[1.0.5] Snacks! Kerbal simplified life support v0.3.5

[tgruetzm]

I like the idea of using mobile lab for baking snacks, although my thoughts for it are slightly different: the lab needs surface sample, electricity and a small amount of LF\OX to bake snacks. One sample should be sufficient for 10 snacks (more or less, user can edit amount in config). Baking takes some time (1 Kerbin hour, configurable) and will replenish snacks in mobile lab; you need to transfer them into another pod\fridge manually.

My current thought on this is somewhere between yours and passinglurker's. I really like the idea of using surface samples to produce snacks. I'm thinking the Kerbal can take a sample and identify how viable it is for snacks(on eva). Certain planets and locations would offer better efficiency at production. The idea being you may need to wander around the planet a bit to find a more viable sample. The sample would then be grown/baked/I don't really know the exact premise I'll use yet. There would be no way to setup a completely autonomous self-sufficient base. Kerbals would always be required to find samples to produce snacks. I think the sample to snack ratio should be high enough that you don't spend hours gathering samples, yet not so high that you have no work in finding viable samples.

[passinglurker]

I like the idea of using mobile lab for baking snacks, although my thoughts for it are slightly different: the lab needs surface sample, electricity and a small amount of LF\OX to bake snacks. One sample should be sufficient for 10 snacks (more or less, user can edit amount in config). Baking takes some time (1 Kerbin hour, configurable) and will replenish snacks in mobile lab; you need to transfer them into another pod\fridge manually.

There are a few problems with that. First being its completely unsustainable especial since it needs LFO and while resupply missions are cool at first especially unplanned ones a constant stream of launches and interplanetary transfers to the same place gets tedious after a while and the the part count from the adding all those supply craft to your base is going to add up it should be possible to achieve some degree of sustainability before the novelty of the mod begins to wear off. Second if you make the surface sample yield to few snacks even if you make the warm up take a short period of time with will become horribly tedious to resupply a base by baking your own snacks especially if the lab is in orbit and not docked to an asteroid because a crew pod can only carry one sample from a given biome at a time and no one wants to see some one stack lander cans or spam command seats to make some sort of surface sample ferry. Finally without KAS attaching craft to make surface bases is tricky, and given you presently have to jump through hoops to get kAS to work it shouldn't be required or relied on.(admittedly easy hoops yes but still hoops)

[passinglurker]

My current thought on this is somewhere between yours and passinglurker's. I really like the idea of using surface samples to produce snacks. I'm thinking the Kerbal can take a sample and identify how viable it is for snacks(on eva). Certain planets and locations would offer better efficiency at production. The idea being you may need to wander around the planet a bit to find a more viable sample. The sample would then be grown/baked/I don't really know the exact premise I'll use yet. There would be no way to setup a completely autonomous self-sufficient base. Kerbals would always be required to find samples to produce snacks. I think the sample to snack ratio should be high enough that you don't spend hours gathering samples, yet not so high that you have no work in finding viable samples.

woop woop feature creep alert! of course with my talk of warm up periods I might be just as guilty

anyway its probably best for simplicity if players didn't need to learn about and memorize a planets different traits to get by a more general set of rules like planets that are further from kerbin yield more viable samples could still work though. I think a self sufficient colony should be possible but not be as simple as it seems with randomized yields you can't always rely on your harvests to always pull you through without sending up a serious amount of hardware (in which case why not reward the player for their dedication to colonization?) that way players don't need to focus their whole routine around constantly supplying a duna base beyond running the farms but it will make them come back to it from time to time when there is a crop failure and making the choice between resupplying sending more labs or taking the rep hit. Making you trek very far around the planet togather different samples would ultimately require fuel powered engines which also leads to players inevitably having to focus on establishing a constant tedious stream of supply instead of going out and doing other kerbally stuff.

[veryinky]

I'd go with Lab able to generate snacks, based on it's current situation. Requires lab to be crewed.

Orbit:

2000/s power = 1 snack/s

Landed (airless):

1000/s power = 1 snack/s

Landed (atmosphere, no oxygen: Duna/Eve)

500/s power = 1 snack/s

Landed (atmosphere, oxygen: Kerbin/Lathe, maybe special case for minmus since it's apparently made out of icecream)

100/s power = 1 snack/s

[TheKutKu]

I already love this mod! And please, don't add new parts, it is better IMO without new parts. However, other mods that add habitation modules should be compatible.

[tgruetzm]

I already love this mod! And please, don't add new parts, it is better IMO without new parts. However, other mods that add habitation modules should be compatible.

Other habitable modules up to 10 kerbal capacity should get snacks added via module manager automatically. Do you see some that are not?

[DGatsby]

Question. You say: "-Kerbals consume about 1/2 snack per day(Kerbin day). However since snacks are randomly consumed through out the day(on average twice a day)".

So, they have 1/2 snack per day twice a day. Meaning they eat 1 snack per day, somewhat randomized.

Why not just say: "Kerbals consume about 1 snack per day, with slightly randomized consumption." That would be much simpler to understand.

[tgruetzm]

Question. You say: "-Kerbals consume about 1/2 snack per day(Kerbin day). However since snacks are randomly consumed through out the day(on average twice a day)".

So, they have 1/2 snack per day twice a day. Meaning they eat 1 snack per day, somewhat randomized.

Why not just say: "Kerbals consume about 1 snack per day, with slightly randomized consumption." That would be much simpler to understand.

You're right, it's a bit goofy to understand. It's not 1 snack per day either though. How often they eat ends up being important too, since penalties are applied during the snack time. I updated it to the following:

"Kerbals randomly consume snacks on average every 3 hours, 1/4 snack each time. This averages to 1/2 snack per Kerbin day or 2 snacks per Earth day."

Edited August 17, 2014 by tgruetzm

[DGatsby]

Cool! That's much easier to understand.

[biohazard15]

Looks like I've found a potential mod conflict.

L-Tech also uses resource called "Snacks" - for its Skylab. The only difference between the two is cost - L-Tech snack costs 3, while yours cost 1.

[passinglurker]

On the subject of snack generation in retrospect maybe it would be the simplest to make what's needed for base building its own mod like the relationship between TAC life support and MKS. All that is needed for career play is the means to get around the solar system using the lab as a simple snack stretcher instead of as a generator would get that done. Whether a base is sustainable or not it needs a bit more then just snack generators it also needs a way to transfer resources between landed base buildings without complex rover wheel and docking port arrangements or KAS, and a way to monitor the snack supplies from a distance and alert you when they are running low. without those quality of life features managing an off world land base could grow unfun eventually. Orbital doesn't have these limitations but there isn't a lot of places to get samples for the variable viability mechanic idea.

Looks like I've found a potential mod conflict.

L-Tech also uses resource called "Snacks" - for its Skylab. The only difference between the two is cost - L-Tech snack costs 3, while yours cost 1.

That mod still hasn't updated to 0.24.2 On one hand they used the name first and the world would be a happier place if you didn't have multiple resources with the same name. On the other they use the resource for something completely different it again isn't 0.24.2 compatible, and this is one of those few times where resource density actually matters because its a question of whether to make the resource massless.

[cuthu]

Might be worth taking a look at "Better than starting Manned" which has a similar "simple" life support system with only a single resource. Been balanced over a while so probably has some ideas (e.g. regen, increased efficiency) worth looking at for how to balance this sort of life support.

[biohazard15]

That mod still hasn't updated to 0.24.2 On one hand they used the name first and the world would be a happier place if you didn't have multiple resources with the same name. On the other they use the resource for something completely different it again isn't 0.24.2 compatible, and this is one of those few times where resource density actually matters because its a question of whether to make the resource massless.

True words. I've made a post in L-Tech thread. It is an active mod, so let's wait and see. I really like both mods, and I don't want them conflicting with each other.

[Krevsin]

This is a great mod! Thanks.

One suggestion, though: Could you update the OP with some screenshots? As it is now, it looks kinda plain.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Krevsin

[Arsonide]

This is not getting enough attention! This is awesome, and much more in line with the complexity of the original game. Back to the top of the forums with you.

[Renegrade]

This is not getting enough attention! This is awesome, and much more in line with the complexity of the original game. Back to the top of the forums with you.

You're right. It does fit in very well with both the complexity, but also the levity of the original game too, and it's lore. I'm actually running a snacks-powered variant of my current playthrough right now

[Superfluous J]

I've been staunchly avoiding life support mods because they're too complex. I have no desire to handle my Kerbals' solid waste disposal issues.

However, I really want to feel the bite of RemoteTech's limits, and without life support you can always just send Kerbals instead of a probe wiht almost no detriment.

You've made a very good middle-ground here and I'm going for it. However I have an issue or a suggestion with it:

Or could we have a config option so the Kerbals die if they run out of snacks? I want the penalty for not planning ahead to be harsher than an essentially inconsequential rep hit. If I don't bring enough fuel, I can't get home. If I don't bring enough food, its sad but I think the guys should die.

With this change, though, you DO need a way to generate snacks, either to supplement a long mission or make a permanent base. Like has been suggested, a simple addition to the science lab seems perfect and if we could tweak it to our liking all the better. Another thought, maybe give this ability to the cupola too to justify its cost and encourage its use where it seems to be tailored: On space stations.

[passinglurker]

I've been staunchly avoiding life support mods because they're too complex. I have no desire to handle my Kerbals' solid waste disposal issues.

However, I really want to feel the bite of RemoteTech's limits, and without life support you can always just send Kerbals instead of a probe wiht almost no detriment.

You've made a very good middle-ground here and I'm going for it. However I have an issue or a suggestion with it:

Or could we have a config option so the Kerbals die if they run out of snacks? I want the penalty for not planning ahead to be harsher than an essentially inconsequential rep hit. If I don't bring enough fuel, I can't get home. If I don't bring enough food, its sad but I think the guys should die.

With this change, though, you DO need a way to generate snacks, either to supplement a long mission or make a permanent base. Like has been suggested, a simple addition to the science lab seems perfect and if we could tweak it to our liking all the better. Another thought, maybe give this ability to the cupola too to justify its cost and encourage its use where it seems to be tailored: On space stations.

If you want lethality without a barrage of resources there is also the Interstellar life support mod not to be confused with the wildly popular interstellar technology mod.

[tgruetzm]

5thHorseman, you're not the first person to want a lethal option. I'm considering adding this as a configurable option(disabled by default), mostly because this is spun as a life support mod and secondly its not very much effort to do. That being said, I think it would be cruel to release a lethal option without better visibility into supply levels across the solar system.

Snack generation is also a work in progress. I plan to do it as long as it doesn't mean slap on a few extra parts and you have infinite life support. You'll see what I have planned soon enough.

[Renegrade]

I'm considering adding this as a configurable option(disabled by default)

I'd love that option too.

Snack generation is also a work in progress. I plan to do it as long as it doesn't mean slap on a few extra parts and you have infinite life support. You'll see what I have planned soon enough.

Both of these things are good news

Lookin' forward to cooking up some snacks in the future

[JPL1980]

how about turning surface samples into snacks? or the snack generator only working when on the surface of a planet or attached to an asteroid? the idea being the snack generator needs a source of soil

Two words: Mystery Goo. The Mobile Processing lab should have a Kerbal Kitchen that can turn Mystery Goo Containment Unites, or Samples from same, into Snacks!

[KerbMav]

Two words: Mystery Goo. The Mobile Processing lab should have a Kerbal Kitchen that can turn Mystery Goo Containment Unites, or Samples from same, into Snacks!

Disgustingly good idea!

[Renegrade]

Two words: Mystery Goo. The Mobile Processing lab should have a Kerbal Kitchen that can turn Mystery Goo Containment Unites, or Samples from same, into Snacks!

Disgustingly good idea!

Yeah, ew, but good idea, hehe.

Might be best not to let the rest of the crew know where their snacks are comin' from.

[veryinky]

I'm using slightly modded Mobile Processing Lab that can convert 100 Electric Charge into 1 Snack per second if the vessel status is "landed" (with a modified version of the Resource Generation Module dll). Means spaceships and stations aren't independent but colonies (or resupply landers) can be.

[passinglurker]

I'm using slightly modded Mobile Processing Lab that can convert 100 Electric Charge into 1 Snack per second if the vessel status is "landed" (with a modified version of the Resource Generation Module dll). Means spaceships and stations aren't independent but colonies (or resupply landers) can be.

define "modified version of the Resource Generation Module dll" you mean one you modified and compiled yourself?