.25 x64 "unstable" thread?

[CatastrophicFailure]

Just because they are not made to be compatible for the 64bit version, doesn't mean they are specificly designed NOT to be compatible

Since .25 came out, more and more modders are not only not supporting x64, they are deliberately disabling their own mods so as not to have to deal with the BS.

It is worth noting that no mods lock themselves on Linux x64, and to my knowledge none are incompatible with it either.

Sigh... You win world. This Linux you speak of, how do I conjure it?

[Cerebrate]

I'd love to see if we could get some statistical data together on what hardware configurations people are using, because it's not that I doubt y'all are having that frequent crashes, it's just that it makes my heavily-modded three-to-five-hours-with-no-crash uptimes on Windows x64 look so anomalous - in a way that would usually suggest some aggravating underlying incompatibility or trigger. (I mean, I'm good, but I'm not _that_ good, y'know?) Not as if my hardware's anything particularly out of the ordinary, either, and by that I mean the ordinary for regular workin' desktops (Dell All-in-One, i3-3220 @ 3.3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB hard drive, generic Intel HD graphics), not gaming machines.

-c

[juanml82]

I'd love to see if we could get some statistical data together on what hardware configurations people are using, because it's not that I doubt y'all are having that frequent crashes, it's just that it makes my heavily-modded three-to-five-hours-with-no-crash uptimes on Windows x64 look so anomalous - in a way that would usually suggest some aggravating underlying incompatibility or trigger. (I mean, I'm good, but I'm not _that_ good, y'know?) Not as if my hardware's anything particularly out of the ordinary, either, and by that I mean the ordinary for regular workin' desktops (Dell All-in-One, i3-3220 @ 3.3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB hard drive, generic Intel HD graphics), not gaming machines.

-c

I have an i5-3570K, an Nvidia GTX 460, a Gigabyte Ga-Z77-D3H mobo (or D3HL, or something like that), 8 GB RAM and I'm running KSP from a Samsung SSD. My game isn't running above 4GB of ram though, but I'm still running 64 bits just in case. As for the right click issue, the science library mod has a hidden option to put a "deploy" button in the monitor window so you can run experiments from there as well.

[Sirrobert]

Since .25 came out, more and more modders are not only not supporting x64, they are deliberately disabling their own mods so as not to have to deal with the BS.

Well I've been against SQUAD releasing 64 bit in the first place, and now modders have aperently joined me than.

I have no doubt though, that the second 64 bit is delcared stable, the modders will jump on it and do whatever it takes to make it work

[theend3r]

Except for the fact that the game loads for at least 3 minutes (the game directory is over 3GB ) it runs fine for me.

[NathanKell]

Pleas see this thread -- it clears some things up, and (Cerebrate et al) also has a way you can help.

[NoMrBond]

*Mods that lock themselves on KSP Windows x64, due to KSP Windows x64 being broken and us not wanting to cause (or be thought to cause) issues, and us not wanting to release for a platform we literally cannot test on because it crashes too much.

I have little problem with the no-support clause on TAC-LS or sarbian's Nyancat warning but I don't agree with the lockout.

I can understand why the authors felt it was necessary though, and it is absolutely their choice to do so.

A lot of people don't follow bug reporting practices, search for solutions before throwing blame, and harass authors with misattribution even when used in unsupported cases and it'd grind you down as well as suck up a lot of time.

I'm not sure getting complaints from 100% of x64 users is better than getting complaints from some x64 users (even after the warnings) though?

[Motokid600]

I've had ZERO problems with x64 until recently when trying a WIP mod. Other then that... x64 is stable. I can play for four hours before it crashes on a scene transition. And thats fine. Your progress is saved if your going to and from the space center.

Here's the thing.. x64 crashes during scene transitions. X86 crashes during scene transitions AND active gameplay!.. now THAT sucks. So to hear some major mods are locking out x64 is ashame. And the fact that I'm going to have to once again play the "Mod trimming game" really gets me down. I mean we're talking HOURS trimming and troubleshooting mods just to GET PAST THE LOAD SCREEN. x64 just ate up everything I threw at it...Its ashame. It truly is.

I don't blame modders... No.. I blame the people who don't take the time to investigate and troubleshoot. "Your mod crashed my game FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT!!" ... ugh... Honestly, wtf? I mean if it's that bad to where modders had to lock out x64 because of this then.. idk.... Just ruins it for everyone.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Motokid600

[smart013]

I am sure once ATM is fixed the combination 32bit + ATM (+ optional opengl) will cover the most installs with lots of mods and the same performace as 64bit. Imho right now its the best what we have till squad makes progress with 64bit and the modders can return to 64bit without the risk to get insane over all the "ma ksp dunn work!" feedback day after day.

[theend3r]

I have little problem with the no-support clause on TAC-LS or sarbian's Nyancat warning but I don't agree with the lockout.

I can understand why the authors felt it was necessary though, and it is absolutely their choice to do so.

A lot of people don't follow bug reporting practices, search for solutions before throwing blame, and harass authors with misattribution even when used in unsupported cases and it'd grind you down as well as suck up a lot of time.

I'm not sure getting complaints from 100% of x64 users is better than getting complaints from some x64 users (even after the warnings) though?

I play exclusively x64 and I won't complain so 99% at most . Modders can do whatever they want with their works and I'm grateful they do all this work for free.

Edited October 10, 2014 by theend3r

[Cydonian Monk]

I'll say this - 64-bit Unity for Windows won't even load on my i7-3520M, and the issues aren't limited to just KSP.

On a related subject (incompatibility), it's been mentioned to me that at least one mod is deliberately disabling itself on 32-bit OS-X (which is all we have) due to Unity incompatibility issues. We're on a different version of Unity to account for the mouse bugs, so I'm not really surprised. Does anybody know specifically what's broken or what features are missing (vs Unity version used in Win/Linux)? Or have a link to point me to? Thanks.

(I've not seen this personally, because it's been a busy week and I've only barely been able to get KSP set up. I'd just like to know what to look out for.)

[NathanKell]

Could you name the mod? I have yet to hear of one. You will get *warnings* about that, but I have not heard of a mod that disables on OSX, just wrong KSP version number or KSP Winx64.

[Cydonian Monk]

RealChutes. I was trying to not point fingers, given that a) I haven't tested it myself or had a chance to look at the code, don't use the mod in question, and c) stupid_chris has had enough pointed their way already. I tried to skim through the last couple days on the RC thread, but came up empty. And the mod forums are a bit noisy at the moment with all the 0.25 updates.

It's entirely possible it was only a warning and not a disabling, but either way I'm curious if there's a specific issue that's known to be causing a problem or if it just stems from an abundance of caution.

Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Cydonian Monk

[NathanKell]

RealChute doesn't disable itself on OSX. It only disables on version not 25, or version 25 and KSP Windows x64. What it does do is warn that it may not be compatible with a different version of Unity, which seems quite sensible since Chris isn't on a Mac to have that version of Unity, didn't compile for that version of Unity, and who knows what might break. This is only a problem because this time, Squad released KSP using a different version of Unity on the Mac than on other platforms; if we're lucky, no mods will break, but we don't know.

[Cydonian Monk]

This is only a problem because this time, Squad released KSP using a different version of Unity on the Mac than on other platforms; if we're lucky, no mods will break, but we don't know.

OK, that's what I suspected. Thanks.

[Nuke]

i havent downloaded the new build yet, because im one package away from a new pc build. but i think im going back to 32 bit for awhile when i do. 64 bit was a huge impediment to my game last time and i couldn't get my usual suite of mods to work when i was done with stock. i dont think modders should actively break compatibility by compiling 32 only dlls (the default is usually both), but i can accept the no support policy. 64 bit is really only out for squad to get community feedback on bugs and such. if you are an active participant in bug reporting, you might want to run 64 bit to help improve that build. otherwise it will just get in your way and irritate you.

[Voidryder]

First, I haven't played a pure stock game since 17. Mods are what keeps me playing. Second, been playing 64-bit since the player hack. Third, I completely get why some of the modders have complied their codes to lock-out 64-bit. Imagine getting phone calls in the middle of the night asking for Gus. You keep saying Gus doesn't live here, but the phone keeps ring. You're gonna unplug that phone (or hunt down Gus and find out why he keeps giving out your number.) So some modders are unplugging their phones. Their choice. I understand it and respect it.

Here's hoping the community effort on reddit, helps Squad eventually produce a stable 64-bit for Win. Now if you'll excuse me, my phone is ringing. I'm betting it's Gus.

[Supergamervictor]

My first 10 minutes in .25 x64 was a crash and x64bit never opened ever again.This occurred to me with my .24bit x64bit mod install which fails to even start now.

[Voidryder]

Hi Victor,

Since you're one of the brave souls attempting to run 64-bit in 25, have you thought about posting on this site: http://www.reddit.com/r/KSPBugStomping

It's a community effort to help Squad debug Win 64. It will tell you exactly what info you need to provide in order to help. Just a suggestion.

Fly Straight and True

[Ar_Taq]

Alright, I generally don't like posting stuff until I have more solid answers, but this is what I've come up with in trying to make Win 64-bit KSP work like it did in the .23.5 64-bit hack:

1. There is a problem with Unity and KSP. It is not necessarily Unity or KSP. Between the .23.5 update and .24 update, they recompiled KSP to the Unity 4.5.2 Engine. That was not one of the "accepted" engines for the Win 64-bit hack. I know my system only accepted the 64-bit hack with Unity 4.3.3 or 4.5.3 (that was the newest at the time). Unity 4.5.2 worked fine for Linux, while Unity 4.3.3 and 4.5.3 did not, if my memory serves me at all (I am getting old).

2. When SQUAD recompiled and made 64-bit an option, they made it so we couldn't hack it like we had before. This isn't a problem for them, per se. SQUAD wants to focus on their plan of action, which they should do, to complete the game. They added it in, begrudgingly, because the community hack was so successful at the time. They didn't do widespread testing for Unity compatibility, and they shouldn't have as it wasn't in their plan to do from the start.

3. While I am sure the community can come up with some answers given enough time, I think our energy would be better served elsewhere as it would take a recompiling of KSP to an updated Unity engine. I'm sure this already planned by SQUAD, once Unity 5 is released AND all the early major and minor bugs are sorted and squashed.

4. Find a way to repeat the 64-bit hack, you can probably fix the Win 64-bit problems. It goes too deep into the Unity coding for me to do and I'd rather just play the game.

So, I'm in support of trying to help SQUAD out. But do so carefully. If you get in there and play around with the coding like that, you could find yourself in breach of your EULA that you accept with the installation of the game that no one seems to read. The 64-bit hack was in violation of this, and it could be argued that it violated copyright law. I'm not going to getting into the semantics of that, as SQUAD hasn't displayed any intent on acting against it's community for violations, though that could change if it was used for profit (a gain of any kind, not just monetary) or as a sleight (the opposite of a profit) against them. Have fun, play the game, don't think that SQUAD owes you anything, and if that having fun is finding bugs and squashing them, make sure you share your results with SQUAD first.

[Voidryder]

For clarification the reddit link I posted is actually from Rows' post here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/96320-A-Friendly-Reminder-about-64-bit-Mod-Compatibility-in-Windows

Squad is aware of the community effort and is saying lend a hand if you can. But like Ar_Taq says, be sure and tell them first via the reddit link.

[Madrias]

I'm flying strong in KSP .25 x64. So far, I haven't noticed any oddities other than the right-click mishap, but I will wholeheartedly admit my desktop is far from normal. As for the memory-induced crash, yeah, it happens. I'd crash a heck of a lot faster on x86 mode, though. You can't pull 3GB and get away with it.

I've had two crashes on .25, but again, I'm willing to accept the crashes, move on, and relaunch the game. I've played far, far buggier games than x64 KSP.

[Spartan-S63]

From my experiences with KSP x64, it has a lot to do with graphics drivers. I remember updating my Nvidia drivers to a beta driver and it would crash a lot, but when I upgraded to the latest WHQL release, KSP x64 becomes stable again.

[Jr6150x]

Am I the only one havin barely any problems with 64x? I've only crashed once or twice and it's running smoothly. All vanilla.

[Starman4308]

I'm using allot of mods... even B9 aerospace in 64bit in 25. and it almost never crashes... it is playable.. Just have some of the right clicking problems but i can live with it... using some mods that makes me to not need to transfer by right clicking on tanks like ship manifest and a mod that open science modules by clicking in the toolbar like science allert... so yes the only unstable thing for me is right clicking...

Sorry for bad english...

Please do not post in old, dead threads unless you have something specific and significant to contribute.

Another "well, it works for me" post does not help anything. Everybody knows Windows x64 works for some people, but because it works for some people does not mean that x64 is in general stable, or that modders will stop disabling their mods for x64. To once again restate what has been stated a million times: x64 is unstable for enough players to warrant an "unstable" tag, some of those players send modders bogus bug reports which boil down to x64 being unstable*, x64's instability is due to some issue in the Windows distribution of Unity 64-bit, and there will basically be no fix until the release of a Unity version which fixes the 64-bit instability.

*In an ideal world, people would realize their issue stemmed from x64 being unstable, but that hasn't stopped people from complaining to modders about crashes which have nothing to do with the mod.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Starman4308