Kethane Station Discussion

[panzer1b]

1.1 (NaN bug aside) seems to have majorly hampered armor protection across the board.  While thats fine, i think you might consider placing some limits for weapons.

Right now wheels make such insane weaponry since they are bugged (and as always have way too high impact tolerance), so id recommend no wheels for any weapon.  That and you might look into limiting their mass, atm a 6t missile will tear anything apart pretty much (provided direct hit is achieved in like center of mass).

Also, now that 1.1 has some major performance boosts, why not consider increasing your max part count to ~400-500 since (at least for me and im on a 3yr old lappy) multiple 500 part ships loaded in the same area seem to be fine, and i have already assembled entire fleets of like 6+ 200 part ships with no issues whatsoever performance wise (although it gets choppy with ~2000 parts total loaded...).

This works fine for my rig, with minimal lag, although im so NOT docking that carrier to the rest of those ships...  The carrier with fighters is ~500 parts, the pile of docked capital ships is around 600-700 total, and while it does experience some slowdown, it is totally playable.  Had this been 1.0.5 the lag would be so bad id be unable to do anything.  Ohh, and undocking all the vessels increases performance as the multicore thing works best then.

[ScriptKitt3h]

1 hour ago, panzer1b said:

1.1 (NaN bug aside) seems to have majorly hampered armor protection across the board.  While thats fine, i think you might consider placing some limits for weapons.

Right now wheels make such insane weaponry since they are bugged (and as always have way too high impact tolerance), so id recommend no wheels for any weapon.  That and you might look into limiting their mass, atm a 6t missile will tear anything apart pretty much (provided direct hit is achieved in like center of mass).

Also, now that 1.1 has some major performance boosts, why not consider increasing your max part count to ~400-500 since (at least for me and im on a 3yr old lappy) multiple 500 part ships loaded in the same area seem to be fine, and i have already assembled entire fleets of like 6+ 200 part ships with no issues whatsoever performance wise (although it gets choppy with ~2000 parts total loaded...).

This works fine for my rig, with minimal lag, although im so NOT docking that carrier to the rest of those ships...  The carrier with fighters is ~500 parts, the pile of docked capital ships is around 600-700 total, and while it does experience some slowdown, it is totally playable.  Had this been 1.0.5 the lag would be so bad id be unable to do anything.  Ohh, and undocking all the vessels increases performance as the multicore thing works best then.

While I am glad that 1.1's got some noticeable performance increases- keep in mind that it's JUST a pre-release right now. Things still may or may not change before final release.

Also, while I can understand wanting to limit tires somewhat, limiting the mass of each missile is a bit too far- it heavily reduces what people may or may not be able to enter, and it just makes more work for HatBat and/or myself (come the new thread after 1.1+KS' next episode) when going through submitted craft.

[NotAnAimbot]

F-2C Sea Predator Obr.16, naval based version of the F-2 Predator, with enhanced avionics systems. Although carrier-based, the F-2C can also be deployed by land, retaining an useful anti-ship and anti-ground capability with its 4xMarverick missiles, while remaining at the cutting edge of current ASFs with heavy anti-air weaponry. It is much heavier than its predecessor, but makes it up with better engines.

1)Activate autopilot, toggle guard mode, activate engines, enable ECM

[NotAnAimbot]

Also, would any of you be interested in a flying M1 turret?

[Spartwo]

1.1? Back to work I guess...

[Heckspress]

48 minutes ago, Spartwo said:

1.1? Back to work I guess...

i want.

[panzer1b]

5 hours ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

While I am glad that 1.1's got some noticeable performance increases- keep in mind that it's JUST a pre-release right now. Things still may or may not change before final release.

Also, while I can understand wanting to limit tires somewhat, limiting the mass of each missile is a bit too far- it heavily reduces what people may or may not be able to enter, and it just makes more work for HatBat and/or myself (come the new thread after 1.1+KS' next episode) when going through submitted craft.

Prerelease or not, just look at the sort of stuff ive been able to pull off, all of it with useable framerates and performance.

3 ships with 2 fighters, each, ~1200 parts total, runs at real time with negligible lag.

All of that in 1 spot, ~1500 parts total spread between 10+ warships/carrier/fighters, a bit of slowdown but perfectly playable.

4 starfighters with ~300 parts total arrive within that 1500 part armada and still playable as it should be.  its getting laggier, but it is by no means bad.

In pre 1.1, stuff like this would have been impossible, but now we can have massive scale battles like the devs intended

[ScriptKitt3h]

13 minutes ago, panzer1b said:

Prerelease or not, just look at the sort of stuff ive been able to pull off, all of it with useable framerates and performance.

3 ships with 2 fighters, each, ~1200 parts total, runs at real time with negligible lag.

All of that in 1 spot, ~1500 parts total spread between 10+ warships/carrier/fighters, a bit of slowdown but perfectly playable.

4 starfighters with ~300 parts total arrive within that 1500 part armada and still playable as it should be.  its getting laggier, but it is by no means bad.

In pre 1.1, stuff like this would have been impossible, but now we can have massive scale battles like the devs intended

Yup, can't wait for the full release myself. I was just saying that major bugs (or bugs with major symptoms, like NaNing, etc.) will likely be fixed either prior to full release or shortly afterwards.

[NotAnAimbot]

Thoughts? The VTOL is pretty heavy for striking, but I feared it would be overly vulnerable to AA. So kind of awesome but impractical. Would there be a need for a VTOl like this one?

Edited April 10, 2016 by NotAnAimbot

[NotAnAimbot]

A nooby question, but how do you make armor? I've tried with normal plates and wings, but they get destroyed instantly. Radiators work well, but anything not covered is destroyed.

[Spearka]

Just now, NotAnAimbot said:

A nooby question, but how do you make armor? I've tried with normal plates and wings, but they get destroyed instantly. Radiators work well, but anything not covered is destroyed.

There's much more than slapping on plates; you need to make a structural "skeleton" of your ship with girders and put the plates on there instead of mounting it on fuel tanks. Unfortunately this does mean compromising on Delta-V but your ship won't be destroyed in a single hit.

It's also important to try and "decentralise" the structure i.e. build armour stemming from different points of the skeleton instead of attaching one plate on another

[ScriptKitt3h]

20 minutes ago, Spearka said:

There's much more than slapping on plates; you need to make a structural "skeleton" of your ship with girders and put the plates on there instead of mounting it on fuel tanks. Unfortunately this does mean compromising on Delta-V but your ship won't be destroyed in a single hit.

It's also important to try and "decentralise" the structure i.e. build armour stemming from different points of the skeleton instead of attaching one plate on another

Yup- there's many ways to "properly" build armored vessels, but they all stem from the concept of building the ship from structural parts, and THEN adding internal components like fuel, engines, weapons, etc.

Having some degree of redundancy is important, too, that's why most of my newer designs for stock warships include launch bays for missiles reminiscent of VLS cells-
having all your missiles in one pay facing out the front of the ship might make aiming easier, but it also makes it easier for someone to shoot a round down your ship's "gullet" per se, and then strip you of all your munitions. Just as well, working with angled sections of your prospective hull can improve deflection chances, much like tank armor.

Edited April 10, 2016 by ScriptKitt3h

[NotAnAimbot]

@Spearka and @ScriptKitt3h, what armor thickness would you suggest then? And does my theory on radiators as armor work? BD seems to overheat parts to destroy them, so I thought radiators would keep them from heating and block projectiles.

 

[Spearka]

1 minute ago, NotAnAimbot said:

@Spearka and @ScriptKitt3h, what armor thickness would you suggest then? And does my theory on radiators as armor work? BD seems to overheat parts to destroy them, so I thought radiators would keep them from heating and block projectiles.

 

only a single plate will suffice for space vessels. The radiator theory should theoretically work but one could just shoot the plate its attached to

[NotAnAimbot]

1 minute ago, Spearka said:

only a single plate will suffice for space vessels

Do you have any experience for ground vehicles then? I'm trying to build up enough armor for my flying M1.

[ScriptKitt3h]

1 hour ago, NotAnAimbot said:

@Spearka and @ScriptKitt3h, what armor thickness would you suggest then? And does my theory on radiators as armor work? BD seems to overheat parts to destroy them, so I thought radiators would keep them from heating and block projectiles.

 

For BD (ground), I'd assume a single-plate thick armor layer, but for the series, we're talking STOCK space warships, so for those it really depends on your design and what you're facing in combat.

Some designers (myself included) have ships designed specifically to counter well-armored warships (at least in terms of weapons used). Ideally, if you wanted a super-tough warship, you have your structural skeleton, an inner hull with the internals, some hollow space acting as a buffer zone (with struts/etc. holding stuff together), and then the outer hull, which you could either leave as bare steel or cover with an outer skin of wing plate armor, which not only provides some extra reactive armor-style protection against smaller projectile weapons built from stock parts, but also allows for some really sleek, aesthetically pleasing designs.

[Spearka]

HatBat, small question: As most of us are aware BDArmoury now has a whole bunch of new features including targeting modules and GPS-guided missiles and bombs.

Would it be permitted that solely for story-driven or just for Kethane Station episodes, could Targeting balls be equipped onto Space vehicles for targeting on Cruise missiles and bombs? (Point+lock+send GPS)

[NotAnAimbot]

2 hours ago, Spearka said:

targeting on Cruise missiles

I'm for the idea, but sending cruise missiles on orbit course to a Kerbin target is pretty hard. You either have to burn retrograde and lose all your energy so the missile doesn't have to, or else your missile flies off. Have you found a better way?

[Spearka]

6 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

I'm for the idea, but sending cruise missiles on orbit course to a Kerbin target is pretty hard. You either have to burn retrograde and lose all your energy so the missile doesn't have to, or else your missile flies off. Have you found a better way?

I mean BDArmoury cruise missiles from the surface, same with bombs (well, more from the air)

Edited April 10, 2016 by Spearka

[NotAnAimbot]

4 minutes ago, Spearka said:

I mean BDArmoury cruise missiles from the surface, same with bombs (well, more from the air)

No Orbital Strike Platforms?

But yeah, spy satellites would add a nice depth to the game, especially for the incoming land battle.

[ScriptKitt3h]

2 hours ago, NotAnAimbot said:

No Orbital Strike Platforms?

But yeah, spy satellites would add a nice depth to the game, especially for the incoming land battle.

 

2 hours ago, Spearka said:

I mean BDArmoury cruise missiles from the surface, same with bombs (well, more from the air)

BD's not allowed for anything other than surface vessels- it makes space combat all that more interesting and there indeed WAS a spy sat in the series- the Tobius, and it got shot down in one of the last episodes.

[NotAnAimbot]

What do you guys think of this?

[JTpopcorn]

1 hour ago, NotAnAimbot said:

What do you guys think of this?

nice looking, but I'm not sure I'd want it unless the enemy had no aa. Also, the asthetics of those front armor plates

I'm not sure if their is a better way, but it's a bit um, well brutish. Devestating, but not pretty.

[NotAnAimbot]

1 hour ago, JTpopcorn said:

 I'm not sure I'd want it unless the enemy had no aa.

I'll add some SEAD then I guess. Countermeasure should also help against AA. It's an equivalent to heavy attack helicopters like the AH-64 and Ka-50s, so it should have about the same advantages and drawbacks.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by NotAnAimbot

[Red- the Engineer]

Introducing the Korsair Series-- currently only three models have been produced--Types 0-2--and they range from a blank template to a ground support variant. The Korsair Type 0 (T-0) is a blank slate of a plane, only equipped with the hardpoints necessary for mounting weapons, a weapon manager, an AI pilot, chaff and flare dispensers, airbrakes, and an integrated radar. These features are included on all models. The Korsair Type 1 (T-1) is the standard air superiority/night fighter that was initially designed as the Korsair. Features include all of the standard series features mounted onto the T-0's airframe, with the addition of a single twenty-millimeter nose-mounted vulcan (ammunition included,) six AMRAAM air-to-air missiles, two wingtip-mounted Sidewinders, and an ECM pod mounted below the fuselage for additional stealth capacity. The Korsair Type 2 (T-2) is a ground support variant. Replacing the vulcan is a GAU thirty-millimeter cannon, mounted below the integrated radome with an extended ammunition supply for close-air support. Replacing the AMRAAMS are four Maverick air-to-ground missiles, as well as two JDAM GPS-guided explosives. Replacing the ECM pod is a targeting pod, allowing for easy target painting.

 

I find these aircraft to be insanely hard to take down by clipping the wings, as I staged a dogfight between two T-1s (codenamed "Romeo" and "Juliet,") during which Juliet clipped one wing off of Romeo completely. Romeo, despite the normally critical damage sustained, stayed afloat. A few minutes later, the dogfight having continued, he lost his other wing to her. The dogfight continued for another several minutes, a wingless Romeo being ended by a swift spray of 20 millimeter rounds to the cockpit. I suppose I should've named him Icarus, in hindsight.

Korsair Series:

T-0, T-1, T-2

Edited April 14, 2016 by Red- the Engineer
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