[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

[Starwaster]

I'm using it in 1.4.1 as is....

7 hours ago, Stormie said:

Hey so I apparently just started having an issue in the last day or 2, I don't *think* it's been reported yet, but if I try and use the J-fuselage Large Docking port (whether attached to something else, either a partially built ship, a completed ship, or just by itself), when I get to the runway or launch pad, the ship (or part, if it's just the docking port) will teleport about a mile into the sky and start falling back to earth. I tried attaching clamps to the plane I was building, all that does is keep the ship from falling back to earth once it teleports, oddly enough . I tried a clean install of OPT and it's dependencies, no dice. Anyone else having this issue or know how to fix it? I kinda depend on this part for every space plane design i end up making, I'm not gonna be able to keep building until I get this resolved. Log, if needed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aix1lx_gUnyAMM7g6wI1jxuIGZK1-daR/view?usp=sharing

 

Yeah it probably has something to do with your 17,440 exceptions.

• Kopernicus has classes that won't load
• 16,284 instances of 'MissingFieldException: Field '.KSPParticleEmitter.pe' not found.' and I have no idea what mod that is from
• BDArmory throwing exceptions - and it seems something like 13 of those parts don't even compile
• FAR throwing exceptions trying to access colliders

I'd start by uninstalling any recent mods you installed and trying again. A good deal of the errors are happening before you even finish loading the game btw.

[Stormie]

6 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

I'm using it in 1.4.1 as is....

Yeah it probably has something to do with your 17,440 exceptions.

• Kopernicus has classes that won't load
• 16,284 instances of 'MissingFieldException: Field '.KSPParticleEmitter.pe' not found.' and I have no idea what mod that is from
• BDArmory throwing exceptions - and it seems something like 13 of those parts don't even compile
• FAR throwing exceptions trying to access colliders

I'd start by uninstalling any recent mods you installed and trying again. A good deal of the errors are happening before you even finish loading the game btw.

The particle emitter thing is probably from the PlanetShine and/or Stock Planet Texture Overhaul mods.

Mmk then, I'll try uninstalling/reinstalling those and FAR and just getting rid of BDArmory for now(I don't think that's updated to 1.4 yet), see if that fixes it, and report back. Just seems weird that these would cause only ONE part to instigate a teleport bug lol. You'd figure it'd be a bunch or all of OPT.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Stormie

[JadeOfMaar]

@Stormie Remove Kopernicus, FAR and Infernal Robotics. These mods should all be dead or causes for hell in KSP 1.4.

47 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

• 16,284 instances of 'MissingFieldException: Field '.KSPParticleEmitter.pe' not found.' and I have no idea what mod that is from

The B9 Aerospace parts pack(s) is mentioned with these.

[Snark]

Several posts have been removed here.  Folks, please don't pester mod authors for updates.  They know when they need to update things, and breathing down their necks and jostling their elbows doesn't help.  Remember that they're giving you shiny toys for free, in their spare time, which has to take a back seat to IRL responsibilities.  So, please show a little appreciation by being patient.  And read through the recent thread posts before you post-- there's a good chance your question may have been answered already, anyway.

Also... if anyone sees someone else whom you believe is violating rules... please do not accuse or lecture them, as it is not your place to do so.  Instead, please just report the post (with an appropriate note) to get the moderators' attention, and let us attend to anything that needs attending to.  It's what we're for.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Modding Maniac]

45 minutes ago, Snark said:

Several posts have been removed here.  Folks, please don't pester mod authors for updates.  They know when they need to update things, and breathing down their necks and jostling their elbows doesn't help.  Remember that they're giving you shiny toys for free, in their spare time, which has to take a back seat to IRL responsibilities.  So, please show a little appreciation by being patient.  And read through the recent thread posts before you post-- there's a good chance your question may have been answered already, anyway.

Also... if anyone sees someone else whom you believe is violating rules... please do not accuse or lecture them, as it is not your place to do so.  Instead, please just report the post (with an appropriate note) to get the moderators' attention, and let us attend to anything that needs attending to.  It's what we're for.

Thank you for your understanding.

im sorry, i neglected to read the rules, thx for telling me magical tardigrade

[Stormie]

21 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Stormie Remove Kopernicus, FAR and Infernal Robotics. These mods should all be dead or causes for hell in KSP 1.4.

The B9 Aerospace parts pack(s) is mentioned with these.

 

22 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I'm using it in 1.4.1 as is....

Yeah it probably has something to do with your 17,440 exceptions.

• Kopernicus has classes that won't load
• 16,284 instances of 'MissingFieldException: Field '.KSPParticleEmitter.pe' not found.' and I have no idea what mod that is from
• BDArmory throwing exceptions - and it seems something like 13 of those parts don't even compile
• FAR throwing exceptions trying to access colliders

I'd start by uninstalling any recent mods you installed and trying again. A good deal of the errors are happening before you even finish loading the game btw.

Euuuurrggghh, ok, so, still no dice. I removed all those mods, no go. Validated files, (2 were missing), still nada. Tried a clean, fresh install, reinstalling all mods save for the ones mentioned, nothing. Tried removing literally EVERY mod except OPT and it's dependencies.....and anything with the mentioned docking port is still teleporting to the sky >_________< I even tried starting a new save just on the off chance it was something with the save file itself. Here's an updated log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aix1lx_gUnyAMM7g6wI1jxuIGZK1-daR/view?usp=sharing

Thoughts anyone?

[Starwaster]

@Stormie I will look at your log when I get home

[Starwaster]

@Stormie

Ok so I replicated your problem... I missed where you said it was the LARGE docking port so I didn't see this happen before. I guess I haven't used that port in awhile.

And I know what's doing it but I don't really know why. KSP has had detection to make sure vehicles aren't buried in the ground when loading in. Sometimes it has't always done its job and 1.4.1 was supposed to have greatly improved that behavior. The only thing I can figure out is that for whatever reason KSP thinks that the part is loading in almost a kilometer underground so it is moving it UPWARDS by an amount it thinks will resolve the issue...

[Untitled Space Craft]: ground contact! - error. Moving Vessel  up 998.402m

The thing is that KSP uses raycasting to detect where the vessel is in relation to the ground so I don't get how it thinks it is 1000m under the terrain. There must be something about that part's geometry that is confusing things but I don't understand what that could be. If I use the gravity hack in the cheat menu and set gravity to 0.01 then it floats back to the runway unharmed and I quicksave and then quickload and this time the part loads in without issue... Dunno why.

I suggest downloading the following. It works with 1.4.1 (YMMV) and it does the same thing that KSP does which is move the vessel upwards, but it's a little more sane than KSP is (whose Sanity Check bounced)

I tried that and the part loads in without teleporting up into the sky. Give it a try and see if it helps you.

 

[ss8913]

I don't think that FAR is the problem.  I'm using FAR in 1.4.1 with no problems, other than as described with OPT parts, and I don't think it's a FAR conflict... I'll try WorldStabilizer, but... the problem described above, yes, I've seen it too, but it's *only* with OPT parts, and it didn't happen in 1.3.x, so... something's not playing nicely together.  Perhaps a 1.4.1 recompile of OPT would fix it?  Maybe not, but worth a try.

[Stormie]

11 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@Stormie

Ok so I replicated your problem... I missed where you said it was the LARGE docking port so I didn't see this happen before. I guess I haven't used that port in awhile.

And I know what's doing it but I don't really know why. KSP has had detection to make sure vehicles aren't buried in the ground when loading in. Sometimes it has't always done its job and 1.4.1 was supposed to have greatly improved that behavior. The only thing I can figure out is that for whatever reason KSP thinks that the part is loading in almost a kilometer underground so it is moving it UPWARDS by an amount it thinks will resolve the issue...

[Untitled Space Craft]: ground contact! - error. Moving Vessel  up 998.402m

The thing is that KSP uses raycasting to detect where the vessel is in relation to the ground so I don't get how it thinks it is 1000m under the terrain. There must be something about that part's geometry that is confusing things but I don't understand what that could be. If I use the gravity hack in the cheat menu and set gravity to 0.01 then it floats back to the runway unharmed and I quicksave and then quickload and this time the part loads in without issue... Dunno why.

I suggest downloading the following. It works with 1.4.1 (YMMV) and it does the same thing that KSP does which is move the vessel upwards, but it's a little more sane than KSP is (whose Sanity Check bounced)

I tried that and the part loads in without teleporting up into the sky. Give it a try and see if it helps you.

 

SUCCESS! Thank you so much Now I can go reinstall all my other mods again lol. But yeah it's weird that KSP and OPT don't play nice for JUST that one part.

[AtilaElari]

On 26.03.2018 at 1:22 PM, Starwaster said:

@Stormie

Ok so I replicated your problem... I missed where you said it was the LARGE docking port so I didn't see this happen before. I guess I haven't used that port in awhile.

And I know what's doing it but I don't really know why. KSP has had detection to make sure vehicles aren't buried in the ground when loading in. Sometimes it has't always done its job and 1.4.1 was supposed to have greatly improved that behavior. The only thing I can figure out is that for whatever reason KSP thinks that the part is loading in almost a kilometer underground so it is moving it UPWARDS by an amount it thinks will resolve the issue...

[Untitled Space Craft]: ground contact! - error. Moving Vessel  up 998.402m

The thing is that KSP uses raycasting to detect where the vessel is in relation to the ground so I don't get how it thinks it is 1000m under the terrain. There must be something about that part's geometry that is confusing things but I don't understand what that could be. If I use the gravity hack in the cheat menu and set gravity to 0.01 then it floats back to the runway unharmed and I quicksave and then quickload and this time the part loads in without issue... Dunno why.

I suggest downloading the following. It works with 1.4.1 (YMMV) and it does the same thing that KSP does which is move the vessel upwards, but it's a little more sane than KSP is (whose Sanity Check bounced)

I tried that and the part loads in without teleporting up into the sky. Give it a try and see if it helps you.

 

I was going to report the same issue but the offending part was Deployment Bay. WorldStabilizer indeed solves it.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, AtilaElari said:

I was going to report the same issue but the offending part was Deployment Bay. WorldStabilizer indeed solves it.

Yeah I'm thinking World Stabilizer might help with a lot of issues (ok one issue causing lots of problems), including my local abuses of the Bon Voyage mod...

Edited March 28, 2018 by Starwaster

[AtilaElari]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

Yeah I'm thinking World Stabilizer might help with a lot of issues (ok one issue causing lots of problems), including my local abuses of the Bon Voyage mod...

Maybe add it on the main post as a recommended mod, until you figure out how to stop KSP from freaking out on those parts.

[AtilaElari]

Am I correct in understanding that there are no H-sized cockpits or even adapters? If so I'm confused on how would I use the H parts for building a plane.

 

Also, don't you think that OPT engines are rather overpowered? I'd suggest increasing their mass to off-set their insane atmospheric efficiency and/or increasing their price in Career mode.

Edited March 29, 2018 by AtilaElari

[martin4x4]

Hello everyone,

 

I came across two things that feel a bit odd:

 

OPT-E J Linear aerospike feels underperforming when compared to other engines: It is set to produce about 100kN per 1t of engine weight, while most stock chemical engines produce between 150-250kN per 1t of weight. In case of Linear aerospike, that's around 4t of extra weight that could be used for cargo or for more fuel, or for secondary set of more efficient engines. In short, currently it's much more efficient to use e.g. two Nebulas paired with two LV-Ns, which will get craft to orbit easily and offer much higher ISP both in atmosphere and in space. I guess considering it's large size, increasing power to match about 200kN/t would be more logical, since it can be replaced by an engine mount with four 1.25 slots which can be used by four Vectors with 4000kN together or by two vectors + two LV-N, still offering significantly more thrust and much more ISP than single Linear aerospike. At 8t and 1600kN it would remain considerably weaker than 2 vectors at same weight (2x4t for 2x1000kN) but more efficient thanks to it's higher ISP. Right now there isn't much use for Linear aerospike besides for streamlined look. 

 

Regarding ARI engine, the idea behind it is great, but it could also use a bit of tweaking. Right now, in atmosphere it's simply better to use air breathers and in oxygen-less space like on Duna, an LV-N is usually a much better choice. Aside from EVE or a dedicated Duna glider that never goes to space there isn't much use for ARI. Maybe increasing the flight ceiling for the high efficiency mode? Increasing it's vacuum ISP could render other vacuum engines obsolete, but then again, Making history DLC introduced a 412 vacuum ISP engine, so there may be some room left. 

 

Are those two engines working as intended or is it still WIP? 

[Hunony]

is it working in, 1.4.2?

[Fonz]

Hi @JadeOfMaar this is mod is by far my favorite, more than Mechjeb probably  I was wondering if you think we could see an inline docking port for K sized ships in the future? Thanks

[JadeOfMaar]

4 hours ago, Fonz said:

Hi @JadeOfMaar this is mod is by far my favorite, more than Mechjeb probably  I was wondering if you think we could see an inline docking port for K sized ships in the future? Thanks

Once I have the skill to, I'll consider that. But OPT is not as much my mod as you may think, and my part modding skill is limited to configs and re-textures.

[JadeOfMaar]

On 3/30/2018 at 8:16 AM, martin4x4 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I came across two things that feel a bit odd:

 

OPT-E J Linear aerospike feels underperforming when compared to other engines: It is set to produce about 100kN per 1t of engine weight, while most stock chemical engines produce between 150-250kN per 1t of weight. In case of Linear aerospike, that's around 4t of extra weight that could be used for cargo or for more fuel, or for secondary set of more efficient engines. In short, currently it's much more efficient to use e.g. two Nebulas paired with two LV-Ns, which will get craft to orbit easily and offer much higher ISP both in atmosphere and in space. I guess considering it's large size, increasing power to match about 200kN/t would be more logical, since it can be replaced by an engine mount with four 1.25 slots which can be used by four Vectors with 4000kN together or by two vectors + two LV-N, still offering significantly more thrust and much more ISP than single Linear aerospike. At 8t and 1600kN it would remain considerably weaker than 2 vectors at same weight (2x4t for 2x1000kN) but more efficient thanks to it's higher ISP. Right now there isn't much use for Linear aerospike besides for streamlined look. 

 

Regarding ARI engine, the idea behind it is great, but it could also use a bit of tweaking. Right now, in atmosphere it's simply better to use air breathers and in oxygen-less space like on Duna, an LV-N is usually a much better choice. Aside from EVE or a dedicated Duna glider that never goes to space there isn't much use for ARI. Maybe increasing the flight ceiling for the high efficiency mode? Increasing it's vacuum ISP could render other vacuum engines obsolete, but then again, Making history DLC introduced a 412 vacuum ISP engine, so there may be some room left. 

 

Are those two engines working as intended or is it still WIP? 

I share the sentiment with the J Aerospike and never use it myself. I am not the main dev and he's technically never on so we cannot expect any updates and tweaks via the main OPT download.

However, I have privileges with OPT Legacy and there will be a release soon™, and in it I intend to supply an optional rebalance config to OPT Main. Give me the numbers you expect and I will include them--but I may buff by a bit. Thhe catch, though, is you will need to keep OPT Legacy around. It is just as large a download as main OPT.

Regarding the ARI (75) engine, I've already addressed your concern via OPT Legacy. The older ARI (73) engine model shown below, serves as a variant nuclear turbojet (intake and Oxygen not required) in atmosphere with 3000 Isp, but in vacuum is effectively a nuclear rocket, has 900 Isp, the thrust of 2 or 3 LV-N's without all the weight, it consumes only LiquidFuel, and there's no alternator in it.

Those two engines are working as intended by the main dev. But that doesn't mean they work well for most of us.  

 

On 3/29/2018 at 2:47 AM, AtilaElari said:

Am I correct in understanding that there are no H-sized cockpits or even adapters? If so I'm confused on how would I use the H parts for building a plane.

 

Also, don't you think that OPT engines are rather overpowered? I'd suggest increasing their mass to off-set their insane atmospheric efficiency and/or increasing their price in Career mode.

The H body is only a complement to the K body. H planes are meant to only serve as remote-piloted shuttles never meant to go far from their parent K plane. Unfortunately the main dev never fleshed it out such that you could snugly dock an H plane to a K or KH plane....or have cargo space in them.

All of the non-engine parts are already excessively massive, and create lots of drag by themselves, and most of the cargo bays do not prevent drag. Also, OPT is based in sci-fi where contemporary levels and limits of performance need not apply... But an optional rebalance config is on its way which will tame the engines or make them reasonably harder to use (and not by inflating their price tags).

...I like that they're OP (but I understand). I absolutely hate spamming engines and doing low altitude warm-up runs.  

[ss8913]

there seems to be some weird collider issue with OPT and 1.4.x... I wonder if it's the same problem that Kerbal Konstructs had.. maybe I'll try recompiling OPT.  Don't think it'll help much for a mod that's only parts, but.. can't hurt to try.

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, ss8913 said:

there seems to be some weird collider issue with OPT and 1.4.x... I wonder if it's the same problem that Kerbal Konstructs had.. maybe I'll try recompiling OPT.  Don't think it'll help much for a mod that's only parts, but.. can't hurt to try.

No, you'd have to reimport the parts AFTER fixing whatever problem the individual parts had in the first place.

[Hunony]

will this mod be updated sometime?

[ss8913]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

No, you'd have to reimport the parts AFTER fixing whatever problem the individual parts had in the first place.

not sure what you mean by that... as far as I know it's OPT causing the problem since only OPT parts *have* the problem... I guess it could be a mod conflict but.. what does OPT do differently from all the other parts packs out there that don't have collider issues?

[JadeOfMaar]

30 minutes ago, ss8913 said:

not sure what you mean by that... as far as I know it's OPT causing the problem since only OPT parts *have* the problem... I guess it could be a mod conflict but.. what does OPT do differently from all the other parts packs out there that don't have collider issues?

The affected OPT parts need to be converted back into a format editable in any 3D modelling program, then cleaned up, then sent through the Unity Editor again to make the optimized KSP part model. The collider problem is that the colliders themselves are poorly made and this new version of Unity (from the KSP perspective) has a big problem with it.

There is nothing to recompile in OPT. There is no dll directly involved with OPT to even have to think about.

1 hour ago, Hunony said:

will this mod be updated sometime?

It works just fine as is. Just learn to remove or avoid whatever parts trigger the ground contact error bug and jump 1km in the air.

[Hunony]

1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

The affected OPT parts need to be converted back into a format editable in any 3D modelling program, then cleaned up, then sent through the Unity Editor again to make the optimized KSP part model. The collider problem is that the colliders themselves are poorly made and this new version of Unity (from the KSP perspective) has a big problem with it.

There is nothing to recompile in OPT. There is no dll directly involved with OPT to even have to think about.

It works just fine as is. Just learn to remove or avoid whatever parts trigger the ground contact error bug and jump 1km in the air.

oh so its working for 1.4.2? because i wanna build my first SSTO and OPT engines are really helpful