Squad why cant we keep the old wing parts?

[Majorjim!]

Here is sketch of what we want, though I don't think Squad needs it on the Bug tracker, I fairly sure they know what it looks like.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/b/b0/Small_Control_Surface-t.png

Yes that the part! A very useful and versatile part at that.

[GusTurbo]

If they were to bring back the old control surfaces, I hope they would retexture them. They always looked terrible, IMO.

[Majorjim!]

If they were to bring back the old control surfaces, I hope they would retexture them. They always looked terrible, IMO.

The little aileron posted above looked ok to me. It was great for small builds because it was all White, thin and the smallest usable structural part after the backwards solar panels and cubic struts.

Buy using those meant a mega part count..

The new ones are bigger and much thicker.

[VR_Dev]

If they were to bring back the old control surfaces, I hope they would retexture them. They always looked terrible, IMO.

I've always hidden them in the delta wing. It looks ridiculous sticking off the back on a small craft. It doesn't work on the tail however.

Edited October 8, 2014 by clown_baby

[randomness5555]

I'll say but this. Squad never said that any parts they make are permenant-so as much as you might dislike the change (atm-I don't know what I think-I havn't updated yet but will as soon as I get home) this was always a possibility, and at least they let you know in advance. Personally, I look forward to any new parts usually.

[XIRA]

I tried converting this plane and it looked absolutely horrible. Those swept wings no longer have control surfaces that fit on the wing. I've seen a lot of neat biplanes and such made with those wings, I'd hate to seem them fall into uselessness. Having multiple styles gives us much more design flexibility so all our planes don't look identical. I don't want the old cockpit, or tanks, or even the old modular wings back... I just want the control surfaces back, and that is it.

http://i.imgur.com/MClnTlW.png

looks alright to me, maybe even better to be honest:

I have to agree on the removal of the smallest winglets, those were incredibly useful. I also think they should give the new fuselages a metal look like the X-200-32 fuel tanks

[Alshain]

looks alright to me, maybe even better to be honest:

http://i.imgur.com/IkNl6Pm.jpg?1

I have to agree on the removal of the smallest winglets, those were incredibly useful. I also think they should give the new fuselages a metal look like the X-200-32 fuel tanks

No offense, that looks awful. The control surfaces are overly highlighted by the black rims, and they are clipping each other. I can't see from the angle but I was unable to get them to look like they were attached to the plane. If you pan around do they look like they are floating off the plane? Note that my wings were high dihedral (correction) anhedral , if your wings are flat you haven't replicated my plane, I'd post a craft file but I'm not going to be home for hours. Keeping them flat would leave the CoL too high and it would fly poorly.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Alshain

[LethalDose]

For what it's worth, MaxMaps said in last week's KSPTV live stream they were going to leave the replaced parts in for 0.25, and remove them in 0.26. After 0.26, he said it was a possibility that Squad could release a "legacy" mod.

I guess that message didn't get where it needed to go...

[VR_Dev]

No offense, that looks awful. The control surfaces are overly highlighted by the black rims, and they are clipping each other. I can't see from the angle but I was unable to get them to look like they were attached to the plane. (Note: My wings were high dihedral, if your wings are flat you haven't replicated my plane, I'd post a craft file but I'm not going to be home for hours) If you pan around do they look like they are floating off the plane?

I had that problem too, with the floating flaps. You have to attach the flaps when the wings are flat, then angle them all together.

Attaching the flaps to wings that aren't flat means you have to tilt the flaps to match the angle of your wing.

I assume that's what high dihedral means lol

[Alshain]

I had that problem too, with the floating flaps. You have to attach the flaps when the wings are flat, then angle them all together.

Attaching the flaps to wings that aren't flat means you have to tilt the flaps to match the angle of your wing

That might work, it still doesn't fit the problem of their appearance not matching the wings. On that particular plane my end 0.25 result was to remove the ailerons all together and use the active winglets for both roll and pitch. The wings are just fixed now. It still flew better the old way. Regardless, those swept wings are really nice for some designs, especially if your going for an airplane look (as opposed to a jet look) but now they have less capability. One modification of this design I had was to take a KAX prop and put in on the front, made it look like a crop duster, but now I can't fly it.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Alshain

[Majorjim!]

For what it's worth, MaxMaps said in last week's KSPTV live stream they were going to leave the replaced parts in for 0.25, and remove them in 0.26. After 0.26, he said it was a possibility that Squad could release a "legacy" mod.

I guess that message didn't get where it needed to go...

So why did they remove the small an large aileron???

[GusTurbo]

So why did they remove the small an large aileron???

Could have been an oversight. Those seem pretty common in this game.

[Wooks]

I'm a subpar plane builder at best, and reading the entire thread (yes, I did read it, sighed a lot, laughed a lot and really got interested in the issue) I would love to see more images of planes built with the old decomissioned parts compared to their new counterparts.

I would love to hear what Flobbert/BagelRabbit has to say about this issue. he's a tiny planes builder extraordinaire.

[Alshain]

I'm a subpar plane builder at best, and reading the entire thread (yes, I did read it, sighed a lot, laughed a lot and really got interested in the issue) I would love to see more images of planes built with the old decomissioned parts compared to their new counterparts.

I would love to hear what Flobbert/BagelRabbit has to say about this issue. he's a tiny planes builder extraordinaire.

There was a really creative stock bi-plane made by Jasonli on Mator's stream a few days back. I wish I had a picture of that to show you.

[BagelRabbit]

I would love to hear what Flobbert/BagelRabbit has to say about this issue. he's a tiny planes builder extraordinaire.

I have been summoned!

Just my two cents:

~75% of the craft I currently build only 'work,' aesthetically and otherwise, with the old small control surfaces. The main problem with the new control surfaces seems to be their thickness, although they are also slightly larger overall. I often used small control surfaces to give wing area to craft unobtrusively, such as this 'bird':

This sort of design simply would not work with the larger control surfaces, as they're big enough and thick enough to completely throw off the design.

I know that the new parts are better in many ways. They're suited very well to large craft, and they reduce clipping. But I don't like building larger craft, and I know that others like small craft, too. I think that we should keep the small control surface in, for the sake of variety, if nothing else.

In the future, I would be very happy if SQUAD made their new small control surface thinner and maybe a bit lighter in color. I don't think that returning to the old control surface's exact scheme is really needed, but I would like a better replacement.

By the way, guys, please don't be arguing like this. I know that there are some strong opinions flying, but I don't think that insults, name-calling, or any other personal attacks are ever appropriate. Thank you.

[Wanderfound]

I like the new wing part personally. However there are several old parts that have no decent new version which is a problem.

Also small aircraft are now a pain to make because of the thickness of the new wings.

Also the control surfaces are reacting the wrong way on mine so the planes nosedive when I try to pull up. :/

That sounds like a bug.

I'm finding the new tapered swept wings very good for small aerobatic planes. And when you combine them with some strakes and the parallelogram swept wings, you can make some very nice big stuff.

I haven't found a spot yet where the square SP+ control surfaces won't fit. They go fine mounted on reversed strakes stuck in between flanking RAPIERs and a central nuke.

[Red Iron Crown]

So why did they remove the small an large aileron???

I bet they were considering some of the new control surfaces as 1:1 replacements for them. Clearly not a perfect replacement for everyone, though.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

So why did they remove the small an large aileron???

Don't we effectively have 5 new aileron (that's not what they're called now, but they serve the same function) parts to replace the two we lost? What am I missing?

[Tw1]

Don't we effectively have 5 new aileron (that's not what they're called now, but they serve the same function) parts to replace the two we lost? What am I missing?

Yes, but they aren't entirely equivalent too the old ones.

http://imgur.com/a/BjBlp

[Wooks]

I have been summoned!

Okay, that was fast.

[BagelRabbit]

Okay, that was fast.

I was already posting on the thread when you commented. I'm just all magical, and stuff.

[XIRA]

No offense, that looks awful. The control surfaces are overly highlighted by the black rims, and they are clipping each other. I can't see from the angle but I was unable to get them to look like they were attached to the plane. If you pan around do they look like they are floating off the plane? Note that my wings were high dihedral, if your wings are flat you haven't replicated my plane, I'd post a craft file but I'm not going to be home for hours. Keeping them flat would leave the CoL too high and it would fly poorly.

http://i.imgur.com/ucyf1z7.png

they should replace the blackness by the same grey that is used on the ''delta-deluxe winglet'' and make the lines thiner. My remake of your plane didn't have angled wings so I just tries to attach them to a angled wing and it's indeed impossible to do, so thats something that Squad should look into too.

[VR_Dev]

I'm a subpar plane builder at best, and reading the entire thread (yes, I did read it, sighed a lot, laughed a lot and really got interested in the issue) I would love to see more images of planes built with the old decomissioned parts compared to their new counterparts.

I would love to hear what Flobbert/BagelRabbit has to say about this issue. he's a tiny planes builder extraordinaire.

One of my many new abominations. To me the older parts just looked sharper and more realistic

Sleek and pretty .24.5 with the flaps under and inside the wing

.25 version

The body can be saved, just not the wings

Edited October 8, 2014 by clown_baby

[SkyHook]

I love the new parts. As a modder I might actually use them instead of procedural wings.

[SparkyFox]

IWNO

In With the New and the Old

This is for people who dont loike thenew wings or MK1 parts or just simpy want the Mk1 parts and Wings parts aswell

Edited October 8, 2014 by SparkyFox