Squad why cant we keep the old wing parts?

[WooDzor]

Look I think the point of the proponents of the old parts (incl. me) is that we spend weeks/months to put a realistic/beautiful mission and craft together to make it work. We care about our crafts unlike some of you who haphazardly throw some tanks, a rocket and some boosters together, call it a craft and crash it into the Mun or the in the ocean 300 meters from the launchpad.

Flying my old crafts (300MB of them)is part of the fun i get from the game and I enjoy even more looking at other peoples crafts like Majorjim's and Mulbin's. The solution of copying the old ailerons in as a mod, that was proposed by someone in this threat is no solution: We play stock and enjoy sharing our creations with others on the forum. This would be asking from everybody to update their old shared crafts. There must be many 100.000s of man hours in all the craft files combined and this time is just being thrown away because of 2 parts being removed from the stock game, it is ridiculous and I fully understand and support MJ, A123 and everybody else who wants these two parts back.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Yes, but they aren't entirely equivalent too the old ones.

http://imgur.com/a/BjBlp

http://i.imgur.com/oqbNRj2l.png

http://i.imgur.com/5YYoj5ll.png

OK. They don't look exactly the same (kinda duh). And...?

I mean, is there something about how they function that suddenly makes them worse?

[Alshain]

OK. They don't look exactly the same (kinda duh). And...?

I mean, is there something about how they function that suddenly makes them worse?

Why is function the only thing that is important? I like my craft to look good and function well.

[Wanderfound]

I'm a subpar plane builder at best, and reading the entire thread (yes, I did read it, sighed a lot, laughed a lot and really got interested in the issue) I would love to see more images of planes built with the old decomissioned parts compared to their new counterparts.

Not quite part-for-part, but...

Stock Benchmark:

Tuned-up SP+ version:

Stock fuel tanker:

SP+ Tanker:

[SparkyFox]

OK. They don't look exactly the same (kinda duh). And...?

I mean, is there something about how they function that suddenly makes them worse?

see the new wings parts it makes my best aircraft stall, I could pull up from like the lowest point without crashing from a really high speed and makes the sharpest turns without stalling, i think the old parts were better

[O-Doc]

Exactly WooDzor. To me it's like the update has broken all my saves and I have to start from scratch. I don't mind that too much but the replacements are not substitutes and bring with them plenty of issues that C7 had already solved.

One of my many new abominations. To me the older parts just looked sharper and more realistic

Sleek and pretty .24.5 with the flaps under and inside the wing

http://i.imgur.com/KCSm5NW.png

.25 version

http://i.imgur.com/1rDvwgQ.png

The body can be saved, just not the wings

This post pretty much sums up my catalogue. 1000s of hours gone.

EDIT: OK, maybe one thousand or more...

Edited October 8, 2014 by O-Doc

[r4pt0r]

thing is, the game is alpha, and you have got to let go of the old versions at some point. save them if you wish, by all means, but come v.1.0, im sure many parts will have redesigns, small tweaks to the nodes, ect.... This is the price of playing early access.

Its like expecting saves to keep working through updates. they don't transfer all the time, and neither will .craft files. Coddling will only slow down the forward progress.

[BagelRabbit]

Not quite part-for-part, but...

Stock Benchmark:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Challenges/Up%20and%20Down/screenshot42_zpsfbe5f9ee.jpg

Tuned-up SP+ version:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Challenges/Up%20and%20Down/screenshot190_zpsd72b4623.jpg

Stock fuel tanker:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/screenshot387_zpsa2eba3b2.png

SP+ Tanker:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/screenshot387_zpsa2eba3b2.png

Your stock and SP+ fuel tankers look suspiciously similar (as in they're the same image.). It's probably Chading's fault. Curse you, Chading!

[edit: fixed.]

Edited October 8, 2014 by UpsilonAerospace

[Alshain]

thing is, the game is alpha, and you have got to let go of the old versions at some point. save them if you wish, by all means, but come v.1.0, im sure many parts will have redesigned, small tweaks to the nodes. This is the price of playing early access.

Its like expecting saves to keep working through updates. they don't transfer all the time, and neither will .craft files. Coddling will only slow down the forward progress.

Your missing the point. It's not about keeping the .craft files, it's the fact they removed tools that we thought we perfectly fine as they were. There was no reason to remove the old, they were fine. I can rebuild a plane, but only if the parts are there. You can't really even make a memory space argument, it's 2 parts, if you count the wings it's 5 parts. It's not breaking the bank. I really can't understand why people are so adamant about NOT getting them back. If you don't like them, don't use them. Having them doesn't hurt you, not having them does hurt us.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Why is function the only thing that is important? I like my craft to look good and function well.

I have a feeling that if we're going to get into a discussion about what "looks good," a lot of people are going to get upset when Squad does the almost inevitable re-do on the looks of the rest of the parts.

I mean, I get the point. I like my how my plane looks like too. But I kinda feel like this is akin to people being like "bring back the OOOOOOLLLLD rocket parts b/c they looked better!"

[Alshain]

I have a feeling that if we're going to get into a discussion about what "looks good," a lot of people are going to get upset when Squad does the almost inevitable re-do on the looks of the rest of the parts.

I mean, I get the point. I like my how my plane looks like too. But I kinda feel like this is akin to people being like "bring back the OOOOOOLLLLD rocket parts b/c they looked better!"

Well, true. However I feel this is a bit different. I personally have no issues with the new Mk1 cockpit or tanks. They look different but not enough to be upset about. The control surfaces on the other hand are a rapid departure, both in looks and how they attach. I don't even care about the old modular wings, I can make the new ones work well enough. For me it's just the 2 control surfaces. That is what my issue is with it. I can't speak for everyone else of course.

[WooDzor]

OK. They don't look exactly the same (kinda duh). And...?

I mean, is there something about how they function that suddenly makes them worse?

Aaaand you just proved my point about haphazardly slapping parts together :'D

Anyway; what's the big deal about keeping these two parts stock? Just keep 'm in and if you don't like them don't use them. Everybody happy.

Edited October 8, 2014 by WooDzor

[Majorjim!]

Yup! Thanks agree'ers!

For example my SPR rover and batmobile look far better with the old

Small aileron. As does my bi-plane I made with a teeny tiny cockpit.

All possible with that part.

I will post pics later as comparison.

I'm really happy this is sparking a debate!

Yay 1000th post

[Yellowburn10]

Huh, people don't like the new/replacement parts because of their look and functions? I can't think of a time where this has happened before...

But really, it seemed like most if not all of us were onboard for spaceplane+ integration, now you're asking them to bring some old parts back because the new parts look bad or are not as versatile? And people are even threatening to boycott the game because of control surfaces? Control surfaces, guys! I understand you may be upset because some of your craft doesn't work anymore or looks weird, but going as far as a boycott is a bit ridiculous!

If anything, squad has said that anything and everything in the game is subject to change. So if squad wants to change the plane parts, they'll do it. I'm sure squad will hear your voices and make adjustments, but for now we'll all have to deal with this, whether you like it or not.

Or, if you still can't deal with it, there are plenty of ways to get the parts back in the game.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Yellowburn10

[SparkyFox]

does anyone here want the old wings back?

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/224774-hawx-in-with-the-new-and-old-mod

[VR_Dev]

It definitely just feels like time wasted which is why I'm bummed. I finally thought I had a market of quality aircraft set up. But it's cool I'm done complaining. I hope squad knows I still appreciate the update. Being able to toggle surface attach is awesome.

As for now I'm gonna use this mod to get my completed craft into the game until I build some new .25 ones. I know it sucks not being "stock" but it beats throwing my crafts in the trash.

It really is easy to open your craft files in a text editor and ctr-find to change the part names.

Edit: One of my .24.2 ships loaded into .25, no rebuild required.

Edited October 8, 2014 by clown_baby

[Alshain]

Huh, people don't like the new/replacement parts because of their look and functions? I can't think of a time where this has happened before...

Incorrect. When you see everything in black and white, you limit the options. We like the new parts, but we also like the old parts and feel that both have their uses and there was realistically no reason to remove them.

But really, it seemed like most if not all of us were onboard for spaceplane+ integration, now you're asking them to bring some old parts back because the new parts look bad or are not as versatile? And people are even threatening to boycott the game because of control surfaces? Control surfaces, guys! I understand you may be upset because some of your craft doesn't work anymore or looks weird, but going as far as a boycott is a bit ridiculous!

Did someone threaten to boycott the game? I suppose I missed it, the thread is moving very fast. That would be ridiculous.

If anything, squad has said that anything and everything in the game is subject to change. So if squad wants to change the plane parts, they'll do it. I'm sure squad will hear your voices and make adjustments, but for now we'll all have to deal with this, whether you like it or not.

Or, if you still can't deal with it, there are plenty of ways to get the parts back in the game.

Of course, but if we don't tell them what we want, how would they know? We want those parts back, this thread is telling them that.

[Yellowburn10]

Incorrect. When you see everything in black and white, you limit the options. We like the new parts, but we also like the old parts and feel that both have their uses and there was realistically no reason to remove them.

Of course, but if we don't tell them what we want, how would they know? We want those parts back, this thread is telling them that.

First part: I can understand that, and I was even surprised myself that squad did get rid of the old parts this fast.

Second part: I'm not saying you shouldn't tell them, I'm just saying that it seems a lot of people here aren't even giving the new parts a chance. I know you and others have started redesigning your old ships to 0.25, but a couple redesigned ships won't do the parts much justice.

The point I wanted to make is that spaceplane plus has started a new generation of stock planes (pretty obvious), and we should accept that, but I see most of you already have for the most part. Like I said, I have no doubt that squad will hear what you're saying and adjust accordingly. But for now, and this is directed towards everyone, try to have fun and experiment with the parts if you haven't yet.

[WooDzor]

First part: I can understand that, and I was even surprised myself that squad did get rid of the old parts this fast.

Second part: I'm not saying you shouldn't tell them, I'm just saying that it seems a lot of people here aren't even giving the new parts a chance. I know you and others have started redesigning your old ships to 0.25, but a couple redesigned ships won't do the parts much justice.

The point I wanted to make is that spaceplane plus has started a new generation of stock planes (pretty obvious), and we should accept that, but I see most of you already have for the most part. Like I said, I have no doubt that squad will hear what you're saying and adjust accordingly. But for now, and this is directed towards everyone, try to have fun and experiment with the parts if you haven't yet.

We're not dismissing the new parts, we will find beautiful and surprising applications for those soon enough. We are arguing against the removal of the old parts.

[andrew123]

The issue is: the new parts don't fill in the some of the more specialized roles of the old parts. I just want the option of having the old parts back set in stone, but I'm willing to adapt my craft and rebuild them with the new parts.

[VirtualCLD]

Mate, just take a look and you will see that the new small alieron is bigger and thicker than it's replacement.

Okay, thank you for that information. I will have to look at that again when I get home. It seemed like the black edges created the illusion that the parts are thicker when they really aren't, but obviously I could be mistaken.

[Majorjim!]

Okay, thank you for that information. I will have to look at that again when I get home. It seemed like the black edges created the illusion that the parts are thicker when they really aren't, but obviously I could be mistaken.

The new wing and aileron parts are much thicker than the old ones. And the little aileron is bigger making it kinda useless for small builds.

Damn you Squad the old aileron was awesome! I had so many ideas and craft in progress that used that part inventively.

Who remembers this?:

How much better does this look with the old part:

OLD

NEW

Edited October 8, 2014 by Majorjim

[r4pt0r]

being completely honest, I like the black stripes on your new truck thing. Resembles this concept design sort of now

But whats inside the main body of that beast?

[Majorjim!]

being completely honest, I like the black stripes on your new truck thing. Resembles this concept design sort of now

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/6a00d8341bf67c53ef01310f42be9c970c-300wi.jpg

But whats inside the main body of that beast?

Its an SPR Mars rover replica. And the larger panels make it not as round, not as spacious inside and not as visually pleasing.

Inside are two seats:

WOW nearly five and half thousand views in less than a day!

People feel strongly about this. Good!

Edited October 8, 2014 by Majorjim

[Boomerang]

Just to toss my own opinion out there, I'm fine with this change. I'd deleted the original parts that SP+ made redundant in previous versions and I'm glad that I don't need to do that now.