Do .PNG Textures Support Mip-Mapping?

[Beale]

The title says it all.

Basically with 0.25's in-compatibility with .TGA textures, I was torn between using .MBMs (Which will make my mod 4 times as big, download wise) or .PNGs.

I've exported a few textures, but it's difficult to tell, so far.

I'd hate to get half-way through converting my textures to .PNG only to find the parts surfaces look like television static from far away.

Edit: I have found this thread, but I'm not sure if it's up to date.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Beale

[sarbian]

TGA broken ? how so ?

[Beale]

TGA broken ? how so ?

Hi!

In 0.25, TGAs suffer from a few problems, as far as I understand:

• Failing to load at all ( I have experienced this first-hand )
  
• Taking up more memory than they should.
  

It really is a huge shame as in my opinion they were the best texture format to use.

I have no idea if this is going to be fixed, so I'm really stuck with my 100% TGA using mod being broken.

[sarbian]

I meant where did you get that info ? I've not seen anything on that.

[Beale]

I meant where did you get that info ? I've not seen anything on that.

My own thread here and first hand experience .

[Nertea]

So the tga loader is still broken?

Time for a re-export party!

[nli2work]

I've seen TGA not loading or not being visible to the compiler as well. the same part that worked on one session might break the next session because of missing texture. It seems to happen more with MODEL{}, and have full copies of texture in the folder with MU and in another folder referenced by the MODEL{}. Replacing the textures in the MU folder with dummies seems to fix it.

[Beale]

I've seen TGA not loading or not being visible to the compiler as well. the same part that worked on one session might break the next session because of missing texture. It seems to happen more with MODEL{}, and have full copies of texture in the folder with MU and in another folder referenced by the MODEL{}. Replacing the textures in the MU folder with dummies seems to fix it.

Sorry I don't quite understand. Are you saying there is a solution to this?

I'm not currently using MODEL{} to a great extent and am still having missing textures.

Also, about .PNGs and Mip-Maps?

Thanks

Edited October 8, 2014 by Beale

[nli2work]

Sorry I don't quite understand. Are you saying there is a solution to this?

I'm not currently using MODEL{} to a great extent and am still having missing textures.

Thanks

I don't know if there's a solution. all my parts use MODEL{}. if I have copy of texture in the same place as MU file, as if I am not using MODEL{}, AND have another copy at a centralized location, TGA loading seems less reliable than if I just have 1x1 place holder textures in the MU folder and full texture at the centralized location. Will have to test more to see how much more reliable or if still problematic. Might have to switch to PNGs.

[NathanKell]

The loader has two relevant bugs:

1. TGA files are not compressed to DXT (hence take up 4x to 6x more memory than they should)

2. Some PNG files do not get mipmaps generated (some do? Confusing).

Both bugs are fixed by Active Texture Management, and the Basic version does not scale texture size and therefore leaves quality unaffected.

[Beale]

The loader has two relevant bugs:

1. TGA files are not compressed to DXT (hence take up 4x to 6x more memory than they should)

2. Some PNG files do not get mipmaps generated (some do? Confusing).

Both bugs are fixed by Active Texture Management, and the Basic version does not scale texture size and therefore leaves quality unaffected.

Thanks for the info.

Interesting on the PNG side (a little strange as well), I guess I'll stick to MBMs for safety.

[nli2work]

1. TGA files are not compressed to DXT (hence take up 4x to 6x more memory than they should)

this was since 0.25? or old news? Seems like a rather serious issue. is something Squad can fix or is it a Unity problem?

[CaptainKipard]

For the sake of clarity:

Right now the lesser of all evils is to use MBM?

[NathanKell]

That has been true at least since .22 or so, and probably since the TGA loader was written.

Cpt. Kipard: Or just ask everyone to use ATM; many people do already. MBM however is definitely the safest (and also avoids a *Unity* bug with png, where if you have enabled but unconnected network devices, loading the game may take 10+ minutes >.>) and has the least memory leaks too. However, it will confuse anyone who thinks that space on disk = space in memory, since MBM is an uncompressed format on disk. Just be aware, and correct people if they complain.

[hoojiwana]

The loader has two relevant bugs:

1. TGA files are not compressed to DXT (hence take up 4x to 6x more memory than they should)

2. Some PNG files do not get mipmaps generated (some do? Confusing).

Both bugs are fixed by Active Texture Management, and the Basic version does not scale texture size and therefore leaves quality unaffected.

Since 0.25 there's a new one that I've only seen with TGA textures, and that's the loader failing to create headers for them, and as such the texture fails to load. This is not unique to parts using MODEL{} since the failure is long before any parts get compiled.

For the sake of clarity:

Right now the lesser of all evils is to use MBM?

From what I've seen, yes. TGA has many issues, PNG can lack mipmapping and has the Unity loading time bug, but MBM has larger on disk space and can't be immediately modified without changing the filetype.

Edited October 8, 2014 by hoojiwana

[nli2work]

Thanks for clarifications hoojiwana and Nathankell; oh boy. like standing in the middle between a lion a hyena and a crocodile.

[Beale]

However, it will confuse anyone who thinks that space on disk = space in memory, since MBM is an uncompressed format on disk. Just be aware, and correct people if they complain.

This is my big worry, I mean my mod is going to jump to around 350MB, surely a turn off for some people.

Ah well, on reading the advice here (very helpful I might add, thanks guys ) I think MBMs are the safest bet.

[hoojiwana]

This is my big worry, I mean my mod is going to jump to around 350MB, surely a turn off for some people.

Ah well, on reading the advice here (very helpful I might add, thanks guys ) I think MBMs are the safest bet.

At least they compress down to roughly the same size in an archive that TGA does, so the file people will download isn't so bad.

[Beale]

At least they compress down to roughly the same size in an archive that TGA does, so the file people will download isn't so bad.

You know I hadn't thought of that, after a little testing it's only a small increase in archived size.

Thanks for the tip!