Squad why cant we keep the old wing parts?

[Majorjim!]

Hi all,

As some of you may know, Squad said that there would be a grace period before all the old wing parts where removed.

This didn't happen as they removed the small and large ailerons.

I would like to ask Squad why did you not give us the same grace period with those parts?

And would it be so awful If they and the other wing parts where left in game?

Yeah sure they are not a shiny as the SP+ parts but what's wrong with having more options?

The SP+ wings are so thick they are not as usefull for complex builds..

Thank you for listening and I hope someone from Squad reads this.

MJ

[andrew123]

Please answer, Squad. Those small control surfaces were amazing, and the new control surfaces are just too unwieldy and inflexible.

If you truly value input from your customers, please, at least listen to the input of your long time KSP players. Who knows, we might even stop suggesting KSP to our own contacts...

But really, that was a short sighted decision, Squad.

[worir4]

Does this mean we are keeping all the old parts that are still in like the RAM intake?

[Jonnyp]

But really, that was a short sighted decision, Squad.

I'd actually consider it to be a long-sighted decision. There's still a way to go until 1.0 and I'm sure many parts will change between now and then. Leaving in every part iteration since the dawn of time will lead to a bloated selection of parts and much confusion for new players. Feedback on the new parts I'm sure would be taken on board and into consideration, but simply keeping old parts because some people don't like change will hinder progression in my opinion

[Majorjim!]

I'd actually consider it to be a long-sighted decision. There's still a way to go until 1.0 and I'm sure many parts will change between now and then. Leaving in every part iteration since the dawn of time will lead to a bloated selection of parts and much confusion for new players. Feedback on the new parts I'm sure would be taken on board and into consideration, but simply keeping old parts because some people don't like change will hinder progression in my opinion

I disagree. More parts is better whichever way you look at it.

New players are introduced to the parts via the career path.

[andrew123]

I'd actually consider it to be a long-sighted decision. There's still a way to go until 1.0 and I'm sure many parts will change between now and then. Leaving in every part iteration since the dawn of time will lead to a bloated selection of parts and much confusion for new players. Feedback on the new parts I'm sure would be taken on board and into consideration, but simply keeping old parts because some people don't like change will hinder progression in my opinion

Unfortunately, not all change is good.

If you've played KSP for years, you'd also have come to recognize the utility of these smaller control surfaces. Simply cutting out one of the most versatile parts in the game because 'it's not shiny enough' isn't always the best solution.

[Frozen_Heart]

I agree that there needs to be some small control surfaces. The replacements are about twice the size.

[oggylt]

It think it was a was a short sighted decision, that it was a short sighted decision, Andrew.

[andrew123]

I agree that there needs to be some small control surfaces. The replacements are about twice the size.

Not to mention their dimensions are ridiculous. how are we supposed to 'let go of our earthly tethers' when the old parts were, in fact, better?

It think it was a was a short sighted decision, that it was a short sighted decision, Andrew.

My brain's fried right now. I'm running on caffeine. (Repetitions. Haha.)

Edited October 8, 2014 by andrew123

[Sky_walker]

I disagree. More parts is better whichever way you look at it.

New players are introduced to the parts via the career path.

I agree, though I would like to see some tools to make browsing through the parts easier. Like a search function that I've been asking for since joining the forum.

[Majorjim!]

Not to mention their dimensions are ridiculous. how are we supposed to 'let go of our earthly tethers' when the old parts were, in fact, better?

http://i.imgur.com/rGP5t5F.png

.

My brain's fried right now. I'm running on caffeine right now.

Agreed, it's a step backwards

[Jonnyp]

More parts is better whichever way you look at it.

That is completely subjective. I'd rather have 1 version of each part and keep my parts list clean with all my ships having a similar theme. If I were a new player I would be put off by having to work out the marginal differences between the 12 different versions of the delta wing in my parts list.

KSP will be constantly evolving until it hits 1.0 (and probably even after that) so all feedback will be taken on board, however, in my humble opinion I don't think keeping every version of every part is a good idea. Suggesting modifications to a new part, on the other hand, would be great feedback for Squad to have!

Not to mention, saying that the old parts are 'better' is also completely a matter of opinion. I'm pretty sure if the roles were reversed, and you'd all been using the new parts for x number of years/months, then suddenly they were replaced with the old parts, you'd be complaining about exactly the same thing?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Jonnyp

[Sky_walker]

That is completely subjective. I'd rather have 1 version of each part and keep my parts list clean with all my ships having a similar theme. If I were a new player I would be put off by having to work out the marginal differences between the 12 different versions of the delta wing in my parts list.

This can easily be migrated by a proper filtering, sorting and a search functionality.

KSP got an interface that's far from being great.

[andrew123]

That is completely subjective. I'd rather have 1 version of each part and keep my parts list clean with all my ships having a similar theme. If I were a new player I would be put off by having to work out the marginal differences between the 12 different versions of the delta wing in my parts list.

KSP will be constantly evolving until it hits 1.0 (and probably even after that) so all feedback will be taken on board, however, in my humble opinion I don't think keeping every version of every part is a good idea. Suggesting modifications to a new part, on the other hand, would be great feedback for Squad to have!

We're not suggesting that they should put in EVERYTHING, but that they shouldn't have replaced the old parts with inferior ones.

How are we supposed to make small aircraft with those humongous aerodynamic parts? It's either make them fugly or clunky.

This can easily be migrated by a proper filtering, sorting and a search functionality.

KSP got an interface that's far from being great.

Also, I agree on the search function. It's a mystery why they haven't made one yet.

[Majorjim!]

That is completely subjective. I'd rather have 1 version of each part and keep my parts list clean with all my ships having a similar theme. If I were a new player I would be put off by having to work out the marginal differences between the 12 different versions of the delta wing in my parts list.

KSP will be constantly evolving until it hits 1.0 (and probably even after that) so all feedback will be taken on board, however, in my humble opinion I don't think keeping every version of every part is a good idea. Suggesting modifications to a new part, on the other hand, would be great feedback for Squad to have!

If you play long enough you will see that one set of a certain part just isn't enough.

This game is about pushing your imagination and less parts means less variation.

What could you possibly have against more options?

Is it really that hard to search through an extra 6 parts or so?

[Majorjim!]

This can easily be migrated by a proper filtering, sorting and a search functionality.

KSP got an interface that's far from being great.

Agreed! It would be very simple to implement a proper part search function.

[Jonnyp]

they shouldn't have replaced the old parts with inferior ones.

I don't know how many times I can say this, but the fact that you think the parts are 'inferior' is completely subjective. I'm sure everyone involved in the development of KSP doesn't think they are inferior, or they wouldn't have made it into the game.

I, for one, think the new parts are much better, and they've actually given me the impetus to dabble in spaceplanes more, where I didn't really have much interest in them before.

You are correct in that the parts menu needs a re-work though. Even with the current stock set of parts, its a pain to navigate. Search and/or filtering would greatly improve it.

[MKI]

In time all the old parts will go anyways. Complaining about a lack of a grace period on certain parts is more of an expectation than an actual agreement issue. The fact there is a grace period at all is a present from squad. Really all they had to do was replace the files and BAM wacko conversions to the new parts. Instead they went the "player friendly route" and gaves us both parts at the same time. Yes there are issues, but if they said straight up "All old crafts with these parts will be broken" no one would have the rights to complain about it.

Eventually all the old parts will go, so the fact they aren't here now is a bummer, but is it a bad decision by squad? Not exactly, it does suck for those expecting it. Im sure there WILL actually be a way to keep the old parts working.

Squad's second offical mod, legacy spaceplane parts.

Simple as that, hell an un-official one would do to. Just throw the old parts back in to make old craft still viable, but optional.

I for one, and many others will simply redesign crafts, make them better, update them and in the end make BETTER ones by simply moving with the games development cycle.

Complaining about changes is one thing, complaining about PROGRESS is another. This change is undoubtobly progressive twoard the future. (Gimme MK3 cargo bays 8D )

[O-Doc]

They're not spaceplane enthusiasts. They don't get it. The SP+ control surfaces look as silly as B9 control surfaces.

[andrew123]

They're not spaceplane enthusiasts. They don't get it. The SP+ control surfaces look as silly as B9 control surfaces.

Agreed. Once you've become accustomed to KSP space planes, you'll see just how idiotic these new parts look and act.

Don't act like an expert if you 'haven't dabbled' in an area yet.

[Majorjim!]

They're not spaceplane enthusiasts. They don't get it. The SP+ control surfaces look as silly as B9 control surfaces.

Agreed.

I'm tired of seeing the same type of craft over and over again. The new wing parts are too think to be usefull on small builds.

KSP desperately needs more parts for smaller craft.

All were saying is why reduce the possibilities in a game all about possibilities?

[Jonnyp]

Don't act like an expert if you 'haven't dabbled' in an area yet.

I'm not acting like an expert... I'm just pointing out that saying the new parts are rubbish and you want the old ones back is just opinion, and also not helpful. Suggesting how the new parts could be improved, would be useful and productive

[Linear]

Agreed. Once you've become accustomed to KSP space planes, you'll see just how idiotic these new parts look and act.

Don't act like an expert if you 'haven't dabbled' in an area yet.

The SP+ parts are better, that's why the majority of people were excited to see them added to stock.

Fair enough if you think differently (and i haven't had enough time to see how 'the small tweaks' have affected the parts), i believe you should defiantly be allowed to have the old parts work and be available.

[andrew123]

I'm not acting like an expert... I'm just pointing out that saying the new parts are rubbish and you want the old ones back is just opinion, and also not helpful. Suggesting how the new parts could be improved, would be useful and productive

That's regressive thinking.

Why 'improve' the new parts, if the old ones could fill the gap with no work put into them?!

ARGH!

The SP+ parts are better, that's why the majority of people were excited to see them added to stock.

Fair enough if you think differently (and i haven't had enough time to see how 'the small tweaks' have affected the parts), i believe you should defiantly be allowed to have the old parts work and be available.

What if I told you, the DIMENSIONS of these parts are ridiculous. These SP+ parts make the game nearly unplayable for people such as Majorjim and I.

Edited October 8, 2014 by andrew123

[Majorjim!]

I don't know how many times I can say this, but the fact that you think the parts are 'inferior' is completely subjective. I'm sure everyone involved in the development of KSP doesn't think they are inferior, or they wouldn't have made it into the game.

I, for one, think the new parts are much better, and they've actually given me the impetus to dabble in spaceplanes more, where I didn't really have much interest in them before.

Squad added them because they think they look better. And as a small group they don't have time to make them themselves.

You are correct in that the parts menu needs a re-work though. Even with the current stock set of parts, its a pain to navigate. Search and/or filtering would greatly improve it.

They are not 'better' in terms of actual imaginative building. Something I love about the game.

You will see, the new SP+ parts craft will all look very similar. Ie, boring