Mod-Oriented Tech Tree (Aug 3, v0.3.3 bug fixes)

[Dr. Jet]

I realy like to see where it's going. Maybe I'll just use it instead of implementing my own tree.

Especially nice is that most manned parts are deeper in tree and unmanned parts are shallower. Maybe you should make a next logical step and remove Mk1 Pod from start node replacing it with Stayputnik?

Also it's very nice to see that stock nodes are in places to support non-included mods. On the other hand, old descriptions do not always fit the new content of nodes.

[dtoxic]

It at least has plans to be worked on. School is not encouraging progress though. If I don't get updates by the end of this month, there will definitely be a big update in December.

I'm curious about this too since I have not really had a chance to play with 0.25 yet.

well then school first then ksp if you ask me

btw ill give it go this week see if there is a problem with "vessel recovery" and post my findings here

[scerion]

Especially nice is that most manned parts are deeper in tree and unmanned parts are shallower. Maybe you should make a next logical step and remove Mk1 Pod from start node replacing it with Stayputnik?

I disagree. That step would just be making it like the mod starting off unmanned than manned. And so there's a mod for that, we don't need this tree to be that.

[DaveS]

TechManager is now included in the download. The tree should work with 0.25.

I hope I can get around to updating this sometime soon. The next changes I plan on making are fixing support for Interstellar 0.13, and reorganize spaceplane parts now that SpacePlane+ is stock.

Hi. The changes you are going to make to fix Interstellar support, is that why it's not currently possible to get out the tree as far as the Warp Drive tech (I forget the name of the node)? And will it be possible to get there either with Near future technologies, or without?

[cvod]

The last time I updated the part placement, Interstellar was "dead" and so I resorted it for Interstellar Lite. So the Interstellar Parts probably appear where they would in the stock tree (haven't checked).

You can unlock all the Near Future stuff without Interstellar, and the Near Future parts stop before the Interstellar fusion/warp drive nodes. Conversely, you do not need Interstellar to unlock all the Near Future parts. Does that answer your question?

[DaveS]

Yup, it does. I had expected (based on how I think it worked with an earlier version of your tree) to find the warp drive way out at the end in a 10000 science node. But, if you've resorted it, that would explain why I couldn't find it where I thought it would end up.

Oh... and... This is really good, I like it, and think I'll restart my game with this tree soon.

[cvod]

Okay, I've updated it to have Interstellar 0.13 support. I just copied and pasted from an old version via text editing. It's rough, but should hold people over until an actual update.

[Shad0wCatcher]

Thank you cvod. Really liked the layout of this tree.

[Dr. Jet]

I disagree. That step would just be making it like the mod starting off unmanned than manned.

Which is realistic. Kerbals want to go to space, but at the beginning they don't know what will meet them there - behind the sky and how they should prepare for the flight. They should launch at least couple of unmanned missions to find it out and be able to design something capable of delivering living kerbals.

Thus USA Explorer was measuring radiation levels, soviet Sputnik-1 was measuring temperature and pressure, Sputnik-2 was a test of experimental basic life support system along with monitoring living object condition (Mystery Goo experiment in KSP terms)... All those early unmanned missions IRL gave a precious knowledge needed to start a basic manned programms like Gagarin's flight.

And that's by any means better then "launching" a single pod for kerbal "taking samples" at the launch site. They could do it without a pod actually.

And so there's a mod for that

Which is full of annoying "features" in addition to the tree - like making most pods unsuitable for space travel not only for early tech levels but for the whole game. At least so it was in 0.23 version.

we don't need this tree to be that.

That's your opinion, and my opinion is that a bit of realism never hurts.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Dr. Jet

[cvod]

Sorry, but that's not the intent of this tree. It presents manned, unmanned, and spaceplanes as viable options. It encourages unmanned by making manned more costly than unmanned (especially if life support is installed). Or at least that's the goal. I decided to make it like this since I thought it was a good compromise between the different styles of gameplay.

It also wouldn't be hard for someone that wanted a forced unmanned start to trade the command pod with a probe core.

Edited November 5, 2014 by cvod

[scerion]

Which is realistic. Kerbals want to go to space, but at the beginning they don't know what will meet them there - behind the sky and how they should prepare for the flight. They should launch at least couple of unmanned missions to find it out and be able to design something capable of delivering living kerbals.

Which is full of annoying "features" in addition to the tree - like making most pods unsuitable for space travel not only for early tech levels but for the whole game. At least so it was in 0.23 version.

That's your opinion, and my opinion is that a bit of realism never hurts.

This tech tree isn't a realism overhaul though. If anything the way Kerbal lore goes to my understanding, manned flight before unmanned. Thank you for the history lesson, I know it as well. However once again, this isn't about realism.

Well, use the tree and not the other options. Or maybe check it out since the updates. Perhaps it's changed more to your liking.

Never hurts, unless that's not the way it's intended to work. Otherwise, the tree would go by a different name.

Now I'm all for unmanned missions, I'm a RemoteTech user and life support user myself. It's been interesting working through the tree and seeing where things unlock at what point. But the balance is pretty great so far. I definitely like not restricted to unmanned missions at the beginning.

[scerion]

cvod: TechManager updated today, but it requires some editing to the tree.cfg to put an additional wrapper around the whole file as well as give it some id/label for selection. Without the edit, the tree doesn't show up as an option for use.

*edit* actually looks like a bit more...didn't load when I edited the file. Still investigating.

Edited November 5, 2014 by scerion

[cvod]

cvod: TechManager updated today, but it requires some editing to the tree.cfg to put an additional wrapper around the whole file as well as give it some id/label for selection. Without the edit, the tree doesn't show up as an option for use.

*edit* actually looks like a bit more...didn't load when I edited the file. Still investigating.

Just don't use the latest version. I included a version that works in the download.

[JeffreyCor]

cvod: TechManager updated today, but it requires some editing to the tree.cfg to put an additional wrapper around the whole file as well as give it some id/label for selection. Without the edit, the tree doesn't show up as an option for use.

*edit* actually looks like a bit more...didn't load when I edited the file. Still investigating.

I hope you find what it is. Working with the new version of TM will get another try with this The old version messes up current saves tech trees which the new versions "none" option rectifies.

[scerion]

I hope you find what it is. Working with the new version of TM will get another try with this The old version messes up current saves tech trees which the new versions "none" option rectifies.

Found the issue. for install for TechManager v1.2

1) Install new TechManager in GameData

2) Copy your tree.cfg to the TechManager folder in GameData.

3) Edit your tree.cfg in your favorite text editor.

4) At the very top, put

TECHNOLOGY_TREE_DEFINITION
{
id = Mott0
label = Mod Oriented Tech Tree

5) Delete (Not sure if this was needed, didn't want the potential id fields to conflict though)

VERSION
{
id = 2
}

6) At the very bottom of the file, put

}

7) Save, and load your game, in the TechManager options it should now show up as Mod Oriented Tech Tree.

[scerion]

So according to Anonish:

This is expected behavior and documented in the installation.txt file. Any TECHNOLOGY_TREE_DEFINITION trees should be under GameData. Any old format 'tree.cfg' files (must have that name exactly) should be in the save game folder, and are not visible until you Left-Alt-F7 while in the R&D center.

So supposedly it did work if left alone. I must not have gone through the expected route of loading the old tree though.

However the above changes mentioned work for the new format needed to be under the GameData directory vs inside your save directory.

[DartBoris]

Does this tree keep original Interstellar's node names to make part upgrades work? (afaik it works like that)

[cvod]

It did at one point. I've probably deleted one or two interstellar nodes when switching to Interstellar Lite. If that's the case, I'll try to add them back in the next update.

[DartBoris]

That would be awesome , a well-made tree this is.

[JeffreyCor]

Scerion, your changes worked perfectly to get this tech tree to show up and be loadable in the TechManager list. Great work and thanks

[ZeroGravitas]

Hiya, loving the idea behind this tech tree, different paths and lots of mod support, but I'm struggling to get it working.

I can get the techtree up in the RandD building and unlock nodes, but when I do, only some of the parts are available for construction. For example, here you can see a decoupler and a heat shield from DeadlyRe-entry:

But in the VAB there is nothing in the structures tab:

What makes it weirder is that some other parts from the same node have unlocked and are available fine:

If anyone can help I would be so grateful, I can't wait to try this tree out properly!

[Riverey]

We're looking forward for updates!

Also there are few more awesome mods - FusTek, RetroFuture Planes< for example. And few cool small ones - DeepFreeze, etc...

=)

[FreeThinker]

I'm glad someone took up the gauntlet.

For My own game, which uses both Near Future Propulsion and Interstellar, I modded the Near future engines to be inline with the stock ion engines (because near future nerfs the ion engines). This allows the Near Future engines to be an interesting alternative to Interstellar engines. Do you have any similar plans or integrations?

Edited November 11, 2014 by FreeThinker

[cvod]

I'm glad someone took up the gauntlet.

For My own game, which uses both Near Future Propulsion and Interstellar, I modded the Near future engines to be inline with the stock ion engines (because near future nerfs the ion engines). This allows the Near Future engines to be an interesting alternative to Interstellar engines. Do you have any similar plans or integrations?

I have the stock ion node branch off into interstellar plasma and near future plasma/ion paths. And then the rest of the interstellar engines follow from the nuclear tech. For the most part, the mods are parallel to each other. Did you have something different you'd like to see?

[cvod]

Hiya, loving the idea behind this tech tree, different paths and lots of mod support, but I'm struggling to get it working.

I can get the techtree up in the RandD building and unlock nodes, but when I do, only some of the parts are available for construction. For example, here you can see a decoupler and a heat shield from DeadlyRe-entry:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4LWS6nNBQprZ0VrZlNsdEdBMjA/view?usp=sharing

But in the VAB there is nothing in the structures tab:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4LWS6nNBQprUFB4dFE0ZTNZTzQ/view?usp=sharing

What makes it weirder is that some other parts from the same node have unlocked and are available fine:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4LWS6nNBQprTmpqNmNFRm9IbDA/view?usp=sharing

If anyone can help I would be so grateful, I can't wait to try this tree out properly!

Is it random, or are the missing parts all from the same mod(s)?