How can I get more early-stage science?

[Coga19000]

I am currentyl playing Science Mode, and after some flights, I find it quite difficult to generate enough Science. Performing a Report on anything even once seems to deplete most science out of it, to the point that trying to perform it a second time seems counterproductive regarding the remains of science not yet drained. When it comes to biome research, it literally only works once before said biome becomes useless. I do think that actively trying to find more biomes will give me a boost, but the Science needed to conduct research on Mun seems more than what I can get from Kerbin. And suggestions?

(I'm sorry in advance if said question makes me look like a complete newbie.)

Edited October 12, 2014 by Coga19000

[r_rolo1]

The surface science from Kerbin is pretty small compared with what you can get from low and high Kerbin orbit. Just try a suborbital hop, then a LKO then a high orbit ... then a munar flyby ...

[Coga19000]

Yeah, ut I just cannot sem to understand low LKO and HKO science is supposed to work. I sem to be in the wrong altitude to get a "LKO over biome" research, and instead get a plain "LKO" research that currently gives menothing. Same goe for HKO> And I told you already that the current tech level of mine does most likely not allow me to reach the Mun.

[technicalfool]

Firstly, you can unlock a couple of the first nodes just by putting a single one-man pod on the launch pad. Crew report, EVA report while "flying" (in other words, clinging onto the pod), EVA report while landed (let go of the pod), surface sample from launch pad. Then roll off the launch pad and do the same for the "KSC" biome around the launch pad. It's cheesy, but that can unlock enough science for an orbiter without any of the more ridiculous tactics such as explosive stage separation.

Once you can get into orbit, fling yourself into a polar orbit. Head more or less North or South rather than East, and your craft will eventually fly over every biome on Kerbin. EVA report from each biome you fly over.

Another suggestion would be to get a screenshot of your current tech tree. Upload it to imgur, photobucket or anywhere else online where you can link to the image, and link it here. There may be some people here who can suggest Münar or Minmus-capable rockets from the parts you have.

Lastly, crew reports will only give you a single LKO or high above kerbin biome. EVA reports on the other hand, will see the individual ground biomes so long as you are in a low orbit. It's a bit of a fiddle, but you just have to keep getting out of the craft and checking.

Edited October 10, 2014 by technicalfool
Crew reports vs EVA

[Pecan]

...And I told you already that the current tech level of mine does most likely not allow me to reach the Mun.

WHAT?! You have a T30 engine (start technology). Presumably you have a decoupler (tech 1) and, hopefully, a radial decoupler (tech 2). Mun and Minmus are yours for the taking ;-0

[Coga19000]

I currently have up to General Rocketry, Electrics and Stability.

The polar Orbit sounds like a brilliant idea, though. Why travel by yourself over the entire globe when the globe can rotate for you?

[Coga19000]

WHAT?! You have a T30 engine (start technology). Presumably you have a decoupler (tech 1) and, hopefully, a radial decoupler (tech 2). Mun and Minmus are yours for the taking ;-0

Yeah, but only if I use Asparagus staging. I try to keep things realistic enough, and most probably I'll download Ferram Aerospace soon enough.

[capi3101]

I'ma going to point you to the first three posts of this tutorial on mission planning and ship design for Science!. It's a couple of versions old now but still a 100% valid way of doing things, and it's pretty damn effective. It's the way I generally go about doing things, anyways.

Technicalfool's given you sound advice for starting from scratch - things that will get you that first few bits of science you need to get the bigger crap. Beeline for Science Juniors at Science Tech (go for Survivability after Basic Rocketry - 65 science points total) and you should be in a spot where you can start building the sci packs Geschosskopf describes. A good "next step" is General Rocketry and the LV-T45 engine (which makes steering the boosters a hell of a lot easier).

To get LKO - you have to actually be in orbit, with the periapsis above 70,000 meters; anything less than that and you're "flying" - which is still another place you can do science although the rewards aren't as great as orbit. The wiki says 250,000 for HKO; my experience suggests that it's more in the vicinity of 400,000 meters. I could be wrong about that, though...start with the 250,000 and see what that gets you.

[r_rolo1]

HKO AFAIK is 300 km ... and that can be done easily with T-30 and decouplers ( with a ocasional RT-10 )

[Kar]

Besides all the good answers here and the excellent tutorial capi3101 point out, when you feel confortable with the current rocket technology you unlocked start go for the science unlocks, that way, when you start to go to the mun or Minmus the extra science parts will increase your gain a lot.

[goldenpsp]

Yeah, but only if I use Asparagus staging. I try to keep things realistic enough, and most probably I'll download Ferram Aerospace soon enough.

Not really. With very little tech (and no asparagus needed) you can get a very simple ship to Minmus and gather tons of science. I like minmus better for a first trip as it needs far less dV to hop around a few biomes. Just gathering EVA soil samples and crew reports I came back with over 1000 science.

[SRV Ron]

Not really. With very little tech (and no asparagus needed) you can get a very simple ship to Minmus and gather tons of science. I like minmus better for a first trip as it needs far less dV to hop around a few biomes. Just gathering EVA soil samples and crew reports I came back with over 1000 science.

With even less, you can do an orbit of Mun and Minmus and gather enough science in order to unlock the tech for a lander.

[Pecan]

Yeah, but only if I use Asparagus staging...

Not necessary at all, especially with FAR.

[goldenpsp]

With even less, you can do an orbit of Mun and Minmus and gather enough science in order to unlock the tech for a lander.

http://i.imgur.com/zUCLXGU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cfd0Euk.jpg

not sure what you mean by less. I landed on Mingus before I had those big booster rockets. But either way gathering science isn't that hard

[Taki117]

another option .25 is out, is that each building (including the flag pole) is it's own separate biome. go to them all and you get a hefty amount of science.

[UmbralRaptor]

And I told you already that the current tech level of mine does most likely not allow me to reach the Mun.

It's possible to achieve a Mun landing with nothing unlocked. It becomes surprisingly easy if you've managed to scrape together 20 science and unlocked Basic Rocketry and Survival.

This is what I used in a previous career mode. It's not the most efficient approach, but it's quite capable of landing on the Mun or Minmus and returning safely.

For the nearterm, what techs are you focusing on? The science ones tend to pay for themselves.

Edited October 11, 2014 by UmbralRaptor

[Wanderfound]

Thrust and fuel limited RT-10, probe core, materials bay, goo pods, parachutes. Fire off a dozen in different directions from KSC.

[Pecan]

It's possible to achieve a Mun landing with nothing unlocked. It becomes surprisingly easy if you've managed to scrape together 20 science and unlocked Basic Rocketry and Survival...

For the nearterm, what techs are you focusing on? The science ones tend to pay for themselves.

I stayed up late last night/this morning to design a low-tech Mun return lander that I could post today.

Ninja'd like mad!

Mine's almost exactly the same of yours, but had fewer T30 launch tanks and an additional 909 transfer stage.

[severedsolo]

another option .25 is out, is that each building (including the flag pole) is it's own separate biome. go to them all and you get a hefty amount of science.

This... at default settings, a crew report at the pad, and then surface samples and eva reports from each building (and the generic KSC biome) I took home 82 science without ever leaving the ground.

[KSK]

You can get a lot of science from a combination of biome hopping around KSC and completing contracts, especially if you *don't* go for all-out altitude records and stretch out the initial set contracts a bit. The trick is to revisit each biome with your latest and greatest equipment, whether that be Goo canisters, a Science Jr, or good old fashioned kerbal eyeballs and hands (samples and EVA reports).

As an illustration, in my last 0.24 career mode (stock), I decided to go with a probe heavy game - which included launching a satellite as my first orbital flight. If I remember correctly, it was only battery powered but for that you still need two level 4 techs (Flight Control and Science Tech) at 45 points apiece. Once I launched a satellite, launching a kerbal was trivial, which instantly gave me a large science boost, enough to fill out the rest of the early tech tree and put together decent Mun and Minmus capable craft.

Once you get to Minmus your science worries are over, especially if you focus on the bottom half of the tech tree first, and unlock a couple of science instruments to go with your Goo and Science Jrs.

Edit: this certainly wasn't the quickest way of getting early science, and may be a bit of a grind depending on personal preferences. For a speedy start, the low tech designs posted by other folks on this thread are a better bet - like I said, once you can get to Minmus, your science problems are effectively over.

Edited October 11, 2014 by KSK

[Starman4308]

Firstly, you can unlock a couple of the first nodes just by putting a single one-man pod on the launch pad. Crew report, EVA report while "flying" (in other words, clinging onto the pod), EVA report while landed (let go of the pod), surface sample from launch pad. Then roll off the launch pad and do the same for the "KSC" biome around the launch pad. It's cheesy, but that can unlock enough science for an orbiter without any of the more ridiculous tactics such as explosive stage separation.

Explosive stage separation is a perfectly valid tactic, why thank you very much. Doesn't take much to get a Munar flyby on starter tech. It's a tad difficult for people just starting the game, yes, but it doesn't take much to get the first decouplers (aforementioned KSC EVA report/surface sample cheese), and once you start staging, you can go anywhere.

I built a rocket using no technology from beyond the third level (Stability, General Rocketry, Survivability) which landed on the Mun and returned with 818 m/s dV remaining, even with a deliberately sloppy flight profile. The lander stage is a Mk. 1 command pod, Mk. 16 parachute, 4 goo canisters and 4 LT-1 landing struts on an FL-T400 fuel tank feeding an LV-909 engine. The stage below (separated by a stack decoupler) is 5 FL-T400s feeding an LV-T45 engine; this is surrounded radially by 3 identical liquid rockets and 3 Rockomax BACC SRBs. You fire off the radial stages at launch, decouple the SRBs first, then simultaneously decouple the 3 radial LV-T45s and fire off the central engine. The central stage should get you to the Mun and partway through the landing process, but you'll need to use the upper stage for Munar return. The sole issue I see is that the liquid stages are a bit heavy, so you need to have a slower gravity turn (stay pointed upwards longer, and turn eastwards more slowly as you fight your way through atmosphere).

[goldenpsp]

Explosive stage separation is a perfectly valid tactic, why thank you very much.

Touchy?

Nobody said explosive stage separation isn't "valid". Infinigliding is also "valid". But while they are valid, it is also good for you to recognize that some people feel they are a bit "cheaty". Both viewpoints are "valid"

[Starman4308]

Touchy?

Nobody said explosive stage separation isn't "valid". Infinigliding is also "valid". But while they are valid, it is also good for you to recognize that some people feel they are a bit "cheaty". Both viewpoints are "valid"

Relax. I meant it as a joke. Unlike infinigliding, though, I find directed explosive disassembly amusing.

[Pecan]

...I find directed explosive disassembly amusing.

Tutorial required! Get writing/filming ^^.

[LordFerret]

I just started all over again with 0.25, and right off the bat with only the starting stock parts, I collected plenty of science just around KSP alone. There's science on the launchpad, the runway, the flagpole, each of the buildings (I landed on each of them lol), the KSP grounds itself, the nearby beach and grasslands, and the mountains to the west. That alone will give you science enough to dive into your research tree and get moving up and out... I worked first towards obtaining more science experiments to work with - goo, materials, temperature, pressure. Think it out first, plan ahead.