[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[TheKurgan]

Just in case there are still people using this mod that have not figured out how to get tweakscale working properly again, here is the fix:

Go into your Gamedata/TweakScale/patches and open the OPT_Tweakscale.cfg file, then just replace the names of all the parts that have changed, for example, change line 127 from:

@PART[opt_wing_a] // OPT Main Wing Type A

to

@PART[wing_1a] // OPT Wing Type 1A

 

and POOF.. TweakScale works again!!

 

I'd submit the whole .cfg file, but I have made some changes to my files, so it wouldn't work for everyone.

Edited September 14, 2016 by TheKurgan

[sebi.zzr]

17 hours ago, stali79 said:

OPT will NOT be functional in 1.2

As it is,it might just be fine.
It's mostly part "mod",based on firespitter plugin.

[Rushligh]

On 9/12/2016 at 1:47 AM, stali79 said:

If someone can suggest a better performance profile for it i will gladly nerf it. Just be thankful it isnt hitting 10k thrust PER engine like it originally was lol

 

EDIT: its performance is currently based on one of the mk2 profile engines

1. make is a minimum of 2.5m Diameter (no scaling smaller)

2. Minimum velocity; real scram-jets require a certain amount of speed to work

3. Minimum altitude with the curve; IE it shouldn't work very well (or at all) in thick atmosphere.
 

I think that's the most fair. What would be nice is a low(er) power electric jet engine with near instant response and good gimbal; for VTOL applications. I mean it's easy to make one, but i don't want to take other people's models without permission.

[jquantum]

 

11 minutes ago, Rushligh said:

1. make is a minimum of 2.5m Diameter (no scaling smaller)

2. Minimum velocity; real scram-jets require a certain amount of speed to work

3. Minimum altitude with the curve; IE it shouldn't work very well (or at all) in thick atmosphere.
 

I think that's the most fair. What would be nice is a low(er) power electric jet engine with near instant response and good gimbal; for VTOL applications. I mean it's easy to make one, but i don't want to take other people's models without permission.

 

[spoiler=rant about engine curve]

To be fair for 2 and 3, the scrams jets are velocity limited and atm limited already. The rapiers kick into gear at mach 3 but the scrams are underpowered until mach 1.3 afterwhich they start scaling fast until Mach 4.5 then it starts slowing down again. In atm pressure it's max is only beween 0.03 to 0.3 atm anything above or below is less than 0.8 x Thrust x velocity multiplier.

Again, I'm just speculating based on how the numbers add up going backwards. If you wanted to reduce the power of the engines I'd probably change just the atmCurve key=1 0.6 to key=1 0.4 since that'd make the engines sit at 260kN. The problem then if you fly a super large plane and get it off the ground with only 260kN per engine... the engine is too strong at the top of the power curve for that craft. Currently, if you can fly a plane off the ground with 390kN of thrust (only a little more than a goliath btw at 360) the power curve is just right to get the craft into space with the scrams and vac engines and running a good profile. You can get really heavy loads into space too if you push the profile just right. 

This is the J92 engine, which has a different profile than the J81 engine which is more OP imo. 

The J81 engines run something like a jet/scram mixed. Anything below Mach 4 it runs like a powerful jet engine 550 x 4, then at Mach 4.5 it turns into a scram jet, eventually slowing down at mach 5.5. You don't see the performance tho because anything below 0.35 atm it gets a 50% nerf. 

[/spoiler]

TL;DR the curve is ok but I won't cry if it's changed. 

 

PS the mod at least loads in 1.2 prerelease, just there's no fuel in parts and 1.8.5 (not 1.8.5.1) has a few broken textures sure enough

[Rushligh]

2 hours ago, jquantum said:

 

[spoiler=rant about engine curve]

To be fair for 2 and 3, the scrams jets are velocity limited and atm limited already. The rapiers kick into gear at mach 3 but the scrams are underpowered until mach 1.3 afterwhich they start scaling fast until Mach 4.5 then it starts slowing down again. In atm pressure it's max is only beween 0.03 to 0.3 atm anything above or below is less than 0.8 x Thrust x velocity multiplier.

Again, I'm just speculating based on how the numbers add up going backwards. If you wanted to reduce the power of the engines I'd probably change just the atmCurve key=1 0.6 to key=1 0.4 since that'd make the engines sit at 260kN. The problem then if you fly a super large plane and get it off the ground with only 260kN per engine... the engine is too strong at the top of the power curve for that craft. Currently, if you can fly a plane off the ground with 390kN of thrust (only a little more than a goliath btw at 360) the power curve is just right to get the craft into space with the scrams and vac engines and running a good profile. You can get really heavy loads into space too if you push the profile just right. 

This is the J92 engine, which has a different profile than the J81 engine which is more OP imo. 

The J81 engines run something like a jet/scram mixed. Anything below Mach 4 it runs like a powerful jet engine 550 x 4, then at Mach 4.5 it turns into a scram jet, eventually slowing down at mach 5.5. You don't see the performance tho because anything below 0.35 atm it gets a 50% nerf. 

[/spoiler]

TL;DR the curve is ok but I won't cry if it's changed. 

 

PS the mod at least loads in 1.2 prerelease, just there's no fuel in parts and 1.8.5 (not 1.8.5.1) has a few broken textures sure enough

I get what you're saying; there should be {Ideally} 3 kinds of atmospheric engines;
High thrust at low atmosphere, Low Velocity (good for economy; lifter engines/ bypass turbofan)
Medium thrust at low-mid atmosphere, High velocity (Jet fighters)
Medium-extreme thrust at upper atmosphere,VERY high velocity. (Scram)

you can combine the engines into a mode changing hybrid engine with more weight and worse economy, but essentially those are the basics 'Realistically' speaking, in so far as liquid fuel jets are concerned. I would suggest a mode switch MK2 engine that changes mode from Jet to scram instead of exclusively using the atmosphere curve; just make it really heavy and have the scram be Hungry AF.

[jquantum]

fjEIOJFIO!!! 

Opt Plane Parts 1.8.5 works with a drop-in replacement of MM and FS (minus textures) with the Module Manager 2.6.25.2 (Fwiffo's build - so unofficial it's not funny but it works) and Firesplitter 7.40 for pre1.2. I don't know which made it work but I assume both did the trick. 

 

Firesplitter mod page

Fwiffo's build for MM <- Nevermind, need to wait for official build for MM I guess

 

Note: Both are not stable ie. some of the Firesplitter parts cause a crash but whatever the OPT parts uses doesn't seem to care.

 

Update: 1.8.5.1 textures are all good as intended ( by stali79 ). Kinda funny because the textures were fine in 1.1.3 on 1.8.5  oh well s'all fun and games . Actually, the OPT 2.5m Aerodynamic Tail still has no textures  well it's not like I ever used it and I'm not complaining since I'm playing in 1.2 XD 

Edited September 21, 2016 by jquantum
added links for those lazy + changes + update

[schlosrat]

Hi, AVC is generating a warning that 1.8.5.1 is available, but I've got 1.8.5. When I follow the download link to SpaceDock all I get is another copy of 1.8.5.

Is 1.8.5.1 posted somewhere else? CKAN isn't an option for me lat time I checked since it's windows based and I'm on a Mac.

What's up?

[armegeddon]

2 hours ago, schlosrat said:

Hi, AVC is generating a warning that 1.8.5.1 is available, but I've got 1.8.5. When I follow the download link to SpaceDock all I get is another copy of 1.8.5.

Is 1.8.5.1 posted somewhere else? CKAN isn't an option for me lat time I checked since it's windows based and I'm on a Mac.

What's up?

Actually, CKAN is based on Linux, and uses Mono to be cross-platform compatible. You just have to follow the instructions for installing on OSX to install it on a Mac.

[schlosrat]

Wow, I've got CKAN on my Mac. Thanks! This is very cool and I'm very grateful for you setting me straight on that!

Next problem... CKAN doesn't appear to know about OPT Space Plane Parts. As in it's not listed as an option to install, nor has it noticed that I've got it installed.

Here's where I'm at:

I can get CKAN to launch using "mono ckan.exe". I've configured the CKAN settings per the instructions on the page you linked. It seems to know about 24 of the 40 mods I've got (it shows an "AD" for installed on those), and of course it knows of many more mods out there. But I'll be damned if I can find anything that has OPT in the name except some completely unrelated CactEye Optics Communtiy thing.

I've confirmed that I've pointed it at the right KSP install by using it to launch KSP, which worked fine and showed the loading of all 40 mods I'm using right now.

So this is turing into a CKAN question, which probably doesn't belong here. Sorry about that, let me bring it back.

Q: Is there anywhere I can directly download 1.8.5.1?

Q: What would I get in that version anyway?

Thanks

[stali79]

I just test downloaded from spacedock and it downloaded 1.8.5.1. Is possible i didnt update the version file packaged in the mod.

Currently opt is not on ckan.

[schlosrat]

Thanks @stali79 I'll give space dock another shot

[schlosrat]

Thanks! Got it that time.

[Spanksh]

First of all I want to thank the people who continue this mod for all their time and effort! I was using 1.7 until most of the functionality finally broke with KSP 1.2. This is when I found you guys made a 1.8.5, where the 1.7 parts are also included in their original form, alongside all the new parts. So I'm super happy about that!

 

While I realize I have no right to ask anything of you, there was one request I would like to make:

Is there any chance you could switch back to DDS textures (or any other format that doesn't have the issues PNG does)? I would do so myself, however, while I can export the textures, I have no way of editing the texture paths in the meshes. The issue is that PNG textures are absolutely horrible and practically unusable in KSP. They are so jagged, it feels like looking at a game from the early 90's. Just look at these comparisons in the exact same version of KSP (inflated images to counter compression loss):

OPT 1.7 - DDS

OPT 1.8.5 - PNG

If there is a way to edit textures without needing the original meshes, I'm happy about anyone leading me to where I can find some info regarding that, and I'll gladly do it for my personal use. As said before, if I can help it, I really don't want to ask you guys to spend any more of your time than necessary, but I would really love to use the latest version of OPT.

Note: I'm not 100% sure this is actually related to the texture format, since I never made a mod for KSP myself, however that's what every single one of my searches about this issue brought up.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Spanksh

[stali79]

My original reasoning for changing back to png as opposed to dds was to reduce overall mod size. On average each dds is about 2x the size of the png. With the mod already sitting at 100mb+ it is simply too big. There is ongoing discussions on what we can do so stay tuned in.

[Drew Kerman]

1 hour ago, stali79 said:

100mb+ it is simply too big

why is that? Are you concerned about game performance or file hosting size? Some mods have options for hi-res textures, but I suppose that could be a lot of work for a pack this big?

[stali79]

Biggest mod I have seen so far is about 80Mb, and someone a couple of months back said that the size it was at the time (130mb) was way too big and so I took that as gospel and tried to shave space where I could.

 

[Spanksh]

8 hours ago, stali79 said:

My original reasoning for changing back to png as opposed to dds was to reduce overall mod size. On average each dds is about 2x the size of the png. With the mod already sitting at 100mb+ it is simply too big. There is ongoing discussions on what we can do so stay tuned in.

 

Thank you for your answer! While I understand and wholeheartedly agree, that the lowest possible size is desirable, I still personally believe that 100+ mb are easily justifiable, especially when it is in regards to sustaining the visual quality of the mod. Imo there still is a big difference between providing ridiculously large textures just for the sake of it and providing high quality textures to ensure the necessary visual appeal, especially in comparison to stock. The former not really applying to the mod, since the sizes are very reasonable, and the latter sadly not anymore being given with the current textures.

But then again, I'm more involved in modding games where mods approaching several GB are quite common, so maybe I have a genuinely weird view on what are acceptable file sizes.

I have to agree with Drew Kerman, if it is in any way possible in regards to time and effort and people wholeheartedly oppose larger file sizes, a "HD" pack as alternative would be highly appreciated.

 

I will definitely stay tuned, since I would absolutely love to use the latest version, but until then I guess I'll stick with 1.7 and do without some of the functionality.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Spanksh

[Denko666]

Is anyone else having issues with the Stail inline docking port? it does not 'control from here' even though the option is available in the menu and it won't dock to anything neither with the 2.5m Docking Node or the 1.25m Docking Clamp.

...or am i just installing too many mods?

[Spanksh]

1 hour ago, Denko666 said:

Is anyone else having issues with the Stail inline docking port? it does not 'control from here' even though the option is available in the menu and it won't dock to anything neither with the 2.5m Docking Node or the 1.25m Docking Clamp.

...or am i just installing too many mods?

I'm having the same issue, although I actually can dock the 1.25m. I'm actually fairly certain I was able to use the 2.5m in one of the early prereleases and after some update it suddenly stopped working.

I only use OPT, Firespitter, Module Manager and KER

[Drew Kerman]

19 hours ago, stali79 said:

Biggest mod I have seen so far is about 80Mb, and someone a couple of months back said that the size it was at the time (130mb) was way too big and so I took that as gospel and tried to shave space where I could.

Proot's visual pack is 472MB and that's all textures so it's really adding some serious heft to the game. But yea, I regularly see the larger part packs topping 100MB no problems

[gilflo]

I am having issue when downloading the last version on Spacedock, the download begins, then stop at 10Mo.....Can you set it on dropbox or whatever?

Thank's

[stali79]

Spacedock is having some issues the last few days. Will drop a github link over the weekend as i plan to convert all the textures to dds.

[Denko666]

@stali79 do you know anything about the Stail's inline docking adapter not working? Is there a way to fix it? I'm really bugged by this because of this: 

 

[stali79]

1 hour ago, Denko666 said:

@stali79 do you know anything about the Stail's inline docking adapter not working? Is there a way to fix it? I'm really bugged by this because of this: 

 

at this stage no, will spend some time on saturday taking a look at it while I convert all the textures.  btw how did you fold your wings?

[Denko666]

16 minutes ago, stali79 said:

at this stage no, will spend some time on saturday taking a look at it while I convert all the textures.  btw how did you fold your wings?

I used infernal robotics + legacy pack to do that. The flat hinges fit nicely into the wings exposing only the barrel. And joint reinforcements .. otherwise they twist and turn and break off during flight. I can post you a .craft if you want.