Anyone else not really care for the career stuff?

[spikeyhat09]

i actually really hate the whole science system for unlocking parts. its too grindy and tedious for me. i would much prefer something like a simple contract system where you can complete a specific objective and get a specific part/money reward. i doubt that will ever happen, but sandbox has been fun since day one anyway so im happy

[b0b3001]

I'm just thankful they kept a science mode. Before I heard about them keeping a science mode, I was shaking in my boots about the next update.

[Unabled]

...

Like the OP said, the Science points give you a reason to explore other planets, biomes. and whatnot. They should focus on that aspect of the game, they should make exploration more meaningful, improve it. They should make it a "Holy crap, look what I've found!!" kind of thing. Because in the end thats what Space and the game is about, "Exploration" And how can you do that if the game isn't giving you anything to explore? They should focus on the core game rather than Career mode.. A game should never leave something up for your imagination to make it "Fun"...

Well put! Now I have to say that imagination in this game is actually quite important too, but yes we shouldn't have to rely on it entirely. KSP as it stood when I first bought it already had my imagination running wild with possibilities for missions and places to go explore, I think the game should just focus on encouraging that imagination. Let the player decide where they want to go (maybe a mission designer?) and have the game/kerbal scientists suggest things they would like you to check out while you are there. Experiments to run, samples to collect. I don't know.

Science should be more about the exploration and less about unlocking parts.

KSP makes it possible for you to design and fly your own rockets to strange worlds, it should focus on going the rest of the way by letting you explore those worlds in a meaningful way as well.

[Jas1126]

I personally like career mode but I bump up the funds to 1000% because I don't like the new currency, but I do like a sense of progression and the contracts. If science mode had its own form of contracts then I'd play that.

[mynhier34]

I feel like the game mode system is nearly perfect for how long it has been around. Of course there is improvements that can be made, but it is awesome for what it is. You can play the game how you want. If you don't want to play career you don't have to. If you want to just gain science you can. If you want to make career harder or easier knock yourself out. It does slow updates but the game is in a really good place for players, and there are a ton of mods to boost your game play. There is not a lot of complaints anyone can have for squad giving what they do for us.

[xtoro]

I'm mostly a sandbox player. But I do enjoy the science career. I'm not too crazy about the full-blown science and funds career but I do also still play that.

I'd say that I feel like I accomplish more in science career because of unlocking things, but I have more fun in sandbox, and I'm able to challenge myself with whatever I want, no matter how ridiculous it is. The full-blown career is just too stressful at times and I don't call that fun. When I'm at home, not working, and relaxing, I want to relax. I don't want to play a stressful game...

[Tail_TL]

Well put! Now I have to say that imagination in this game is actually quite important too, but yes we shouldn't have to rely on it entirely. KSP as it stood when I first bought it already had my imagination running wild with possibilities for missions and places to go explore, I think the game should just focus on encouraging that imagination. Let the player decide where they want to go (maybe a mission designer?) and have the game/kerbal scientists suggest things they would like you to check out while you are there. Experiments to run, samples to collect. I don't know.

Science should be more about the exploration and less about unlocking parts.

KSP makes it possible for you to design and fly your own rockets to strange worlds, it should focus on going the rest of the way by letting you explore those worlds in a meaningful way as well.

Yeah, Since this game is so heavily relying on imagination, times like these where I have a mood where I don't feel like using my imagination, the game is boring for me. Even though I want to play it, but I just can't have fun for longer than 10 or so minutes without any imagination, like you said they should focus on encouraging that imagination.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tail_TL

[xiombargdei]

i got the game for 2 weeks but i've been playing 4X / space sims / strategy games for 3 decades.

I like the career mode as it gives me a progression with objectives and rewards.

I wish they would expand the career mode. It could look like a "campaign mode" in any RTS game.

I also wish they would allow an "arcade mode", with easy aeronautics rules, and a "pro mode" with destructive re-entry and so on.

[fat4eyes]

New guy here, just bought KSP a few days ago. Career mode is great for the new player experience since it basically acts like an extended tutorial, starting you off with a few simple parts and introducing new parts at a pace that allows you to get a hang of the parts you currently have while you work towards new ones.

As others mention, it also provides a progression, giving you goals in the early game (when you still dont know much) and by the end of it basically becomes the sandbox mode (albeit limited by funds). By then you know enough about the game to be able to set goals for yourself, and get mods to try to accomplish even more stuff.

The science system did feel a bit grindy at first, but once I figured out that putting a polar orbiter on each body in the Kerbin system gives me a constant stream of science and funds from contracts it became way easy.

I like the funds system too because it keeps the rocket designs sane. I've been looking at the spaceships in the spacecrafts exchange and a lot of the designs make my inner engineer cry. Throwing away liquid fuel rocket motors when an SRB will do the same thing at a fraction of the cost? Insanity. A quote about engineers come to mind: "An engineer is someone who can build with one dollar what any fool can build with two."

I've been downloading mods to try to extend the tech tree, but unfortunately Treeloader seems to be broken. Looking forward to when it is fixed so I can try out Interstellar in career mode.

[AustralianFries]

I've been play this game for a long, long time (Summer 2012). This is why I think I'm biased towards sandbox mode. Not sure if that makes sense, however I have never gotten into career mode because it feels too "grindy". I like the idea, and with the addition of contracts I may give it another try some time. That said, I'd much rather "simulate" my own space program. What I mean is start off with small projects (unmanned probes, simple single-seated rockets, etc.) and then get more complex as time goes on. If you followed my KAAST series of mission logs, you'd understand my play style (although that was last active over a year ago so, you know).

I already hear "so start off with unlimited resources and pretend that you can't build bigger". In a sense, that statement is accurate and I have no counterargument. The real issue for me, though, is the fact that there is too much repetition in early and mid-game missions. I feel like I'm doing the same thing over and over again with the crew report, EVA report, etc. All of that just to get a piece of science hardware and go to the same locations, collect data, and return.

People have suggested unlocking the tech tree via one or two missions (which is completely possible), but is there really any fun in that? I get the challenge aspect, and maybe the sense of accomplishment of completing a hard mission with a simplistic design, but regardless-. There needs to be a balance, where there is far less (or seemingly far less) grinding involved.

Surely you must be thinking, if you even read the whole thing which is highly unlikely that anyone did: "there is just no pleasing this guy". Maybe that's true, and maybe career mode just isn't for a old timey, good-ol-days player like myself. Hell, there's a high chance that I'm just playing wrong or something in my style that I could change and make everything better. All valid points, but as it stands right now, I just can't get into it.

To disclaim some things, I don't think career mode is bad at all. I think a lot of experienced players respect the challenge of having to start from scratch, to which I say good for them. I love this game, and to say the things I've said pains me. I find very little wrong in Kerbal Space Program, and I don't put career mode in that "wrong" category.

I'll be waiting for the lack of replies.

Edited October 20, 2014 by AustralianFries

[PwnedDuck]

It just isn't a development direction I'm a fan of. I'd far rather they made more stuff to do e.g. new parts and planets than making it possible to play in a way where you need to do less.

[sedativechunk]

Man, my topic is still cooking on here! I'm surprised at the amount of responses and views this topic has gotten. I guess I am not alone with the feelings towards the .25 contract updates.

I hope SQUAD recognizes this post now. I think I speak for everyone here that is a hardcore fan of this game to say that, although we don't mind this game getting the contract and "single player" style elements added to the game, we don't want it to be a substitute and delay for adding more fun, "space" related features, including but not limited to some additional planets/moons, more parts, and in general new elements to have fun space adventures in this game which is ultimately what this game is about. Yes, we got some space plan parts, but IMHO, they were disappointing. The cargo bay size sucks on the new space planes, and I still don't really have a good reason to build a space plane because the general lack of useful parts for an interplanetary mission.

Most of us don't play KSP just because we like building ridiculous contraptions just to satisfy some contract elements, we play this game because it is a fun space adventure game. I love this game because I love real space exploration, and in my life time the chances are that I probably will never see humans venture past Mars (although maybe I'm wrong I'm only 24 so maybe some day we will go to Jupiter and beyond). This game allows the imagination to run free and create scenarios for what a real adventure to these worlds would be like. Running contracts and ground test on Kerbin are boring and limit me to the adventures I can have in this game. I want more grand features and less of this contract stuff.

[Tail_TL]

I'll just say this. "Space means exploration". What is there to explore on giant colored spheres that are barren, uninteresting and you can't really do anything much on them? ... Wait, what is this game about, again?

I'll be waiting for the lack of replies.

But not lack of "Readers"

[GregA]

I am a newb I started one week ago. The contracts system was like pop quiz drilling to accelerate my learning of the parts list. If you came at the contracts system from a place of already knowing all the parts, and understanding how to build the various contraptions it wouldn't seem as useful.

Having played through career mode once, I wouldn't play through it again, and if I were to start over, I would just start over in Sandbox mode, as the only thing in my save game that remains relevant of career mode is funds, of which I have 10's of millions now.

In fact, I have kerbals stationed all over the place just to farm the funds the career system uses, and the contract system gives.

All they have to do now is add a need for air and food for kerbals, and the game has a reason to build a deep space network of bases and satellites. As it stands the game has little to no reason to ever revisit a planet or moon once you have a kerbal living on it.

Failing adding some content to the moons and planets there is no reason for rovers at all other than the fun of building and driving them...

[Farex]

I acutally really like the career mode. It makes progressing more interesting and at the same time it sets goals to reach. And after you have done everything, manage your funds and build a really big thing, a base on Duna, or Eeloo and make a Kerbal-Training-Camp on the Mun and such things

[Bobbydylan]

I love career mode. It's pretty much all I play.

[Axelord FTW]

Career mode's progression is nice.

Stock contract are pretty bland but we know FinePrint's is getting the S (stock) treatment.

In the meantime, the mod itself is top tier stuff that everyone should try (and then adopt). Seriously, if you have never tried it out, WHY?

[hansen]

To be honest, I don't like the career-idea. I played many of those build-up-your-business-from-scratch games and also buzz aldrins race into space, now I am really tired of this concept. Most of the games today incorporate this kind of level up and gain cash by restricting game mechanics and in return motivating players to unlock those "hidden" aspects of the game. for some players the leveling up gets the core mechanic itself which leads to a blending of playing and working (call it grinding). as a social scientist i am observing this development with sorrow. for me this breaks down to a incorporation of neoliberalist and capitalist ideology into videogames: what are people and kids taught with that? this is even further enhanced by capitalzing these concepts through microtransactions? (I am sure this won't happen with KSP).

I don't want to go deeper into that. Squad made its decision about the career mode. But I'd love to see a stronger focus on the sandbox part of the game: adding more possibilities to do things and explore stuff. Teach people and kids about real-world space exploration and scientific research. Map planets, take actual samples of soil and life forms and analyse them, measure radiation levels etc.; make the measuring of and interaction with the environment a core game mechanic that goes beyond the planting of flags and reading of text boxes without relevant information. I think this would improve the game a lot by giving a real sense of exploration and putting an educational aspect in the foreground.

[viktorserecros]

I'm not much for career right now. I completed it when it first came out, and it felt like an extended tutorial. It has gotten much better since then, but I feel that there is a certain polish missing to draw me out of sandbox.

The grinding nature that several earlier posters brought up does have merit. If you don't exploit the biomes near KSC, you find yourself doing simple missions just to gain a precious resource. I'm not one to be totally turned off by grinding, but it is a benefit of sandbox. It is a little annoying seeing the updates changing the nature of career so much as to render previous attempts moot. (Not to mention the toasting of my computer hard drive in between updates-that's a different post.) Grinding is a necessary evil, without it games run into issues of being too easy due to a lack of resource risk.

I know career has come a long, long ways from its initial release. The contracts system greatly improved the career mode. They added what I felt career mode desperately needed, a purpose. I little spit shine, gold sticky star for completing the mode, and a guarantee of not messing with the mode's mechanics is all that is needed, really, to pull me out of sandbox.

[Farex]

.... breaks down to a incorporation of neoliberalist and capitalist ideology into videogames....

I think it is less the capitalism that makes things in career mode more interesting. It is the restrictions. How far can you go with the limited resources you have? Unfortunately, one of the resources was named "funds" - but it is not the money that makes it interesting, it's the restrictions. At least for me

[hansen]

I think it is less the capitalism that makes things in career mode more interesting. It is the restrictions. How far can you go with the limited resources you have? Unfortunately, one of the resources was named "funds" - but it is not the money that makes it interesting, it's the restrictions. At least for me

From my perspective it boils down to efficiency in an economic nature. One of the central aspect then becomes how to get the most ressources out of the least possible amount of spending. This gets obvious when people debate about most cost-effective ways to gather science and funds, doing as many contracts as possible in one flight, grind as many biomes as possible in one mission etc. This principle, historically rooted in business simulation games and action role playing games, is one fundamental principle of many games today and always risks to cause a loss of creative, experimental and refreshing interaction with virtual worlds. Instead many games that are based heavily on this mechanic are famous for repetitive actions done by players because certain interactions are more profitable for gathering in-game-ressources (wether money, experience, skills or something similar)

In consequence, aspects of exploration and creativity take a backseat. Thats why I don't think it makes sense to incorporate the economic game mode in KSP because this game became popular as a physical sandbox and space exploration simulator encouraging people to experiment and try different approaches. At least for me and the people I know who play KSP its these aspects that make ksp fun, to just build stuff, let it fly and look what happens. Or build stuff that doesn't even fly but is funny in its regard, like a techno club on the mun. Take a look at the most-viewed youtube videos. Things like this are only possibile without restrictions and punishment and streamlining the things ingame along economic/scientific/reputational productivity.

Luckily there is sandbox-mode, but how I said, I think squad should not waste time and effort in expanding career mode.

Edited October 22, 2014 by hansen

[johnnyhandsome]

I've played Career twice. It was helpful to force me to think about how to design rockets, but the Contracts are simply uninteresting at this point. Hopefully they'll get polished later.

Kinda surprised there isn't a series of contracts for the Gemini, Apollo, Soyuz, Saylut or Skylab missions as they were excellent test beds which grew mankind's knowledge of how to operate in space.

[-RanZ-]

I am more of a sandbox person to be honost, I like to build out huge projects and not have to worry about costs and stuff. That being said, I just started a new career with .25, since it is more mature and thought out I figured I would give it a go. It is kind of fun on hard mode, really makes you think your designs through to be more efficient because you have funds and reputation to worry about.

[Dreamixpl]

I will just say carreer is sandbox with funds. Squad should focus first on sandbox (planets, making biomes different, clouds, aerodynamics etc.) and then they should make that carrer.

[HarvesteR]

I will just say carreer is sandbox with funds. Squad should focus first on sandbox (planets, making biomes different, clouds, aerodynamics etc.) and then they should make that carrer.

Just a quick reminder here, that the state of Career Mode by the time we enter Beta will be roughly the same, in terms of completion, than the current state of Sandbox. Sandbox just happened to reach that state first, but both are going to be equally incomplete.

Scope Complete != Feature Complete.

Also, see here for my opinion on threads like these.

Cheers