Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[sploooshman]

so I said I would check back , thanks for the advice , running 11.04 now , mono done , proprietry done , all the other annoying installation issues sorted , CKAN working well , 8k textures installed along with planet shine and snow ect ,

not an easy task for a non nix guy but well worth the effort , and just intime to get a nice working copy before I deal with the 1.0 mod updates

Thought I would share the view - its pretty awesome so thanks for your help -

[FennexFox]

As I tried to implement plasma rcs port from DSEV mod for my near-future roleplaying,

I found that RO rcs system is somewhat new to me.

How can I add a new RCS parts?

[hypervelocity]

How's everyone? Hope you are all doing great!

I've been thinking in a couple of questions I wanted to ask you guys while I do my research, maybe someone can help out!

Firstly: what do you guys do for heavy RCS? I have a 300-tonne Lunar Transport -intended to land 60 t of hardware on the surface- and it feels like a whale swimming in peanut butter! (of course) Tried putting in approx. 30 regular RCS ports - that works (really gently but it works) though it increases the part count a lot:(

Also I was having an issue withe the launcher for the above vehicle - a central first stage with 6 extra engines in an Asparagus setting. However, I can only get the central engines to start at liftoff - the other 6 won't start and their TEATEB suppplies are consumed (or transferred to the central tank, as I see a remainder in the central tank; I think there's an issue here, tried re-routing the TEATEB with TAC fuel balancer but even so the engines won't start) - I have managed to launch it using solid boosters but that's not as efficient >( !!!

The above is basically it!! Glad if anyone could lay a hand, either way I'm thankful for your dedication, you make this an even greater game!!!

[ColKlonk]

How's everyone? Hope you are all doing great!

We're waiting...!! ....... otherwise we're great

Firstly: what do you guys do for heavy RCS? I have a 300-tonne Lunar Transport -intended to land 60 t of hardware on the surface- and it feels like a whale swimming in peanut butter! (of course) Tried putting in approx. 30 regular RCS ports - that works (really gently but it works) though it increases the part count a lot:(

I placed 24 RCS thrusters driving the final stage of a rocket... works well.

a central first stage with 6 extra engines in an Asparagus setting. However, I can only get the central engines to start at liftoff - the other 6 won't start and their TEATEB suppplies are consumed (or transferred to the central tank, as I see a remainder in the central tank; I think there's an issue here, tried re-routing the TEATEB with TAC fuel balancer but even so the engines won't start)

You must (or at least I do )either place the thrusters all on one tank or ...

On each tank that has thrusters connected to it, right click on the tank and 'lock resources' of that tank.

This should prevent the fuel from automatically transferring out - You can still manually transfer fuel to balance the tanks.

Edited May 5, 2015 by ColKlonk

[ColKlonk]

While we wait for the Real Stuff.. I'm back fidgeting with V0.90..

Complete new reinstall and 'back to work'.... Played with pure hydrogen stages... man I luv that gas !! light and powerful.

Now putting 50 Ton (Nett) - 77 ton (Gross) payloads into orbit with a rocket of 1,100 tons.

Movie running at 4x speed - with occasional 1x speed for pretty stuff

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rclansx0lkteoqa/RSS1100.mp4?dl=0(69MB = 7:00)

[sisyphean]

hey guys, wondering if anyone can give me some tips,

after pretty extensively probing Mercury Venus Mars and Jupiter ive begun considering long term manned flights to the other planets, my plan is a manned flyby of venus follwed by a colonization of mars culminating in a manned landing on titan and then later a flyby of uranus.

im not planning on doing this in 1 mission, im confident im going to be able to complete the Venus flyby and the martian colonization without a hitch but the planned titan mission is reasonably terryfying,

i want to return a 6 kerbal crew (and land at least 3 of them on titan) with a full science suite, (ive maxed the tech tree but whats the point of going if im not going to get science). i want the crew to have a 5:1 space:crew ratio with supplies for at least the mission duration however im not sure how im going to get the d/v without crashing the game, my optimal transfer is 7.8km/s without an insertion burn (im hoping i can get a gravity assist from Saturn to kill some d/v and then aerobrake on titan), but that doesnt allow for a return trip which i have no idea how to calculate because none of the tools available for plotting give me the ability to find gravity assists.

im happy to send the lander separately but id rather not send any of the essential supplies separately. meaning life support and habitation weighs in at about 240tons (im thinking a nuclear generator for power production) ideally i want there to always be a possibility of returning the crew home should anything go wrong at any time but im beggining to think theres no chance of that,

does anyone know of a way to easily work out more efficient routes using gravity assists? im aware that the cassini-huygens mission utilized gravity assists from first venus then earth and finally jupiter to reach saturn and im wondering if there is a tool for calculating how to get a gravity assists?

[Hattivat]

For Titan you certainly need either the nuclear lightbulb engine from the atomic rockets mod, or one of the better engines from the Near Future pack (both options fully RO-configured), otherwise the mass ratios would be impossibly high for a return trip.

Alternatively, you could consider ISRU (mining methane on the surface for use as ascent fuel) to cut down on the lander weight, but that option is not yet RO-implemented, and I'm not sure if mass savings would be big enough to be worth the risk.

If you want to be fully realistic, then given the insane transfer times for Hochmann and semi-Hochmann trajectories, you also need either a huge habitation module for the transfer to keep your crew's sanity and their ability to walk under gravity without breaking bones (you do want them to leave some footprints on Titan, right?), including measures to simulate gravity and produce food (the "space food" we currently use becomes pretty much inedible after 2-3 years of storage), OR an engine with massive Isp, resulting in massive delta-v margins enabling a "straight line" trajectory.

[Nansuchao]

an engine with massive Isp, resulting in massive delta-v margins enabling a "straight line" trajectory.

Cough cough.... D/T Vista cough cough

[ColKlonk]

hey guys, wondering if anyone can give me some tips..

I'm doing a pragmatic exploration program... first dumping supply depots in orbits.

I've dumped the first one.. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121516-RSS-Back-to-supply-drops and planning 4-8 depots per orbit.

Each depot will have an 'ISRU' to scavenge space resources, which will resupply transiting space craft.

And if the craft have an abundance of extra supplies on return routes.. etc, they can dump these on the depots

Whether KSP can handle this.. hope so.. otherwise my project is doomed !!

[sisyphean]

the mass savings for ISRU on the lander wouldnt make a difference im definitely going to be sending that to titan seperately and it will be prepacked with all the fuel it needs,

as for crew sanity and well-being my vessel crew quarters and command section looks like this:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

as you can see from the pictures ive been trying to keep part count to a minimum so i can maximize the amount of fuel tanks i can place behind it but i still have 42 seats for 6 crew and 2 centrifuges for health purposes. (twice the design feature of the Nautilus-X)

as for the rations im pretty sure existing food tech is upto scratch for a 20year shelf life, i have personally done a taste test on a british army beans and burgers pack that was 10 years old and it tasted fine to me and those things are designed to survive more hazardous environments than space. though i would very much like the idea of a mod where i can produce food, convert oxygen and purify water with biological matter its not out there AFAIK so ill have to make do without.

i will have to look into the alternate engines though that honestly sounds like a fix for my problems at present,

Edit: just to point out the explorer 1 in that configuration carries sufficient supplies for 6 kerbals for 12 years (another 6 years worth will be sent with the lander to be recovered before landing, i figure if they get to titan and theres an issue with the lander then they can make 5 years of food stretch to the 7 needed for return)

Edited May 15, 2015 by sisyphean

[Hattivat]

Holy smokes, that is more than adequate.

As for the food - that obviously depends on what food it is and how it is prepared. However:

source

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1750-3841.2010.01982.x/epdf

Although to be fair with so many habitation modules you can easily "assume the problem away", as there is more than enough space there for a veggie-producing greenhouse, and meats are much less perishable.

[sisyphean]

yea the assume it away was pretty much my objective with adding so many modules, the design started out as an adaptation of the nautilus and the reason i added the second ring is because im aware plants have great difficulty sprouting in 0g so the second ring was more about ring is the assumed hydroponics area.

in its current design its carrying 49t of water but im having braiin fade in working out weather i should replace most of it with water purifiers... for 10.5t i can have a water purification plant for 6 kerbals but the conversion rate is .081 waste into .077 water and .004 waste so im not sure how to work out how much i need to start out with because im not sure how often that conversion takes place so if it will only save me 10t of water theres not much point but if it saves me 30 then i can cary at least a further 2 years of food and O2, its a shame there isnt the regenerative CO2 remover found on the shuttle available in game, that would make life very simple

[FennexFox]

I`m tinkering with Aerojet Kerbodyne mod to make a 4m DCSS module, and seems I got one!

needless to say it`s not a RO level realistic one, but anyway, enough to play with.

Thanks Hativatt, when you taught me you how to deal with MM configs, you gave me a courage to edit some parts to this depth.

[winged]

does anyone know of a way to easily work out more efficient routes using gravity assists? im aware that the cassini-huygens mission utilized gravity assists from first venus then earth and finally jupiter to reach saturn and im wondering if there is a tool for calculating how to get a gravity assists?

Clever strategy is to divide your journey into two ships. First ship "Cargo" should contain as much as possible: fuel to return, lander and its own fuel and about 50% of life support mass. It will reach target using the most efficient trajectory. Your second ship with crew will go directly to your destination only with habitation, capsule, some life support and little fuel just to get into orbit. Obviously its nothing wrong with building one gigantic ship with everything needed to return. It's just doing things the Kerbal way. Spaceships from 2010: Odyssey Two have a weight of 5000t.

Regarding gravity assist: I'm using Flyby Finder for RSS, it should help you doing single gravity assists but it has no abilities to calculate deep space manuevers or double flybys which is essential when you want to reach outer planets the most efficient way. So you still need some basic knowledge. A couple of days ago I've wrote small guide how to reach Jool using Galileo style trajectory. It's mainly about making double flybys, proper mid course corrections and combining it with FF abilities. Here is the link:

http://i.imgur.com/RaiffgB.jpg

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118470-1-0-2-Any-hope-left-for-SSTOs?p=1931674#post1931674

I hope it will help you AFAIK it's also efficient to use Jupiter first if you want reach any other outer planet. It can be easily calculated using FF.

OR an engine with massive Isp, resulting in massive delta-v margins enabling a "straight line" trajectory.

Maybe Orion? 63000m/s for a crewed Callisto mission should be quite enough Isp 6000s if I remember correctly.

http://i.imgur.com/NBHqRDB.jpg

Edited May 16, 2015 by winged

[sisyphean]

i will check out the flyby finder, and honestly that tutorial is fantastic, ive never had any issues traveling to lanets in stock ksp because the d/v cost isnt very high and putting lots into LKO is not difficult, RO on the other hand makes it a real head scratcher and that basically explained how to do it.

i had thought of using Jupiter for an assist but strangely the cheapest transfer to Jupiter (within 50 years) is 8.342 Km/s whereas the transfer to Saturn is only 6.8 Km/s (im assuming the difference is down to orbital inclination)

i think im going to do some trawling of the webnets to see if i can find an interactive solar system map and some info on how to calculate transit times etc

[Hattivat]

i think im going to do some trawling of the webnets to see if i can find an interactive solar system map and some info on how to calculate transit times etc

You probably want this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmat/

[sisyphean]

You probably want this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gmat/

wow that is EXACTLY what i was looking for..... <3

[FennexFox]

I think I`m really close to make a nice playable DCSS4M, but have two things to be perfect...

1. 4m-3m tank adapter, which is clearly above my ability having no blender. (I`m not demanding, just stating.)

2. RealPlume setting of this RL-10, which I think I can. (There`s some RL-10 engines have RealPlume setting, so it would be basically a copy-pasting thing...)

@PART[HG10B2]:FOR[RealPlume] // RL-10{

!fx_exhaustFlames_blue_small = DELETE

!fx_exhaustLight_blue = DELETE

!fx_smokeTrail_light = DELETE

!fx_exhaustSparks_flameout = DELETE

!sound_engage = DELETE

!sound_loop = DELETE

!sound_off = DELETE

!sound_out = DELETE

@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]

{

@name = ModuleEnginesFX

%runningEffectName = powersmoke

%directThrottleEffectName = powerflame

}

EFFECTS

{

powerflame

{

MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE_PERSIST

{

name = flamethrust

modelName = RealismOverhaul/SmokeScreen_MP_Nazari_FX/noxflame

transformName = thrustTransform

localPosition = 0,0,1.0

fixedScale = 1.2

speed = 0.0 1.75

speed = 1.0 1.75

fixedEmissions = false

grow

{

density = 1.0 -0.999

density = 0.12 0.0

density = 0.0 0

}

size

{

density = 1.0 0.6

density = 0.12 1.0

density = 0.0 1.0

}

logGrow

{

density = 1.0 0.0

density = 0.12 0.0

density = 0.0 15.0

}

offset

{

density = 1.0 -0.5

density = 0.12 0.1

density = 0.0 0.25

}

energy

{

density = 1.0 0.33

density = 0.0 1.0

}

emission

{

density = 1.0 1.0

density = 0.5 0.6

density = 0.0 0.35

}

}

AUDIO

{

channel = Ship

clip = RealismOverhaul/SmokeScreen_RE_Sounds/sound_spsloop

volume = 0.0 0.0

volume = 1.0 1.0

pitch = 0.0 0.2

pitch = 1.0 1.0

loop = true

}

}

engage

{

AUDIO

{

channel = Ship

clip = RealismOverhaul/SmokeScreen_RE_Sounds/sound_liq7

volume = 0.8

pitch = 1.0

loop = false

}

}

disengage

{

AUDIO

{

channel = Ship

clip = sound_vent_soft

volume = 1.0

pitch = 2.0

loop = false

}

}

flameout

{

AUDIO

{

channel = Ship

clip = sound_explosion_low

volume = 1.0

pitch = 2.0

loop = false

}

}

}

}

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEnginesFX

thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform

engineID = HG10B2

runningEffectName = running_closed

exhaustDamage = True

ignitionThreshold = 0.1

minThrust = 0

maxThrust = 175

heatProduction = 300

fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.21

PROPELLANT

{

name = LiquidFuel

ratio = 0.9

DrawGauge = True

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = Oxidizer

ratio = 1.1

}

atmosphereCurve

{

key = 0 375

key = 1 270

}

}

This didn`t work as shown in the video. What I did wrong?

+ my God I pasted wrong module from aerojet mod on this post, and I'm off my computer for a week. What a stupid I am!

Edited May 17, 2015 by FennexFox

[FennexFox]

Wow, I found that Blender is Free(Thought it would be way expensive), so I might made the tank adapter by myself!

So only thing I need now is that documentation about RealPlume or someone to supervise what I did wrong on the post above...

+ I`m gonna make 5M DCSS a little bit edited(having actual nodes on equipment shelf, integrated hydrazine storage, proper RCS and so on), 4M DCSS, and 8M EUS which all of them looks similar. All of them would be heavily dependent on Aerojet Kerbodyne, and slightly dependent on FASA, Chaka Monkey Exploration and some others. When I`m done, which would be proper action between publishing a new mod or contributing on RO config?

Edited May 19, 2015 by FennexFox

[bigreddog]

Are there currently any mods that are part of RO (or not if anyone here knows) that add the orbital elements regression of nodes and rotation of apsides that occur due to oblateness of celestial bodies? I want to place spacecraft in sun-synchronous orbits but so far I haven't found any mods that have this capability.

Celestial bodies would need the J2 parameter (a measurement of oblateness), and then when a spacecraft is in orbit, the regression of nodes and rotation of apsides would be calculated based on semimajor axis, eccentricity, inclination, planet/moon radius, and gravitational parameter. The argument of periapsis and longitude of the ascending node would then change at that constant rate

[FennexFox]

Are there currently any mods that are part of RO (or not if anyone here knows) that add the orbital elements regression of nodes and rotation of apsides that occur due to oblateness of celestial bodies? I want to place spacecraft in sun-synchronous orbits but so far I haven't found any mods that have this capability.

Celestial bodies would need the J2 parameter (a measurement of oblateness), and then when a spacecraft is in orbit, the regression of nodes and rotation of apsides would be calculated based on semimajor axis, eccentricity, inclination, planet/moon radius, and gravitational parameter. The argument of periapsis and longitude of the ascending node would then change at that constant rate

That sounds like if you wanna that mod, then you need a station-keeping mod also for not sun-synchronous orbits, particularly GEO.

[bigreddog]

I'm not really sure what you mean by station keeping, but when inclination is 0 regression of nodes is meaningless and for a circular orbit rotation of apsides is meaningless, so for circular, equatorial orbits this mod wouldn't do anything different.

[ColKlonk]

Is there currently a way to control probes (without a link to the control station) from the launch ship in RSS ?

Version 0.90

[NathanKell]

Launch a ship with >= 6 kerbals and a large remote guidance unit. That is a remote control station.

[ColKlonk]

While I wait 233 days before we go to Mars, busy creating a resupply/return rocket for the Earth orbiter base station.

The return craft/supplies, being somewhat lighter (~55 tons).. I've had to reduce the launch rocket down to 800 tons.

I'm a bit excited about this one as it nearly flies itself into orbit.. with no problems at all.

All that's needed is a bit of manual control on the last stage where I use about 5 tons of payload 'juice' to finalise orbit.

Edited May 30, 2015 by ColKlonk