[1.4.1] Kerbal Construction Time 1.4.0.69 (2018-03-24) - Unrapid Planned Assembly

[justmeman117]

thanks for the help man.

And yes, i realize it's quicker once you have the parts in your inventory, I just thought it was funny that a cessna would take 2 days to refuel XD

[Gryphon]

thanks for the help man.

And yes, i realize it's quicker once you have the parts in your inventory, I just thought it was funny that a cessna would take 2 days to refuel XD

When they are rebuilding a vessel after you recover it, they aren't just refueling it. They are disassembling systems, checking everything, and replacing components (like they did when processing a Space Shuttle after landing).

At least, that's how I see it.

[raxo2222]

Apparently there is bug: Other building rates are completely useless. There is interstellar ship, that will take years to build.

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[Svm420]

That's probably about right for an 11 million fund ship. Each build rate is for 1 vessel no matter what not a bug.

[raxo2222]

That's probably about right for an 11 million fund ship. Each build rate is for 1 vessel no matter what not a bug.

Ohhh so it means I can build multiple vessels at once!

I thought all of BP go to single vessel lol.

So basically I misunderstood feature.

[Gryphon]

Ohhh so it means I can build multiple vessels at once!

I thought all of BP go to single vessel lol.

So basically I misunderstood feature.

But wait, there's more! You could build parts of your ship - especially the expensive ones - in separate queues. Once those components assemblies are completed, you scrap or recover them, and the parts will be in your inventory, available for use. Once you have all the components you wanted to build separately, THEN start the assembly of the complete ship. This allows you to use all those other rates effectively.

Watch the estimated build time when you are designing the craft. You will see that some parts may take a long time to build. Typically, those are the parts I target for special construction. (When a build slot is not busy, I use it to build up my inventory of parts that I expect to need regularly.)

Oh, and each time you construct a new part, it will take less time (as your Kerbals get more experienced with it). This improvement tapers off upon repeated construction.

[hab136]

This mod is awesome, and the new Presets is very cool.

Any chance I could have a toggle for "research tech sequentially"? Right now if I have 900 science and click on three 300-point tech nodes, they all arrive at the same time, say 18 days later. I'd rather it research one node, then the next, then the next (taking 3x18 = 54 days total).

Likewise for building upgrades. It looks like they may be connected - if tech research pauses while a building is being upgraded, that's fine.

[Nori]

Been playing New Horizon planet pack and noticed a weird issue. Sim costs for orbit are crazy. Simming a command pod costs about 100 funds, but if you sim it to orbit for a mere 15m it costs 200k. This is for around Kerbin.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that NH moved Kerbin to be around Sonnah.

[magico13]

@hab Tech and KSC upgrades internally are quite different, but when I get home I'll show you how to adjust the tech formula so that it's sequential and not all at once. Can't do the same for KSC upgrades yet, because the rate is based on other build rates.

@Nori Orbit simulations are very based on the parent body, you'll probably need to come up with a new formula to make New Horizons reasonable. I can help you out with that if you need it. You might just make them independent of the parent body and just use the planet's stats rather than the parent stats.

Edit: @hab136 Replace the NodeFormula with this and it'll research one node at a time. You'll also be given the ability to reorganize the researching tech (aka, arrow buttons will appear) once you do this.

To change this, just open up the Settings/Preset window, click the Show/Hide Formulas button, then replace the contents of the first formula listed with the following:

2^([N]+1) / 86400 * sign(-[I])

What it does now is multiply the rate by the sign of -1 times the tech's index in the list. Since the sign(0) is defined as 1 (in my implementation) this will multiply by 1 for rate 0, but will multiply by -1 for all the others which disables them (negative results typically disable features in the Presets system). So you'll only have a single rate. If you decide you want multiple rates based on the first one, let me know and I can come up with something else

@Nori, you might try using this formula for the SimCostFormula:

max([C]/50000 * min([M]/[KM], 80) * ([A]/10 + 1) * ([L]^0.5) * 100, 500)

Changes are changing from [PM] to [M] and removing the (/10 + 1) parameter. The first change switches from using the parent mass to using the body's mass, and the second one removes the "cost more if it's a moon" aspect. You are certainly free to change that formula even more, but you may want to change some corresponding things in the KerbinSimCostFormula.

Edited August 10, 2015 by magico13

[CanadianDutchman]

is this supposed to take this long? seems a bit much to me.. also an empty SPH says it needs 53 days of construction even though there isn't even a ship in it. that is why I'm asking. I have SPH upgraded with the first few points to get 0.05BP/s

that menu in the SPH also confuses me as I can type any number into it and it decreases the time.. until I actually click to build it.. then it is the full time again.. http://imgur.com/a/A3jeu

[Rocinante89]

Magico13,

I'm getting a KCT error, and after having a look through the code it seems to be an issue with KCT failing to load(Probably being stopped by some other mod maybe?).

Here's my output log:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwtmq73q0JCVeHlXMThMRk1ITXc

The error occurs when the space centre view loads and it says:

"Error Loading KCT Data

ERROR! An error occurred while loading KCT data. Things will be seriously broken! Please report this error to the KCT forum thread and attach the log file. The game will be UNPLAYABLE in this state!"

I'm runing around 60 mods, and i'm also using the x64 bit hack(i'm lucky enough that it's pretty stable for me), so if you don't want to help on those grounds it's no hassle.

[magico13]

The GUI in the editor lets you enter any speed so you can estimate the build time at any rate, especially useful if you have multiple rates or need to build something quickly and need to figure out how fast you'll need your rates to be. If you click the * button it will cycle through available rates.

RP-0's build times are balanced by the RP-0 devs, not me, so I don't really know what a "standard" build time is. I do know that it'll be several years before you do any sort of manned flight, since the build times are balanced around being somewhat realistic (while default KCT's are not)

E:

RP-0 has a minimum BP for any ship, so even an empty editor will have a build time.

Edited August 11, 2015 by magico13

[CanadianDutchman]

ok.. I was confused about that. thanks for your answer

[Nori]

@Nori, you might try using this formula for the SimCostFormula:

max([C]/50000 * min([M]/[KM], 80) * ([A]/10 + 1) * ([L]^0.5) * 100, 500)

Changes are changing from [PM] to [M] and removing the (/10 + 1) parameter. The first change switches from using the parent mass to using the body's mass, and the second one removes the "cost more if it's a moon" aspect. You are certainly free to change that formula even more, but you may want to change some corresponding things in the KerbinSimCostFormula.

Ooh thanks! I was puzzling through the formula and this makes more sense now. Did a quick test this morning and Kerbin had a much better cost of 20k. The other Sonnah body systems had slightly varying costs. Not sure how it will handle other planets though since I haven't made it to one yet.

[magico13]

ok.. I was confused about that. thanks for your answer

If you've got any more technical questions (how do I do X? What does X do?) let me know and I'll gladly answer them. For questions regarding balance of the RP-0 Preset, you'll probably want to ask your questions in the RP-0 thread as they'd know better than I do. The way KCT works with RP-0 is quite a bit different than how it works by default

[Gryphon]

... since the build times are balanced around being somewhat realistic (while default KCT's are not)...

I feel like the default construction times make a good balance with contract times etc. Besides, this is a simulation of Kerbals building Kerbal rockets using Kerbal technology and, worse, Kerbal engineering, so maybe the times are realistic - for Kerbals!

[Schmonzo]

Can't think why anyone would play without this.

So immersion

Very Space

Much Wow

Thanks for making this!

[MrCynical]

The error occurs when the space centre view loads and it says:

"Error Loading KCT Data

ERROR! An error occurred while loading KCT data. Things will be seriously broken! Please report this error to the KCT forum thread and attach the log file. The game will be UNPLAYABLE in this state!"

I'm runing around 60 mods, and i'm also using the x64 bit hack(i'm lucky enough that it's pretty stable for me), so if you don't want to help on those grounds it's no hassle.

I'm also running with the 64 bit hack and getting the same message on starting a new game with KCT. I think it might be related to the bug in the 64 bit version where the KSC buildings incorrectly look like they are fully upgraded at the start. After getting the "unplayable" message I tried going into the tracking station and back out which caused the buildings to start displaying correctly as level one, and I then got a correctly functioning message about KCT setup. I've made it as far as running Mun missions without the game blowing up or anything, so despite the initial warning KCT seems to be coping with the 64 bit version so far.

Of course it may go horribly wrong later, but if you want to risk it you could try toggling in and out of the space centre buildings at the start of the game to see if the display sorts itself out and KCT will load for you.

[magico13]

I'm pretty sure it's just a false positive in the error checking code, that for some reason only happens with 64 bit Windows KSP. The reports I've seen all say the same sort of thing that ignoring the message is alright. If/when KSP gets an official 64 bit windows version, I'll make sure it doesn't pop up falsely then, but until then it's probably ok to ignore in that one instance. If it comes up any other time, then you should start looking for bugs. I don't mind if people report bugs in the 64 bit version, as long as they tell me they're using that and don't expect me to give as much support (cause I'm probably not going to install the hack on my system).

[Rokanov]

Edit: @hab136 Replace the NodeFormula with this and it'll research one node at a time. You'll also be given the ability to reorganize the researching tech (aka, arrow buttons will appear) once you do this.

To change this, just open up the Settings/Preset window, click the Show/Hide Formulas button, then replace the contents of the first formula listed with the following:

2^([N]+1) / 86400 * sign(-[I])

What it does now is multiply the rate by the sign of -1 times the tech's index in the list. Since the sign(0) is defined as 1 (in my implementation) this will multiply by 1 for rate 0, but will multiply by -1 for all the others which disables them (negative results typically disable features in the Presets system). So you'll only have a single rate. If you decide you want multiple rates based on the first one, let me know and I can come up with something else

I love that! Definitely going to start using it. I have a couple of questions though.

First, I want to make it so each R&D centre upgrade adds another node research slot, is adding this what I'm after?

sign([R]-[I])

Second, after testing, it looks like a scene change is required for this to work. If I begin researching two or more nodes then switch to KSC, all nodes begin researching at once (and will unlock if I warp to complete at this point). I have to switch scenes (e.g. enter the VAB) before it functions properly. Does this count as a bug?

Unrelated to this, I encountered a bug earlier after recovering a vessel with an exploded part, but forgot to grab the LOG file . I remember reading somewhere that this is a known bug, so is it worth me trying to repeat it for you and pasting a log? (FYI It was a 'Launch Stick' from Sounding Rockets by RoverDude that exploded).

Thanks for the incredible mod! KSP feels so meaty now I can't reach the moon 2 days into a new game.

[magico13]

I love that! Definitely going to start using it. I have a couple of questions though.

First, I want to make it so each R&D centre upgrade adds another node research slot, is adding this what I'm after?

sign([R]-[I])

Sorry, I didn't see this post until now. That should work as you expect, where there's one rate per R&D center upgrade (they'll all be at the same speed though). With [R] equal to 0 you'll have one rate, [R] == 1 you'll have two, and [R]==2 you'll have 3. If you want to reduce the rate for the secondary ones I can try to come up with something. I'm having trouble thinking of something off the top of my head at the moment

Second, after testing, it looks like a scene change is required for this to work. If I begin researching two or more nodes then switch to KSC, all nodes begin researching at once (and will unlock if I warp to complete at this point). I have to switch scenes (e.g. enter the VAB) before it functions properly. Does this count as a bug?

Unrelated to this, I encountered a bug earlier after recovering a vessel with an exploded part, but forgot to grab the LOG file . I remember reading somewhere that this is a known bug, so is it worth me trying to repeat it for you and pasting a log? (FYI It was a 'Launch Stick' from Sounding Rockets by RoverDude that exploded).

It's not technically a bug, since most rates are calculated only once per scene (if it happened during every Update it would create a lot of lag) and you don't typically change things frequently. Just assume that if you make changes to any rates, you'll need a scene change before they take effect. I should add that to the documentation at some point. I should probably also just recalculate all the rates when you save the settings

Were you recovering the vessel to storage (as opposed to using the stock recover button)? That code is a bit buggy, but KCT will make a backup of the save file before recovering if anything goes wrong. If you've got a GitHub account you're encouraged to provide as much info in this issue. It's pretty well known that that code is buggy and won't be easy to fix, but if I get enough reports with enough info I might be able to take some time to see what I can fix, but otherwise I'm not too concerned with fixing it at the moment (I don't particularly care for that feature and feel like I was a bit bullied into it since I personally thought the inventory system was sufficient, so I do have some personal preferences about it. With that said, I do want it to work properly and am not ok with it breaking things or permanently corrupting saves). If you encounter it again, post the log, but there's no need to try to reproduce it since I probably won't be able to fix it anytime soon anyway, and you'll probably run into it again through normal gameplay.

[Rokanov]

If you want to reduce the rate for the secondary ones I can try to come up with something. I'm having trouble thinking of something off the top of my head at the moment

Up to you but I'm perfectly happy with how I have working it now! I love how customisable it is, it's incredible! (I nicked a bunch from RP-0, so now R&D building upgrades buff research speed too)

It's not technically a bug, since most rates are calculated only once per scene (if it happened during every Update it would create a lot of lag) and you don't typically change things frequently. Just assume that if you make changes to any rates, you'll need a scene change before they take effect.

Cool, that's pretty much what I was guessing! It seemed a bit odd in testing, but in normal game it's barely noticable

Were you recovering the vessel to storage

That's exactly what I was doing Most of the time I recover to storage then scrap it, because I like having a recovery timer. I'll occasionally reuse a plane, but only if I know that nothing broke (that tends to be the main culprit). I've ran into the game breaking bug upon entering the VAB/SPH a few times, but it's never broken a save yet (just requires a game restart). For something you weren't too bothered about, it's really impressive! Even if a tad unnecessary Is there a way to track if there's anything broken (like rover wheels) or asymmetrically exploded (like a wing) that you could use to flag a warning or prevent recovery? That sounds like a simpler workaround that actually fixing it (I'm talking out of my rear end here, I can't code! )

[magico13]

Is there a way to track if there's anything broken (like rover wheels) or asymmetrically exploded (like a wing) that you could use to flag a warning or prevent recovery? That sounds like a simpler workaround that actually fixing it (I'm talking out of my rear end here, I can't code! )

I might be able to, but I need to compile a list of what exactly breaks it and how badly. Right now there's some code to catch it if it totally breaks when doing the conversion from Vessel to ShipConstruct, but I think it doesn't totally break until you actually try to load the ship, which I don't think I can detect without actually trying to load it. Might be able to convert it, then load it and test it really quick, then unload it, then do the scene change if it worked properly. For now, providing a backup save is likely "good enough".

[Rokanov]

Very minor quality of life thing: Is there a way to move the window that pops up after clicking launch in VAB/SPH closer to the launch button? (The window with build/simulate vessel)

[magico13]

Very minor quality of life thing: Is there a way to move the window that pops up after clicking launch in VAB/SPH closer to the launch button? (The window with build/simulate vessel)

Not currently. Though now I want to play around with having it be more like a drop-down menu...

Edit: So I definitely made it appear at the mouse cursor (optionally, but by default) in the latest development build

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69310-Kerbal-Construction-Time-StageRecovery-Dev-Thread

Edited August 18, 2015 by magico13