Component Space Shuttle V 5.0.1 (July 14, 2013)

[Frandsen]

Just another thought and this is me personally. Could you remove the American Flag. I am an American and proud of my country but when I play KSP id rather have decals say KSP or no decal at all. This is just a personal preference but if not at least you kept names off so I can add my own.

You could edit the TGA to fit personal preference

Back on tropic.

.21 I found a bug when trying to load the Shuttle.

"Craft Space Shuttle was not loaded because it had the following parts missing:

CSSForwardRCS"

[Cepheus]

"Craft Space Shuttle was not loaded because it had the following parts missing:

CSSForwardRCS"

You need to have the toggleable ASAS plugin. It should be included.

[viperwolf]

Cepheus do you know anything i could do to correct the engines in post 423

[Kerbal01]

The new SAS wil help with the roll manuver, never could get past that stage.

[Cepheus]

Cepheus do you know anything i could do to correct the engines in post 423

The problem you're having here is because of engine torque compensation. This plugin overrides the standard engine gimbal range, and thrusts in the proper direction is that the spacecraft doesn't torque itself into submission. Your craft isn't balanced in the same way that CSS is, so to keep it flying right, it's sending the engines to some crazy gimbal.

[viperwolf]

The problem you're having here is because of engine torque compensation. This plugin overrides the standard engine gimbal range, and thrusts in the proper direction is that the spacecraft doesn't torque itself into submission. Your craft isn't balanced in the same way that CSS is, so to keep it flying right, it's sending the engines to some crazy gimbal.

ah ok, so there is no way for me to fix this? Thank you for the response.

I completely understand that im taking your mod and trying to force it to work with another set up. which it is not designed for.

[War Eagle 1]

American pack updated to 0.24

- 0.21.1 compatibility

- new SRB model

-------------------------------------

Soviet pack updated to 1.8.8

-0.21.1 compatibility

-delete old structure and control parts (MIR_ASAS and MIR_probe)

-delete old craft file (For new craft files wait next update)

(Soviet pack assymetric crafts Kliper and Buran have little problem white new ASAS system, wait next update)

This must be by your shuttle has not been updated. Thats fine. Cant wait to use it again. I think I can speak for everyone who has used this mod in saying we can be patient and we have confidence in you two (bobcat and Cepheus )

[POTKC]

This must be by your shuttle has not been updated. Thats fine. Cant wait to use it again. I think I can speak for everyone who has used this mod in saying we can be patient and we have confidence in you two (bobcat and Cepheus )

CSS is not part of BobCat's American Pack, so the post that you quoted has nothing to do with it.

[War Eagle 1]

CSS is not part of BobCat's American Pack, so the post that you quoted has nothing to do with it.

True but I do believe (correct me if Im wrong Cepheus) that Cepheus and bobcat are working together or Cepheus is using bobcats tech from the Buran in his CSS. So with the Buran tech not available right now, the CSS is also unable to be created. If what I'm saying is true we will either see one of three things

1 the new Buran will come out before the new CSS

2 vis versa

3 both will come out relatively at the same time

If I'm wrong then I will gladly recant my statement

[The kerman brothers]

Well I need help bad for this mod see When I try to land somewhere right after Re-entry I try to descend but then the shuttle goes crazy when I try to pull up even mechjeb can't save it help please?

[Kerbal01]

Empty the fuel tanks, it'll balance it out more

[Cepheus]

Hey folks, I've actually forgotten who was on the testing team, and I need 5-10 people here. Send me a PM, and I'll add you to the list.

thanks.

The ET has been rescaled, sere are some images.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited August 3, 2013 by Cepheus

[War Eagle 1]

Hey folks, I've actually forgotten who was on the testing team, and I need 5-10 people here. Send me a PM, and I'll add you to the list.

thanks.

Is this for the .21 update?

[viperwolf]

Is this for the .21 update?

Im sure it for .21 but it was not broken in the last update .20-.21.1. He is just improving on a wonderful mod that had a few bugs.

[MDBenson]

The re-scale looks much better Cephus.

I guess it's no quick-fix to convert this to the new SAS. I tried reconfiguring the TSAS Forward RCS to a Part with a ReactionWheel part and the crap hit the fan. The stack pitches over forwards even with SAS on. I'm guessing the engine balancer doohickmee relies on that TSAS module being there or does it interface (interfere??) with the old-style ASAS??

Edited August 3, 2013 by MDBenson

[Cepheus]

The re-scale looks much better Cephus.

I guess it's no quick-fix to convert this to the new SAS. I tried reconfiguring the TSAS Forward RCS to a Part with a ReactionWheel part and the crap hit the fan. The stack pitches over forwards even with SAS on. I'm guessing the engine balancer doohickmee relies on that TSAS module being there or does it interface (interfere??) with the old-style ASAS??

SAS conversion isn't a simple thing. The command SAS was no big deal, but since TSAS is working just fine, I'm leaning toward just letting it be.

Since some people are having some issues with launch/landing, I made an overview video. It isn't by any means a tutorial, but this is just what I do when I fly. Take note of when I start the roll program, roll upright, and how I handle OMS-2 (circularization burn), where I set the landing autopilot to, and how I do the reentry interface. Eventually, I'd like to write a guide to all this, but it isn't a very high priority right now.

The landing wasn't perfect, but hey- it was on the runway.

Couple more minor changes, too. the booster decouplers and the ET decoupler now have 0 ejection force. Reduces some crazy torque.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Cepheus

[MDBenson]

SAS conversion isn't a simple thing. The command SAS was no big deal, but since TSAS is working just fine, I'm leaning toward just letting it be.

Since some people are having some issues with launch/landing, I made an overview video. It isn't by any means a tutorial, but this is just what I do when I fly. Take note of when I start the roll program, roll upright, and how I handle OMS-2 (circularization burn), where I set the landing autopilot to, and how I do the reentry interface. Eventually, I'd like to write a guide to all this, but it isn't a very high priority right now.

The landing wasn't perfect, but hey- it was on the runway.

Couple more minor changes, too. the booster decouplers and the ET decoupler now have 0 ejection force. Reduces some crazy torque.

I assume TSAS is complete replacement SAS system in a plugin module? If so then I guess it'll stick. I think if that's the case my theory about the new SAS not reacting fast enough to correct the thrust imbalance is about right. New SAS is great for straight-up-and-down rockets and stopping space stations wobbling to bits but sucks for more unusual stuff.

Just out of curiosity, what ascent profile do you use in MechJeb? It looks a lot steeper than mine.

[m4ti140]

TSAS is AFAIK the old ASAS, but it's tooglable. So, since it uses old ASAS logic it is still wobbly and wastes RCS. Unless it was updated by author. The new ASAS logic would work great on space shuttle, since it works like fly-by-wire on spaceplane - it helps with stability instead of locking the attitude (or rather - it keeps attitude unless pilot changes it). It would allow aerodynamically unstable CoM position, which is necessary to allow maintaining attitude at reentry, without making it impossible to land.

TSAS is an outdated addon and old ASAS was useless, I never used it bc it tore my planes apart.

Also SAS isn't system that deals with trust imbalance, it's the job of compensator plugin, which is AFAIK a bit broken in 0.20+, that's why it doesn't respond fast enough. Old one doesn't deal with thrust imbalance better.

EDIT: About take-off and roll program - I suggest rotating whole shuttle in editor so that vertical stabliser points west. No, not east, I'm not suggesting eliminating roll program. Note that at liftoff shuttle drifts downward relative to the shuttle (in the direction of ET). That's because resultant thrust vector points there. If you set it ET-east on launchpad, you will get horizontal velocity pointing east right at the liftoff, so that after doing 180* roll you will fly in correct direction. If you leave the deffault VAB orientation, the shuttle will drift north before roll program, and you'll need to cancel that. If you turn it in VAB it will drift east instead - and that's when you want it to go. Besides IRL shuttle rolls much more than 90*, close to 180* IIRC.

You should also try starting gravity turn already at 0 km, right after liftoff and roll program (this would prevent drifting west after roll program) and ending it as soon as at 45-50km. If your vertical velocity starts to approach 0, do the roll-upright. If it does it to early, use OMS assist next time (after SRB seperation engage OMS engines and disengage them before roll-upright using action groups). IRL Shuttles used agressive gravity turn as well, they even had negeative vertical velocity at some point.

Also remember to disable TSAS before launching, that's why I suggest switching to new ASAS - MJ recognizes TSAS as regular SAS and it will try to kill you by enabling ASAS to prevent itself from performing the correct gravity turn

Edited August 4, 2013 by m4ti140

[MDBenson]

It's precisely because the new SAS logic doesn't lock the attitude of the craft that means it can't cope with ascent. Remember, the Shuttle is not a plane on ascent (for the large part), it's a rocket. The new SAS might work on the way down real well (*makes a mental note to try that*) but it does not work on the way up the way the TSAS or MechJeb do (by doing aggressive attitude holding by using the engine gimbal). The ascent profile of the Shuttle stack is computer controlled and maintained, it's not flown by hand, thus it's subjected to attitude holding by the flight computer, only the Shuttle flight computer makes small changes gently to keep it on course, whereas TSAS and the old ASAS aggressively adjust it constantly. The biggest issue I can see with the TSAS/old ASAS is it tends to over-adjust and ends up flapping at the problem and building up resonance, rather than making micro-adjustments to maintain attitude steadily.

[m4ti140]

The issue with TSAS/old ASAS is that it requires turning off and on to change attitude, which is annoying if you don't use MJ. And if you use MJ, there is a serious issue with TSAS that seems to have went unnoticed - Mechjeb doesn't recognize it as ASAS, and keeps it on all the time. If you don't disable TSAS using right click menu before launch, the shuttle will go straight up until SRB separation, messing up whole ascent, no matter how agressive gravity turn you set. IRL SRBs are separated when shuttle goes almost horizontal - otherwise gravity losses would be horrible because SSME has relatively low TWR.

Funny thing is that MJ performs best without any ASAS unit installed, with its own input only.

BTW, I'm gonna try finding the most realistic launch sequence for this shuttle and post it here.

EDIT: As of going way down - old asas kept constant attitude in global refference frame instead of LV/LH. I dunno about the new one though . Whichever one you use though, if CoM isn't almost at CoL (or even behind), it won't keep attitude (actually attitude is on reentry is adjusted using CoM shift IRL), it will pitch back to 0 AoA, but it also won't be controllable on final - unless you drop fuel, which will turn you into a leaf if you drop more than 3/4 of tank (unless you use FAR).

If I were to suggest some change to the mod - besides a probe pointed at OMS thrust vector - is shifting the whole COM backwards and adding monopropelant tank to the nose - that's how it is done IRL. Before EI nose tank is emptied to shift COM to the position required for 40* AoA (which shuttle kept during entire reentry, using bank to change sink rate). Now with a bit more gentle fuel drop part and TAC fuel balancer one would be able to adjust CoM before reentry (and after reentry drop the rest of fuel to shift CoM back forwards, to get controll).

Edited August 4, 2013 by m4ti140

[ssg]

Thank you, gents, for a stunning mod!

You know what would complete this mod? Some kind of payload racks to be loaded into the shuttle's bay. Something to add visual appeal, and structural support for multiple satellites or sats that are too small to warrant the whole bay to themselves.

Just my two cents, Im sure a lot of the fixes mentioned beforehand come first!

In addendum: talking about MechJeb, Ive only barely tested it, but Ive had no troubles while using the Ascent Autopilot and Smart ASS

What are those things inside your shuttle? I tried to search mod for something to put inside CSS shuttle and then put them to orbit, but I could not find any.

[vector253]

What are those things inside your shuttle? I tried to search mod for something to put inside CSS shuttle and then put them to orbit, but I could not find any.

That looks like the unity node from the ISS mod pack started by bobcat and a few others

The pack is still under the in devolopment area but its a great pack

Hope that helps

[War Eagle 1]

What are those things inside your shuttle? I tried to search mod for something to put inside CSS shuttle and then put them to orbit, but I could not find any.

If you want something to put into orbit with a shuttle....try this

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-4-zeus-space-telescope/

[BlueFalcon77]

Just a quick suggestion, Cepheus. Could you possibly extend the burn time of the SSRBs to 2 minutes? It'd be more of a perfect shuttle mod if you have a more realistic burn time. That way, the SSRBs would be jettisoned in the upper atmosphere. Right now, they jettison at around 10-12000 metres, that's not even 40,000 feet. Other than that, the shuttle mod is beyond superb. I was able to get it off the pad no problem, no mechjeb, no anything, just a steady hand; and with a near-perfect roll programâ€â€"Roger Roll!" Keep up the fantastic work. I salute your effort at making the space shuttle into a reality for KSP players everywhere.

[vector253]

Just a quick suggestion, Cepheus. Could you possibly extend the burn time of the SSRBs to 2 minutes? It'd be more of a perfect shuttle mod if you have a more realistic burn time. That way, the SSRBs would be jettisoned in the upper atmosphere. Right now, they jettison at around 10-12000 metres, that's not even 40,000 feet. Other than that, the shuttle mod is beyond superb. I was able to get it off the pad no problem, no mechjeb, no anything, just a steady hand; and with a near-perfect roll programâ€â€"Roger Roll!" Keep up the fantastic work. I salute your effort at making the space shuttle into a reality for KSP players everywhere.

If you go into the SRB config and change the solid fuel count to 8000 it gives you booster separation at 2:01 minutes, which is about perfect