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[1.1.2] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) 0.5.8

KospY

By KospY
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Telvee32 said: 

[WRN 19:25:16.487] [KAS] OnJointBreak(Core) A joint broken on Winch RW-50 !, force: 1022.791
[LOG 19:25:16.488] [F: 25120]: [00:02:11]: Structural failure on linkage between Winch RW-50 and S2 Wide Body Cargo Bay 6m.
[LOG 19:25:16.499] [KAS] OnSave(Core) Docked joint detected, saving info...
[LOG 19:25:16.500] [KAS] OnSave(Winch) Winch head deployed, saving info...
[LOG 19:25:16.500] [KAS] OnSave(Core) Docked joint detected, saving info...

This is what I found in KSP.log. Trying to winch up at a much lower speed doesn't help, I've tried various different winch speeds all the way down to 0.05, the force of the failure is always around the 1000 mark.

It's likely a result of this issue. Try reducing values "motorMaxSpeed" and "motorAcceleration" on the winch part. It's hard to give exact recipe how they need to be changed for better UI experience. Just keep in mind that the greaster FPS you have in the game the lesser acceleration should be set (since it adds on every frame update).

In general, old winch implementation that was good in 1.0.5 is not good for 1.1 anymore. Improved physics results in more real forces on cable retract start. Simple acceleration parameter doesn't work well in all situations.

15 hours ago, brusura said:

can I tow another craft ( small craft ) with a kerbal? I have attached a winch to the craft and with the kerbal grabbed the cable but this keep extending , I tryed the lock function but I think it is not what I need 

Once you've grabbed the cable switch back to the pod, press "P" to bring winch GUI, and click "Release" button to cancel cable releasing mode. Then switch to the kerbal and try towing. Though, unless towed vessel is on wheel you'll unlikely succeed. If you need towing heavy vessels consider a different approach: attach a pylon to the ground, add to it a battery, command module and winch.

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brusura

brusura

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Once you've grabbed the cable switch back to the pod, press "P" to bring winch GUI, and click "Release" button to cancel cable releasing mode. Then switch to the kerbal and try towing. Though, unless towed vessel is on wheel you'll unlikely succeed. If you need towing heavy vessels consider a different approach: attach a pylon to the ground, add to it a battery, command module and winch.

Thanks will try switching back to pod

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
On 4.6.2016 at 10:05 PM, Gryphon said:

Nereid's got a mod for that:

 

Had the issue again, this time with an mining base who had filled up wile away, base would explode Hollywood style.
First aid to save base is using hyperedit and dump all heavy resources like fuel and ore, this stabilized the base at least until I could get an kerbal to eva and uncouple the links. 
Switched to only using winches with an shortkey to decople 

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Had the issue again, this time with an mining base who had filled up wile away, base would explode Hollywood style.
First aid to save base is using hyperedit and dump all heavy resources like fuel and ore, this stabilized the base at least until I could get an kerbal to eva and uncouple the links. 
Switched to only using winches with an shortkey to decople 

If you have modules on landing legs lock the suspension. Otherwise, changes in mass due to fuel generation may produce a considerably strong breaking force on the connectors.

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, IgorZ said:

If you have modules on landing legs lock the suspension. Otherwise, changes in mass due to fuel generation may produce a considerably strong breaking force on the connectors.

Yes, everything on landing legs. This was the old advice, might be related to the buggy landing legs we have now. 
And yes its significant mass, Main fuel storage is four orange tanks and two large ore tanks. 

Issue is that you can not lock the suspension afterward as far as I know.

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Calvin_Maclure

Calvin_Maclure

Posted
Posted

Is there a known bug with KAS/KIS that causes stuff to explode upon vessel loading?? Cause I just had a chunck of my space station suddenly explode and vanish upon loading to it. I had a pair of those yellow strut connectors that I had used to build two struts while in EVA to hold the newest part of the station to an older part of it. I load the station, and blam! No more struts and nothing if left of that new wing, except for the docking port... 

CM

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Is there a known bug with KAS/KIS that causes stuff to explode upon vessel loading?? Cause I just had a chunck of my space station suddenly explode and vanish upon loading to it. I had a pair of those yellow strut connectors that I had used to build two struts while in EVA to hold the newest part of the station to an older part of it. I load the station, and blam! No more struts and nothing if left of that new wing, except for the docking port... 

CM

Exploding on load is a known issue of the game. Once physics is started it may calculate insane forces at the part's joints. Though, most of the stock joints have some flexibility which dampers the initial stress but in KIS/KAS all struts are hard. They either keep the position or get destroyed by the breaking force. IIRC, there is a mod that disables default KSP behavior, and enables physics on the vessel slowly. It may help sometimes but don't expect it will work with any station config.

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Calvin_Maclure

Calvin_Maclure

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

Exploding on load is a known issue of the game. Once physics is started it may calculate insane forces at the part's joints. Though, most of the stock joints have some flexibility which dampers the initial stress but in KIS/KAS all struts are hard. They either keep the position or get destroyed by the breaking force. IIRC, there is a mod that disables default KSP behavior, and enables physics on the vessel slowly. It may help sometimes but don't expect it will work with any station config.

As it turns out, it was a B9PartSwitch error. Maxtemp values were evaluated rather than tolerances, or something of the sort. A copy/paste error. This was occuring with v1.4.0. v1.4.1 corrected it. 

While Im at it, if Ive got a rather large wing on my station that oscillates, my plan was to add those EVA struts to fix that. Are there any potential risks with such a fix upon loading of the station? (Im also using the KSR mod). 

Thanks,

CM

Edited by Calvin_Maclure
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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

While Im at it, if Ive got a rather large wing on my station that oscillates, my plan was to add those EVA struts to fix that. Are there any potential risks with such a fix upon loading of the station? (Im also using the KSR mod). 

Do you mean an orbital station? If yes then struts may help and should not explode on load because on load all non gravity forces are considered zero (an gravity affects all parts in the same way). Though, if you do maneuvers (or docking to the station) the forces may spike to the max values and break the struts. It really depends on your station length and configuration.

Heads up on the new version v0.5.8 released just recently.

It fixes winch motor acceleration issue (#169) which should resolve most issues with spontaneously broken ports on the cable. At the same time, this change will affect any mod relaying on KAS setting "motorAcceleration". If you know such mods please notify the authors. If you modified this value in your local configs consider resetting it to the new default.

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SCESW

SCESW

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Exploding on load is a known issue of the game. Once physics is started it may calculate insane forces at the part's joints. Though, most of the stock joints have some flexibility which dampers the initial stress but in KIS/KAS all struts are hard. They either keep the position or get destroyed by the breaking force. IIRC, there is a mod that disables default KSP behavior, and enables physics on the vessel slowly. It may help sometimes but don't expect it will work with any station config.

     Is it possible to set any object set to "Base" (not Ship/Probe/etc) to ignore physics? 
     I just keep thinking that if I build a house on the ground, the rebar, concrete and pillars are going to make it pretty unlikely that anything short of a hurricane or earthquake is going to affect the building.  The idea that the physics engine suddenly affects those buildings on load seems like a silly issue to keep fighting.
     If there are cheat codes that allow you to ignore physics, could that be applied to a single building/structure/root_part when a name change occurs?
 

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SCESW said:

     Is it possible to set any object set to "Base" (not Ship/Probe/etc) to ignore physics? 
     I just keep thinking that if I build a house on the ground, the rebar, concrete and pillars are going to make it pretty unlikely that anything short of a hurricane or earthquake is going to affect the building.  The idea that the physics engine suddenly affects those buildings on load seems like a silly issue to keep fighting.
     If there are cheat codes that allow you to ignore physics, could that be applied to a single building/structure/root_part when a name change occurs?

Any part can technically be marked "physicsless". Though, it doesn't solve the problem. By disabling physics on one part you just move problem up in the the hierarchy: the force that makes the stress will just break another part. If you want to stop physics bothering you then the best bet is disabling it altogether. And it could be a good idea to consider, actually. There is no much sense to handle full physics on a landed base. Most of the time it just sits on the ground and produces fuel. Though, I'd not implement it in scope of KIS or KAS since it's unrelated to the purpose of these mods.

As for the cheats the setting "Unbreakable joints" will solve most of the problems.

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SCESW

SCESW

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Any part can technically be marked "physicsless". Though, it doesn't solve the problem. By disabling physics on one part you just move problem up in the the hierarchy: the force that makes the stress will just break another part. If you want to stop physics bothering you then the best bet is disabling it altogether. And it could be a good idea to consider, actually. There is no much sense to handle full physics on a landed base. Most of the time it just sits on the ground and produces fuel. Though, I'd not implement it in scope of KIS or KAS since it's unrelated to the purpose of these mods.

As for the cheats the setting "Unbreakable joints" will solve most of the problems.


    Since KAS is responsible for attaching two objects and separating two objects, it seems to me that it would be very much related to KAS.  I doubt a separate mod could compensate quickly for the changes that KAS makes... that being, keeping track of how many parts are in an object and which parts were separated from that object.  Of course, I am not a modder so I do not understand the voodoo that you do to make the magic happen, I am just thinking in terms of what 'should' be logical.  My apologies if logic does not apply here.

    Also, any cheat that affects all joints would likely just make the game 'not fun'.  That is why I asked if it were possible to apply that setting to individual objects... or all of the parts attached to said object.  I suspect that you'd need to keep a database of all parts on all objects so that you could reassign flags to each part as it was added to or separated from an object.  Again, my apologies if this is a monumental task.  I am very appreciative of the efforts modders such as yourself have invested into KSP and am only offering up ideas.

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gamerscircle

gamerscircle

Posted
Posted

I have a couple of questions, I did try to search through and find an answer, but nothing directly answered it and this is pretty basic.

1.) Ground Pylon is used for extending/connecting pipes?
2.) When using a Ground Base as an anchor, I assume I still have to use CCR2 connector port?

Thanks

 

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TheRagingIrishman

TheRagingIrishman

Posted
Posted

@KospY @IgorZ could you please move the settings.cfg file in /GameData/KAS to /GameData/KAS/PluginData. The reason for this is that if ModuleManager detects a change in any file not in a PluginData folder it will dump and rebuild its entire cache the next time the game loads which makes load times MUCH longer. I tried just manualy creating PluginData and moving setings.cfg into it and it allowed me to use the cache but broke parts of KAS so I assume there are some files that depend on settings.cfg that would need to be updated with the new folder path. Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

@KospY @IgorZ could you please move the settings.cfg file in /GameData/KAS to /GameData/KAS/PluginData. The reason for this is that if ModuleManager detects a change in any file not in a PluginData folder it will dump and rebuild its entire cache the next time the game loads which makes load times MUCH longer. I tried just manualy creating PluginData and moving setings.cfg into it and it allowed me to use the cache but broke parts of KAS so I assume there are some files that depend on settings.cfg that would need to be updated with the new folder path. Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.

The settings files can only change if explicitly modified by user. Yes, when it happen the whole DB in MM needs to be rebuild but it doesn't happen frequently. Usually, settings are changed just one after a new version setup, and most users don't do it anyways.

Moreover, in KIS there are values in the settings that are modified by MM patches (e.g stackable modules) so, moving it into PluginData is a bad idea.

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Telvee32

Telvee32

Posted
Posted (edited)

After the new update I'm still having the same issue with the winch ripping itself from its mounting no matter the speed of cable retraction, and it seems to happen with unbreakable joints enabled as well.

Edited by Telvee32
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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Telvee32 said:

After the new update I'm still having the same issue with the winch ripping itself from its mounting no matter the speed of cable retraction, and it seems to happen with unbreakable joints enabled as well.

I can only guess it's something about colliders. Could you please check logs prior the joint breakage? Btw, what FPS do you have when you do these tests?

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AdmiralTigerclaw

AdmiralTigerclaw

Posted
Posted

I'd like some pointers myself.

I'm trying to take a grappler part that's resized and give it a port so I can snap it on a winch (make a Kerbal Rescue device).

 

However, when I get it set up and attached, it all looks good until I start lowering the winch.  Then the part just drops to the ground.  The winch connector end dangles in the air with no apparent cable.  When I retract the winch, the connector returns to the lock position, and then it too just falls off.

 

I am unsure of what I need to do to make the part work.

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

However, when I get it set up and attached, it all looks good until I start lowering the winch.  Then the part just drops to the ground.  The winch connector end dangles in the air with no apparent cable.  When I retract the winch, the connector returns to the lock position, and then it too just falls off.

Wait, are you saying the winch head does drop off?! Could you please make a video of this?

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AdmiralTigerclaw

AdmiralTigerclaw

Posted
Posted

Ooo...  That got wonky.

 

Quote

[WRN 01:50:37.516] +++++++++++++++++++++ RUNTIME COMMENT +++++++++++++++++++++
[WRN 01:50:37.516] Time: 6:50:37 AM
[WRN 01:50:37.517] Comment: test start
[WRN 01:50:37.517] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[LOG 01:50:54.195] Deploy(Winch) - Return head to original pos
[LOG 01:50:54.195] Set head position to : (0.0, -0.1, 0.0) | Rotation : (-0.7, 0.0, 0.0, 0.7)
[LOG 01:50:54.196] SetHeadToPhysic(Winch) - Create physical object
[LOG 01:50:54.196] SetHeadToPhysic(Winch) - KASModulePhysicChild do not exist, adding it...
[LOG 01:50:54.197] Start(PhysicChild)
[LOG 01:50:54.198] Deploy(Winch) - Create spring joint
[LOG 01:50:54.198] Deploy(Winch) - Connected port detected, plug head in docked mode...
[WRN 01:50:54.198] DropHead(Winch) - Nothing to drop !
[LOG 01:50:54.199] PlugHead(Winch) - Plug using docked mode
[WRN 01:50:54.199] DockTo(Core) Parts already docked, nothing more to do
[LOG 01:50:54.200] RelayDatabase: Dirtying cache for vessel KRH-101 SARdine W2
[LOG 01:50:54.200] PlugHead(Winch) - Moving head...
[EXC 01:50:54.201] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.PlugHead (KAS.KASModulePort portModule, PlugState plugMode, Boolean fromSave, Boolean fireSound, Boolean alreadyDocked)
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.Deploy ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateMotor ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[LOG 01:50:54.204] Start(PhysicChild)
[WRN 01:50:54.204] Start(PhysicChild) Physic already started !
[EXC 01:50:54.314] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[EXC 01:50:54.409] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[EXC 01:50:54.510] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[EXC 01:50:54.617] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[EXC 01:50:54.712] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()
[EXC 01:50:54.801] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.UpdateOrgPos ()
 KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnUpdate ()
 Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
 Part.Update ()

 

And even after I stop messing with it, it just keeps going.

 

That physics starting and physics already started warning right at the top of the list seems suspect.

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IgorZ

IgorZ

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

And even after I stop messing with it, it just keeps going.

Could you please go the other way? Take a KAS harpoon or grapple, make a copy of it (with a new name), and do all the other stuff. My guts feel it's something about the modules interoperability. And just to make the experiment simpler, don't do the scale tweaks.

Also, it would help if you could reproduce it on a vessel made of stock parts only. This way I could load it myself and check where the problem comes from.

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