Once they're in, they're in.

Just options, I guess, but it sounds like you could at least apply your plugin to the parts you already had set up and make an "official 0.90 version" (with infinite storage - I mean, pods have infinite storage right now, don't they?) quickly while thinking over whether or not the other details are worth it.

[SirDargon]

Science Containers v.08 for KSP .90 has been released!

[GunTuga]

What happen to the re-skin / re-model parts project?

EDIT: The mod folder has a typo

Edited December 21, 2014 by GunTuga

[Badsector]

Is possible add this module to science-lab ?

[SirDargon]

Is possible add this module to science-lab ?

That's actually a VERY good idea... I'll add it and update the download today.

Edited December 21, 2014 by SirDargon
found the typo

[SirDargon]

v.08.1 is out with some minor changes:

Fixed typo in mod folder

Removed a test print

Added Science Container to Science Lab