[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[stali79]

6 hours ago, Spanksh said:

Okay so the latest prerelease just completely broke Firespitter, which makes it kinda difficult to update/add/modify all the fuel switches, but that can come later.

 

In regards to dds textures:

So by accident I just found out that (despite what I experienced when literally trying exactly this before, which is why I asked@stali79 to do it in the first place) meshes do actually detect dds textures even when they had png textures assigned. Afterwards I looked at the 1.7 meshes in blender and realized that most parts do in fact expect png, despite 1.7 exclusively using dds. So that's a thing apparently.

The fun part: They get applied mirrored, so I have to flip all textures vertically before converting. Again please don't ask me why, I have no freaking clue. I'm used to somewhat more predictable behavior from game engines.

So that's overall good news, since I can convert all the textures myself and simply complete the entire pack. So @stali79 in case you started converting, no need to do so and sorry for the trouble if you have. It's easier if I just finish it as is, instead of sending it back and forth, especially since I'm weeding out duplicate textures anyways and have to look at each part to make sure the cfg is working properly and all textures are there. So it's effectively no extra effort to do it all in one run.

Cheers, I have already converted most of the textures folder lol. I use the nvidia plugin for photoshop which has the option of flipping vertically when saving.  What I have done so far is synched on the github repo.

 

https://github.com/Moobien/OPT

 

EDIT: when I ran 1.8.5.1 directly in 1.2, I had no textures but when I copied the DDS ones back over I had textures again so that issue is resolved.

Edited September 24, 2016 by stali79

[Spanksh]

4 hours ago, M_Ouellette said:

I've been using DDS4KSP to convert PNGs to DDS, I do have Nvidea tools and plugins, etc. for when I'm actually creating or editing textures, but DDS4KSP does the job very effectively as a standalone app and it's handy for bulk conversions.

Well damn, so have I  Ah well.

I use gimp to convert to dds, since I already used that for Bethesda games. Works like a charm aswell.

 

And I'm almost done with the overhaul and fixes. I'm done with all parts except the majority of Juno. After that I'll have to rework the fuel. Most parts are missing fuel entirely and none of them have fallback fuel in case FS breaks (as it is now), so I'll have to add that as well.

Btw I also saw that you apparently can directly put the FS info inside the parts cfg. Does this actually still work and does it make any difference if you put it in OPT_FS.cfg or directly in the part and which would you prefer? If it actually works, I personally would prefer putting it directly in, but I'll go with your choice.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Spanksh

[stali79]

18 minutes ago, Spanksh said:

Well damn, so have I  Ah well.

I use gimp to convert to dds, since I already used that for Bethesda games. Works like a charm aswell.

 

And I'm almost done with the overhaul and fixes. I'm done with all parts except the majority of Juno. After that I'll have to rework the fuel. Most parts are missing fuel entirely and none of them have fallback fuel in case FS breaks (as it is now), so I'll have to add that as well.

Btw I also saw that you apparently can directly put the FS info inside the parts cfg. Does this actually still work and does it make any difference if you put it in OPT_FS.cfg or directly in the part and which would you prefer? If it actually works, I personally would prefer putting it directly in, but I'll go with your choice.

Actually they do have fallback fuel. in the MM patches folder you will find one called 'default resources' that is the fallback config for fuels. obviously in 1.2 there is no fuel as there is no module manager for it yet. having them in a dedicated patch makes making edits a little easier as you don't have to open a hundred files.

Edited September 25, 2016 by stali79

[Spanksh]

12 hours ago, stali79 said:

Actually they do have fallback fuel. in the MM patches folder you will find one called 'default resources' that is the fallback config for fuels. obviously in 1.2 there is no fuel as there is no module manager for it yet. having them in a dedicated patch makes making edits a little easier as you don't have to open a hundred files.

 

Well I mean fallback fuel as in part-internal. That works much more reliable since it doesn't require anything. (The number one rule I learned in my ~10 years of modding: Never ever depend on other mods unless absolutely necessary)

The latest Module Manager does mostly work in 1.2 but it doesn't provide the default fuel, so that's why i think internal ones would be better.

EDIT2: Well screw that. Turns out it doesn't quite work as I expected.

Well but you still have the FSfuelSwitch module in each part, so even if you had to edit something you would end up editing hundreds of files+OPT_FS. And having the @PART segment in a separat file makes it more difficult to change settings for a single part, since you have to do it twice.

Edit: Ok so I finally found the FS documentation and if I understood it correctly you only need one entry, which tbh is slightly counter intuitive from what OPT displays, since it has entries for FS all over the place. Some in OPT_FS, some in the parts, some in both, some with the actual values, some without. Also OPT_FS covers parts that never had fuel and shows options for all fuel types, while most parts only have Structural/Liquid/Liquid+Oxi. What's going on there, I honestly don't quite get it? @stali79

Edited September 25, 2016 by Spanksh

[Mycroft]

14 hours ago, degenerate said:

One thing I'm missing with it though is some powerful RCS thrusters, the stock ones won't get me far when dealing with a 300+ ton SSTO.

Actually, the highest RCS power in the mod is in the Avatar Shuttle Cockpit. If you have literally just the cockpit sitting on the runway, the  built in RCS system actually has enough power to lift the cockpit off the ground and fly it for a couple kilometers. What this could be made into, with the addition of a decoupler sharing the same cross section as the cockpit, you could perhaps use them as little landers or escape pods. THAT would be AWESOME. But I digress. What I originally intended to say was that that's the cockpit I'd recommend for a large spaceplane.

[Spanksh]

@stali79 Okay so the liquid fuel <-> liquid+oxygen conversion makes no sense.

E.g. parts have 1440+1760, but only 2000 liquid instead of 3200, or 3375+4125 but again only 2000 liquid instead of 7500. Is this intentional?

[stali79]

1 hour ago, Spanksh said:

@stali79 Okay so the liquid fuel <-> liquid+oxygen conversion makes no sense.

E.g. parts have 1440+1760, but only 2000 liquid instead of 3200, or 3375+4125 but again only 2000 liquid instead of 7500. Is this intentional?

I know there is a specific set of ratios for realism. When in doubt refer to stock mk2 tanks to work them out. Generally though its all about the weight. As an example from memory the Juno 4m tank has a dry mass of 4t, with LF/O brings it to 6 or 6.5t. When you add more fuel to percieved capacities you end up blowing the wet mass way too high. Most tank values were taken fron @K.Yeon's original cfgs.

8 hours ago, Mycroft said:

Actually, the highest RCS power in the mod is in the Avatar Shuttle Cockpit. If you have literally just the cockpit sitting on the runway, the  built in RCS system actually has enough power to lift the cockpit off the ground and fly it for a couple kilometers. What this could be made into, with the addition of a decoupler sharing the same cross section as the cockpit, you could perhaps use them as little landers or escape pods. THAT would be AWESOME. But I digress. What I originally intended to say was that that's the cockpit I'd recommend for a large spaceplane.

Could possibly add a decoupler module to the cockpit. Good idea.

[Spanksh]

13 minutes ago, stali79 said:

I know there is a specific set of ratios for realism. When in doubt refer to stock mk2 tanks to work them out. Generally though its all about the weight. As an example from memory the Juno 4m tank has a dry mass of 4t, with LF/O brings it to 6 or 6.5t. When you add more fuel to percieved capacities you end up blowing the wet mass way too high. Most tank values were taken fron @K.Yeon's original cfgs.

Could possibly add a decoupler module to the cockpit. Good idea.

 

Well according to stock standards you have to add the liquid+oxi amounts for liquid only.

See MK1 fuselage:

400 <-> 180+220, both weigh 2.25t, 2t fuel and 0.25t dry mass.

So I massively upped all the liquid fuel amounts to fit this standard.

 

On a side note:

I'm effectively completely done now. I also completely redid the OPT_FS, since several parts were missing and it was containing parts that aren't in the mod (under that name).

I did make a OPT_Resource_Defaults and OPT_FS, however after having done that I will move all entries into the parts themselves. While these cfgs are in fact convenient for mass-rebalance, I had to experience they are a massive pain, if you want to adjust single parts, since you have to either edit all 3 files or at the very least 2 files anyways. Also this enables FS to still work even when MM dies, which happens quite often (and serbian understandably refuses to release MM for prereleases, but in turn completely breaking OPT for these). That being said I overall dislike being dependent on it.

I will keep the two files along the old ones in a packed archive so they aren't used by KSP, but it's possible to go back to them if needed for whatever reason.

 

In the mean time here the current changelog for 1.8.6alpha (I went from .5 to .6 since it's a enormous overhaul, talking thousands of edits here, even if most might not be noticeable in game):

STILL PRESENT BUGS:

	- Stail Inline Docking Port doesn't attach to docking ports (? needs testing with new FS and MM)
	- Stail Inline Docking&Utility Port - Docking port shaft doesn't apply texture properly and has odd inverted mesh around the top
	- OPT_k_10m_cockpit has wrong texture in intake
	- l_8m_cockpit has wrong texture in intake
	- j_engineMount_4 has wrong texture around engine mounts
	- since Build 1532 Fuel Switch is completely broken

STILL TO DO:
	
	- Add EMM animation to b_cockpit_qs (I created a EMM texture)
	- Balance Monopropellant Amounts. They are all over the place from missing entirely to way too low to way too high.
	- Add working ModuleDockingBay to b_docking_port1
	- Align interior in mk23_cockpit
	- Align interior in k_10m_cockpit



1.8.6 alpha

* Updated for KSP 1.2
* Minor adjustments to folder- and texture-structure
* Removed several superfluous and duplicate textures
* Replaces several broken textures
* Converted all Part textures to DDS for far better visuals ingame (no more pixelation from a distance)
* Major reformatting and complete overhaul of all cfg files
	- Removed duplicate or superfluous entries
	- Added countless missing entries
	- Added tags to all parts
	- Sorted all entries in all parts
	- Fixed faulty entries
	- Updated outdated entries
	- Adjusted control names for consistency and fit with stock standards
	- Adjusted titles for consistency and fixed typos
	- Moved all parts to their appropriate categories
	- Added Transmitters to all Cockpits
	- Added KerbNet to Labs and Drone Cores
	- Added Hibernation to Drone Cores
	- Added/fixed ModlueScienceConverter and Experience Management on Labs
	- Disabled Staging on all retractable Docking Ports to fit with stock standards
	- Added Fuel to several parts missing it
	- Added FuelSwitch to most parts containing Fuel
	- Moved FuelSwitches and Default Resources to the parts away from separate cfgs.


*Additional major fixes/Changes:

	- Stail:
		b_dropBay_mk2
			- Fixed ModuleCargoBay object detection
			- Added Drag_Cube
			- Fixed Node orientation
			- Changed mesh filename for consistency (not part-name)
		b_dropbay_mk1
			- Fixed ModuleCargoBay object detection
			- Added Drag_Cube
			- Added inner Nodes
			- Fixed lifting surface	
		b_cockpit
			- Increased crew capacity to 5
			- Switched interior to the finished one from 1.7
		b_cockpit_qs
			- Added missing interior from 1.7

	- Wings:
		stabilizer_1a
			- Newly Added from 1.7. Slightly different version of stabilizer_a.
		All Main Wings
			- Added Liquid Fuel. Balanced according to wing_a1 in relation to effective wing surface

	- Engines:
		Ari-73
			- Newly added from 1.7

	- Misc:
		mk2_ramIntake1
			- Newly added from 1.7. Slightly different version of mk2_ramIntake.
				
		mk2_cockpit
			- Added missing interior from 1.7
		ils_cockpit
			- Fixed texture switcher
			- Switched interior to the finished one from 1.7
		phoenix_cockpit
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		i_4m_cockpit_isp
			- Replaced entirely replaced by 1.7 version. Now with fixed texture, decals and lights
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		i_4m_tail
			- Fixed texture
		mk23_cockpit
			- Added missing interior. (Still misaligned)

	- Avatar:
		ab_3m_adaptor
			- Newly added from 1.7 (formerly jk_3m_adaptor). Shorter version of ab_7m_adaptor.
		a_8m_cockpit
			- Newly added from 1.7 (formerly k_8m_cockpit).
		a_cockpit
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior

	- Kraken:
		k_10m_cockpit
			- Exchanged misfitting Humpback interior with former b_cockpit interior (still misaligned, but fits slightly better)
		jk_3m_adaptor
			- Newly added from 1.7
		k_10m_cockpit_legacy
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		k_10m_cockpit_custom
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior

 

[stali79]

5 minutes ago, Spanksh said:

 

Well according to stock standards you have to add the liquid+oxi amounts for liquid only.

See MK1 fuselage:

400 <-> 180+220, both weigh 2.25t, 2t fuel and 0.25t dry mass.

So I massively upped all the liquid fuel amounts to fit this standard.

 

On a side note:

I'm effectively completely done now. I also completely redid the OPT_FS, since several parts were missing and it was containing parts that aren't in the mod (under that name).

I did make a OPT_Resource_Defaults and OPT_FS, however after having done that I will move all entries into the parts themselves. While these cfgs are in fact convenient for mass-rebalance, I had to experience they are a massive pain, if you want to adjust single parts, since you have to either edit all 3 files or at the very least 2 files anyways. Also this enables FS to still work even when MM dies, which happens quite often (and serbian understandably refuses to release MM for prereleases, but in turn completely breaking OPT for these). That being said I overall dislike being dependent on it.

I will keep the two files along the old ones in a packed archive so they aren't used by KSP, but it's possible to go back to them if needed for whatever reason.

 

In the mean time here the current changelog for 1.8.6alpha (I went from .5 to .6 since it's a enormous overhaul, talking thousands of edits here, even if most might not be noticeable in game):

STILL PRESENT BUGS:

	- Stail Inline Docking Port doesn't attach to docking ports (? needs testing with new FS and MM)
	- Stail Inline Docking&Utility Port - Docking port shaft doesn't apply texture properly and has odd inverted mesh around the top
	- OPT_k_10m_cockpit has wrong texture in intake
	- l_8m_cockpit has wrong texture in intake
	- j_engineMount_4 has wrong texture around engine mounts
	- since Build 1532 Fuel Switch is completely broken

STILL TO DO:
	
	- Add EMM animation to b_cockpit_qs (I created a EMM texture)
	- Balance Monopropellant Amounts. They are all over the place from missing entirely to way too low to way too high.
	- Add working ModuleDockingBay to b_docking_port1
	- Align interior in mk23_cockpit
	- Align interior in k_10m_cockpit



1.8.6 alpha

* Updated for KSP 1.2
* Minor adjustments to folder- and texture-structure
* Removed several superfluous and duplicate textures
* Replaces several broken textures
* Converted all Part textures to DDS for far better visuals ingame (no more pixelation from a distance)
* Major reformatting and complete overhaul of all cfg files
	- Removed duplicate or superfluous entries
	- Added countless missing entries
	- Added tags to all parts
	- Sorted all entries in all parts
	- Fixed faulty entries
	- Updated outdated entries
	- Adjusted control names for consistency and fit with stock standards
	- Adjusted titles for consistency and fixed typos
	- Moved all parts to their appropriate categories
	- Added Transmitters to all Cockpits
	- Added KerbNet to Labs and Drone Cores
	- Added Hibernation to Drone Cores
	- Added/fixed ModlueScienceConverter and Experience Management on Labs
	- Disabled Staging on all retractable Docking Ports to fit with stock standards
	- Added Fuel to several parts missing it
	- Added FuelSwitch to most parts containing Fuel
	- Moved FuelSwitches and Default Resources to the parts away from separate cfgs.


*Additional major fixes/Changes:

	- Stail:
		b_dropBay_mk2
			- Fixed ModuleCargoBay object detection
			- Added Drag_Cube
			- Fixed Node orientation
			- Changed mesh filename for consistency (not part-name)
		b_dropbay_mk1
			- Fixed ModuleCargoBay object detection
			- Added Drag_Cube
			- Added inner Nodes
			- Fixed lifting surface	
		b_cockpit
			- Increased crew capacity to 5
			- Switched interior to the finished one from 1.7
		b_cockpit_qs
			- Added missing interior from 1.7

	- Wings:
		stabilizer_1a
			- Newly Added from 1.7. Slightly different version of stabilizer_a.
		All Main Wings
			- Added Liquid Fuel. Balanced according to wing_a1 in relation to effective wing surface

	- Engines:
		Ari-73
			- Newly added from 1.7

	- Misc:
		mk2_ramIntake1
			- Newly added from 1.7. Slightly different version of mk2_ramIntake.
				
		mk2_cockpit
			- Added missing interior from 1.7
		ils_cockpit
			- Fixed texture switcher
			- Switched interior to the finished one from 1.7
		phoenix_cockpit
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		i_4m_cockpit_isp
			- Replaced entirely replaced by 1.7 version. Now with fixed texture, decals and lights
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		i_4m_tail
			- Fixed texture
		mk23_cockpit
			- Added missing interior. (Still misaligned)

	- Avatar:
		ab_3m_adaptor
			- Newly added from 1.7 (formerly jk_3m_adaptor). Shorter version of ab_7m_adaptor.
		a_8m_cockpit
			- Newly added from 1.7 (formerly k_8m_cockpit).
		a_cockpit
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior

	- Kraken:
		k_10m_cockpit
			- Exchanged misfitting Humpback interior with former b_cockpit interior (still misaligned, but fits slightly better)
		jk_3m_adaptor
			- Newly added from 1.7
		k_10m_cockpit_legacy
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior
		k_10m_cockpit_custom
			- Removed placeholder boxes-interior

 

Nice work man. Find a way to get it to me for double checking and editing of changelog and will then up it to the github repo, OR you could do a merge request on github which will be easier.

[Spanksh]

Just now, stali79 said:

Nice work man. Find a way to get it to me for double checking and editing of changelog and will then up it to the github repo, OR you could do a merge request on github which will be easier.

Thanks!

Well, while I'm embarrassed to admit that, I haven't really worked with guthub yet, so I'll send it to you once I'm completely done. Also I prefer you looking over it before making it publicly available anyways.

Also in regards to the version check, what's the maximum version you usually set? eg. min is KSP 1.2.0 now, should max be 1.2.1?

[stali79]

max should be latest stable release. I will deal with that once i have it as i need to update the checker

[Sresk]

On 9/24/2016 at 9:51 AM, Spanksh said:

Okay so the latest prerelease just completely broke Firespitter, which makes it kinda difficult to update/add/modify all the fuel switches, but that can come later.

 

In regards to dds textures:

So by accident I just found out that (despite what I experienced when literally trying exactly this before, which is why I asked@stali79 to do it in the first place) meshes do actually detect dds textures even when they had png textures assigned. Afterwards I looked at the 1.7 meshes in blender and realized that most parts do in fact expect png, despite 1.7 exclusively using dds. So that's a thing apparently.

The fun part: They get applied mirrored, so I have to flip all textures vertically before converting. Again please don't ask me why, I have no freaking clue. I'm used to somewhat more predictable behavior from game engines.

So that's overall good news, since I can convert all the textures myself and simply complete the entire pack. So @stali79 in case you started converting, no need to do so and sorry for the trouble if you have. It's easier if I just finish it as is, instead of sending it back and forth, especially since I'm weeding out duplicate textures anyways and have to look at each part to make sure the cfg is working properly and all textures are there. So it's effectively no extra effort to do it all in one run.

From my experiences (limited!) With blender and unity 5 if I remember correctly the Z axis is in a different orientation in each program. The x axis in blender is the Z axis in unity5 and there may be an additional 90 degree rotation... but it's been over a year since ive dealt with either program. But I do remember that being a pain in the butt.

 

On another note I haven't read all of this post's so forgive me if this has been answered but is this compatible with the current ksp release? Or are you just planning on getting it ready for 1.2?

[stali79]

Semi trying to do both. 

But primarily for 1.1.3 as it is the current release of the game.

[Sresk]

2 minutes ago, stali79 said:

Semi trying to do both. 

But primarily for 1.1.3 as it is the current release of the game.

Huh I didn't think it was compatible as it's not showing up on ckan but that's great to hear I may have to check this out.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Sresk

[stali79]

Hasnt been put on ckan.

[Spanksh]

On 27.9.2016 at 5:34 AM, Sresk said:

From my experiences (limited!) With blender and unity 5 if I remember correctly the Z axis is in a different orientation in each program. The x axis in blender is the Z axis in unity5 and there may be an additional 90 degree rotation... but it's been over a year since ive dealt with either program. But I do remember that being a pain in the butt.

 

On another note I haven't read all of this post's so forgive me if this has been answered but is this compatible with the current ksp release? Or are you just planning on getting it ready for 1.2?

 

Well my version is already ready for 1.2 but we are waiting for the final release. Also neither Firespitter nor Module Manager works with 1.2 yet, so functionality would be very limited for now without some manual adjustments.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Spanksh

[TheKurgan]

Question for you Stali, did the old Juno inline docking port have crew capacity? Did it have an internal view?

Just curious, I added crew capacity back to it in the CFG file, but I was just wondering if the old version had files for the internal view.

Cheers.

[Spanksh]

41 minutes ago, TheKurgan said:

Question for you Stali, did the old Juno inline docking port have crew capacity? Did it have an internal view?

Just curious, I added crew capacity back to it in the CFG file, but I was just wondering if the old version had files for the internal view.

Cheers.

 

Good you mention that, I didn't even notice it was lacking the crew capacity. Added to the fixes for 1.8.6. Thanks!

[stali79]

1 hour ago, TheKurgan said:

Question for you Stali, did the old Juno inline docking port have crew capacity? Did it have an internal view?

Just curious, I added crew capacity back to it in the CFG file, but I was just wondering if the old version had files for the internal view.

Cheers.

It had crew capacity but i intentionally removed it as it is a docking port and never had an iva. It does not need crew capacity it only needs to be passable which it is. Do you see passenger seats at the main doors on a passenger jet?

Edited September 29, 2016 by stali79

[Spanksh]

6 minutes ago, stali79 said:

It had crew capacity but i intentionally removed it as it is a docking port and never had an iva. It does not need crew capacity it only needs to be passable which it is. Do you see passenger seats at the main doors on a passenger jet?

 

Well but no crew module has an iva and it's literally called "crewdock", while the others are only called dock or dockingport.

[stali79]

All i did was make a judgement based on logicnas i understood it. It made no sense to have seats for crew AND have the docking equipment in such a small module. It just wasnt logically sound.

[M_Ouellette]

It wouldn't be logically sound, you made a good call. The docking port is a combination airlock and access with a mechanical extension tunnel, realistically there wouldn't even be room in there for crew seating.

Edited September 29, 2016 by M_Ouellette

[Spanksh]

41 minutes ago, stali79 said:

All i did was make a judgement based on logicnas i understood it. It made no sense to have seats for crew AND have the docking equipment in such a small module. It just wasnt logically sound.

 

17 minutes ago, M_Ouellette said:

It wouldn't be logically sound, you made a good call. The docking port is a combination airlock and access with a mechanical extension tunnel, realistically there wouldn't even be room in there for crew seating.

 

Well KSP respectfully disagrees. In contrary to the Stail port, the June port tube is very short. It easily fits in the bulge at the top. It technically even leaves room for 4 seats, but I guess 2 are reasonable.

Proof:

The crew even has more space than in proper crew compartments and don't interfere with the fuel storage whatsoever.

 

Also it seems like a reasonable trade off for only having a small port contrary to stail, which has a big and small one, but no crew. Speaking of which, I was finally able to fix the stail inline docking port. Works flawlessly now.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Spanksh

[Mycroft]

@Spanksh does seem to have a point... On any other docking port, I'd agree with @stali79, but yeah that is true that it would seem to have room....

[M_Ouellette]

Ya on that hull, though you would have to remember the port retracts so it going to take up more space inside, so if we're not playing Doctor Who about things there's a fat tube in the middle of the room that port and it mechanism is sitting in. Is there still going to be room for seating around it?