Random destruction of wings

[Janos1986]

It also seems that it's the Type B wing that fails first.

[Merandix]

Ok, this is good...

I've got a save (see below for download) where I can consistently reproduce. I sincerely hope this still works after transfer.

I think I've got it down to the following criteria:

- Damaged launchpad

- Long duration flights with high time warp (other SOI's are NOT necessary apparently).

- If I don't timewarp, it doesn't happen.

- Only triangular wings seem to poof into nonexistence.

I haven't tested TOO thoroughly, since I don't really know what I'm looking for, but at least I managed to get it to reproduce when I want.

How to reproduce in the below save:

- Take either Munshot 1 or Munshot 2 from the SPH (I prefer the last one, since it has non-triangular wings as well, meaning there's possibility of safe landing, probably any other plane will do as well).

- take it up into space, last time I brought it up to 300 km... timewarped for 3 days, then landed. Usually happens when I go to the Mun (because timewarp obviously).

- Land at the runway... I've usually had wing poofage happen very near or even ON the runway.

- On one occasion I had a part of the VAB exploding, while the report did not state anything on it was hit.

I only have two mods installed, they shouldn't matter, but for the sake of completeness:

- RCS Build aid

- Intake Build aid

Download save -here- (download link will only stay valid for seven days!) I hope it'll trigger the bug on dev systems as well.

My setup:

Windows 8.1, 64 bit.

Running 32 bit KSP

i5-4670

MSI Radeon 7870

8 GB RAM

SSD present, but game runs off steam folder on disk drive.

If you want to know anything more, please do ask, because like many people, I could bloody well do without this bug

edit: fixing the launchpad doesn't seem to help.

edit2: Ok... slightly less amusing... It's also happening in my other saves... narrowly averted a crash in my careermode just after saving Jeb <.<

Edited January 26, 2015 by Merandix

[basic.syntax]

Saw it today, a short time after coming out of ~30 days of timewarp (in the tracking station.)

From tracking, I activated / jumped to a ship that was on 80k orbit of Kerbin to plot a maneuver, then used KAC icon on the maneuver node, to warp to that point.

I Don't think KAC has anything to do with bug, have seen problem w/o KAC installed.

(I was planning a long burn out of Kerbin, and made a fortunate backup of persistent save, a moment before I timewarped to the maneuver node.)

This excerpt from output_log shows just wings affected, 4 different types.

   1/26/2015 11:21:27 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Triggering Alarm - Warp to ManNode

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        1/26/2015 11:21:27 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Warp to ManNode-Halt Warp

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        1/26/2015 11:21:27 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Actioning Alarm

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        delta.small collided into Water Pipe - relative velocity: 2062.667 - no impact momentum (no RB)

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        delta.small Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.1

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [delta.small]: Deactivated

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [04:30:29]: Small Delta Wing collided into Launch Pad.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        1 explosions created.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        delta.small collided into Water Pipe - relative velocity: 2065.52 - no impact momentum (no RB)

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        delta.small Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.1

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [delta.small]: Deactivated

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        1 explosions created.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        deltaWing collided into Water Pipe - relative velocity: 2063.238 - no impact momentum (no RB)

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        deltaWing Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.1

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [deltaWing]: Deactivated

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [04:30:29]: Delta Wing collided into Launch Pad.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        deltaWing collided into Water Pipe - relative velocity: 2063.457 - no impact momentum (no RB)

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [Explosion] Combined.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        deltaWing Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.1

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [deltaWing]: Deactivated

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        1 explosions created.

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        sweptWing1 collided into Water Pipe - relative velocity: 2063.383 - no impact momentum (no RB)

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        sweptWing1 Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.1

        (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        [sweptWing1]: Deactivated

       (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
        dT is NaN! tA: 3.29984872043133, E: 0, M: 0, T: NaN

       (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)
       dT is NaN! tA: 6.20944452285767, E: 0, M: 0, T: NaN

[Torquemadus]

On this occasion, I reloaded five times and tried different approach angles. I eventually gave up after five quickloads and decided to just put the plane down with the remaining wing parts. Once again, Structural Wing Type B was the only part affected.

[vexx32]

Whereabouts was your reload point? Was it in orbit? In atmosphere? In another SOI?

[RaptorSST]

I had this unpleasant experience happen tonight, and I believe I have a quicksave that can reliable replicate it.

In my case on the lander portion of a duna ship I have Structural Wing Type A's attached to serve as attachment points for my landing gear. My mission plan was to send my main Duna ship on its way, then one orbit later send a tanker after it, to refuel the Duna ship for a possible Ike mission. I kept the Duna ship and the Tanker docked in LKO, where they had been for just over a year game-time. I couldn't remember why I had missed the last launch window, until my wing destructed and I realized I had had this experience with this ship before. This was shortly before the last update, so I just chalked it up to something that was being worked on, then forgot about it after migrating my save to .90 lol.

Anyway, with this ship in orbit, as the launch window for Duna approached I sent up a crew, and after loading them I switched to a higher orbitting ship so I could use faster warp to get up to the Duna injection node. After switching back to my Duna ship, poof go the wings, with some nice grey smoke briefly shrouding that section of the ship.

I'm running KSP .90, 32-bit version on Windows Vista.

I have the latest MechJeb installed, and I know the OP was running un-modded, but from reading about this error it doesn't sound like it originates from a mod.

Here are some screenshots showing the issue, and note that I wasn't even over the KSC when this happened:

Note the wing just above the Navball, that didn't self destruct, and the lonely empty area between tank and landing gear just above it

After this incident I reloaded an earlier quick save, then tried undocking the Duna ship from the tanker, then going to the higher ship to warp, this time a little closer to the node. I switched back to the Duna ship about 9 minutes before the node, and this time the wings didn't go poof immediately. So I made another quicksave and got the SAS system to orient my ship toward the node. At 8 minutes and 17 seconds before the node, one of the wings destroyed, again with angry grey smoke. Then at 8 minutes and 10 seconds, its neighbor explodes. I reloaded to see if it did this when the ship wasn't moving to point toward the node, but again this happened at 8m 17s and 8m 10s. It seems pretty reliable, so if anyone with better KSP knowledge wants to try it out, feel free: Self destructing ship.sfs

[Yukon0009]

It's a known bug, it's nothing to do with mods, last I checked,

[Majorjim!]

It's a known bug, it's nothing to do with mods, last I checked,

Yup Its know. If it will be fixed for 1.0 is another matter...

[vexx32]

Just to be sure... does this have a bug report on the official tracker? If it does not, it'd be a really good idea to make sure it does. And if it does, it's best if we can get together as much useful information as we can in that report.

[Torquemadus]

Whereabouts was your reload point? Was it in orbit? In atmosphere? In another SOI?

I was reloading back to a point in space in Kerbin's SOI. I was returning from a highly elliptical orbit and had saved prior to making a course correction burn to fine tune my re-entry.

I tried a number of re-entry profiles, some where I attempted direct entry, some where I aerocaptured into a circular orbit first before re-entering. In each case, I was fine in orbit and on aerobraking passes. I had no problems until I was on final approach to the runway. I tried different approach angles to see if they made any difference.

Reloading normally clears the problem, so I was surprised that I managed to get the same outcome five times in a row.

[basic.syntax]

Just to be sure... does this have a bug report on the official tracker? If it does not, it'd be a really good idea to make sure it does. And if it does, it's best if we can get together as much useful information as we can in that report.

Yes - here.

[RaptorSST]

Just a note that my save doesn't seem to be reliably replicating the bug now, it did that night, i tried a half dozen times, exited the game etc. The only difference is now it doesn't seem to since my computer has been turned off then back on.

Hopefully this will be fixed for 1.00, but in the meantime I just redesigned my lander If I eve figure out how to make spaceplanes though it should be interesting!

[Artimus]

@Claw I could provide you with a savegame (closing to KSC) where it ALWAYS happens, no matter what you do. Flying slowly towads KCS? Wings explode. Doing a turn to land in the green? Wings explode. Coming in low? Wings explode. Coming in high? Wings explode. Accellerate? Wings explode. No speciffic position at all. Additional info: It ONLY happened so far when I quicksaved while closing in to KCS (maybe ~50-80 km distance).

@Farex In my case there is no damage at KCS (at least this time).

[fireblade274]

I had this happen to me last night! Randomly exploding wings on final approach. Thank God I survived, here is the end pic:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/20nqw4mslzvbacv/2015-08-11_00001.jpg?dl=0

I also have my quicksave from me getting ready to bring er down. Here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0gx99pld7zx41u/quicksave.sfs?dl=0

If this helps here's my craft file to (Its a cargo ship meant to fly back to the runway and able to do jool missions) https://www.dropbox.com/s/fuflqbgujt50x88/SP333%20Fuel%201cr.craft?dl=0

The ship is used for cargo stuff and rescuing parts and kerbals from far away places, and then return to the KSC runway under its own power. I launched vertically it from the VAB, went to Gilly, got 2 rescue contracts done from Gilly, recovering a stray poodle engine and a stranded kerbal, the latter of which I had to reverse my orbit. After doing those, got back into Eve orbit, then set course for Kerbin, got a good encounter and landing opportunity on the first try and quicksaved so I could test how she could handle coming in hot; if that didn't work id do an aerobreak, or just use the copious amount of fuel I have left.

I took my perapsis down to 27k by burning retrograde and made it by the skin of my teeth, in regards to my wings almost being destroyed, but only lost my communication device (the second best one). Usually when I fly it in i need to load quicksave because of trying to control it too early when its going too fast, but I took it off "prograde" direction hold to "current" direction hold to level it out when going around 400m/s and engaged jet engines around 5km up. I attempted to pull up when going 180m/s and was able to level out. The ship will not handle well at altitudes higher then 3-4k because it cant get enough power below about 1.5k to accelerate. This is because I used only 4 wheezly engines so it could go really far at slow speeds and get the most out of the little fuel i have left when returning from Jool n' stuff. This time however I returned from Gilly/Eve and had a lot more fuel left then what I was expecting, so if you end up trying this save out note that you may want to burn some fuel to make flying easier; but if you follow pretty much how I did it i'm 83% sure you'll get broken wings.

So anyway; I leveled out my ship, ended up overshooting quite a few Km away from shore and the runway, so I got my bearings (which was harder then maneuvering) and began flying towards the center at about 98m/s, which is really pushing it for my massive ship but you can gain altitude when you need it as long as your going straight and your not above 2k. It kinda flies it's self. after about 15 min of flying west I get to the run way, and "activated" my "small" (but still pretty big) spaceship ailerons to pull up my nose maybe make things easier (it made it harder) and as i'm over the runway and just about to touch down some things randomly explode (see aforementioned picture). I lost a spaceship streak on the right side that had a little fuel in it, and i think about 2 wing pieces on the left, one of which had 1 of my XL solar panels. I over the runway now, coming in a little fast and panicked so I deployed emergency drough parachute to lighten the landing, and though I was right on the cusp of breaking something else, somehow everything stayed in tact on landing and only lost the mysterious exploding ones. And I did it all the first try with no load QS! Hurray! (dont try and turn aggressively if your under 500m, you'll lose altitude when you turn. and dont pull up too early and high up over the runway you'll stall and break something, but you need to pull up to kill speed, or break something lol. Use emergency drough parachutes! They save lives!)

So yea that's as descriptive I can be as to what happened. This is not the first time it has happened but I have a quicksave of the conditions for it to happen for now. If my save file helps anyone then that's fantastic! I would also like to say im very glad this bug does not destroy your save *cough glueKraken* and in the scheme of things I only lost $6k worth of parts and didnt crash my ship :cool:

Claw if you end of looking at this you'll notice its the same ship from the glue kraken debuging.. She lives! Through another bug!!

Edited August 12, 2015 by fireblade274

[Claw]

@Claw I could provide you with a savegame (closing to KSC) where it ALWAYS happens, no matter what you do.

I had this happen to me last night! Randomly exploding wings on final approach. ...

Claw if you end of looking at this you'll notice its the same ship from the glue kraken debuging.. She lives! Through another bug!!

The real trick is, does this persist when you've restarted KSP? Much like the bug, it has some generic reproduction but doesn't always happen consistently. I have encountered this bug a few times, and along with other reports, it seems generally tied to missions that travel further away and back to Kerbin. Although it has happened up in orbit too. And it's almost always a few specific type of wing pieces.

So yeah, help me figure this one out too.

Cheers,

-Claw

[luizopiloto]

first post was "14th October 2014, 16:57"

Today is 13Th August 2015... This bug have 1 Yr already... It's a shame...

- - - Updated - - -

Just to be sure... does this have a bug report on the official tracker? If it does not, it'd be a really good idea to make sure it does. And if it does, it's best if we can get together as much useful information as we can in that report.

Report here or on the tracker makes no difference... Squad won't fix game breaking Bugs... ¬¬"

[fireblade274]

Yes this bug sucks, but unless its killing everything you send up and/or back down its not really game breaking. Game breaking would be something that would corrupt your game save and make you have to start over *coughh GlueKraken*. Yea its been 1 year it seems that this has been going on, but in all likely-hood Squad is doing something about it behind the curtains. Then again, the Glue Kraken supposedly was in the makings for about a year and 1/2, until Claw saved the day and fixed it... It's not impossible your incorrect. I hope once Unity 5 comes out that most effort is applied to destroying 99% of bugs

[Artimus]

@Claw Good and bad news. The day the problem occured I closed the game, restarted KSP and tried again and it was reproducable. Now, 2 days later (I did not start KSP in the meantime) when I load the exact same save state, everything goes well. I got a copy of that corrupted game, but I fear it won't be of any use to you. Thus somehow restarting the PC is the only difference inbetween. o_O

Edit:

Nevertheless here is the full save folder of that career for you: http://www.pad-soft.de/savegame.zip

Just enter the tiny satellite on the launch pad and then press F9 to load the save state. You'll find yourself flying towards KSC from the seaside around the distance of the old airfield with low throttle.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Artimus

[Claw]

Now, 2 days later (I did not start KSP in the meantime) when I load the exact same save state, everything goes well.

Yeah, that's been the problem with this. Every so often, a few people will make progress with this bug, but eventually stop short of figuring out the triggers. And unfortunately it isn't persistent, which generally means it's a leak in how things are being handled. With something like this, it's extra difficult because it could be in unity or in KSP. This is a BUST worthy bug, if people are serious about tracking it down. This is another one of those bugs that would simply take too long for me to uncover completely by myself.

Cheers,

-Claw

[Mystrsyko]

So, apparently I have encountered this bug too. I had a spaceplane in a nearly circular 120km orbit for around 5.5 days (in timewarp in the tracking station view) and when I changed scenes to fly the plane the left wing exploded off during or immediately after the craft and physics loaded. I have a screenshot of the flight result screen shortly afterwards showing that it collided into the Launchpad somehow. http://imgur.com/gallery/1Wii804/

I can provide a craft file if necessary. Other info:

Windows 8.1, KSP version 1.0.4.861 Steam

Intel i5, 8gb ram, NVidia GT740 graphics card

[Mystrsyko]

Oops, double post

Edited August 17, 2015 by Mystrsyko
accidental double post

[Artimus]

@Claw As a professional software developer I totally understand your pain.

It already happened again. Deorbiting with slow timewarp until it stops automatically when hitting the atmosphere boundary. Aribreaking downwards. Again slight overshooting, but even before that a small wing part got destroyed. The rest of the parts got lost while already rolling along the runway. Nothing special in the flight.

Edit:

I wonder what it is with the heated parts within the cargo bay. Sometimes I see cargo bays wobbling around heavily, especially the round rocket ones... maybe they cause unseen high frequency wobbling?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Artimus

[basic.syntax]

It's sometimes necessary to add struts to brace parts in cargo bays, to keep them steady. Cargo bay heating problems: be watchful when attaching parts in cargo and the round service bays, that they are attaching to inner surfaces, and inner node attach points. Beyond that, IDK.

[Artimus]

@basic.syntax

All of that should be fulfilled. the only outside parts are things like RCS Thrusters - of course they heat up.

@Claw

Maybe some further info that came into my mind since the problem never occurred so far with the new Big-S Delta Wings: In all of my cases the destruction started with a "Structural Wing Type D" (marked in the image) - Maybe others can confirm that or similar observations?

The tiny wing dies first:

Almost the same plane, but different wing setup - no problems so far.

[Padishar]

It isn't always the type d but as far as I have seen it is always certain of the triangular wing parts that go. It may be helpful to compile a list.