Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[Sol Invictus]

I installed Realism Overhaul for KSP 1.1.3 with all of it's dependencies and recomendations, along with Realistic Progression Zero and it's own requirements. I built a simple airplane, and then noticed that there are no stages corresponding to the engine. I tried launching said plane, but there was no way of igniting the engine. I didn't forget about fuel. Even under right click menu there was no option to start the engine. Eventually I opened few of the stock airplanes to see if their engines could be ignited, with no success. I used to make airplanes in vanilla game and in Realism Overhaul under KSP 1.1.2 without such problems. What should I do?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Sol Invictus

[NathanKell]

@Sol Invictus update SolverEngines from CKAN, there was a packaging error that broke AJE.

[Sol Invictus]

@NathanKell Thank you, that solved my problem. By the way, does Realism Overhaul nerf reaction wheels, and if it does, by what factor? Usually I just create config file in GameData folder, like this:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]
    {
        @PitchTorque *= 0.1
        @YawTorque *= 0.1
        @RollTorque *= 0.1
    }
}

I'd like to know if it's still necessary, or if Realism Overhaul took care of it.

[Theysen]

5 minutes ago, Sol Invictus said:

@NathanKell Thank you, that solved my problem. By the way, does Realism Overhaul nerf reaction wheels, and if it does, by what factor? Usually I just create config file in GameData folder, like this:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]
    {
        @PitchTorque *= 0.1
        @YawTorque *= 0.1
        @RollTorque *= 0.1
    }
}

I'd like to know if it's still necessary, or if Realism Overhaul took care of it.

By default no probe core or command pod has a Reaction Wheel by default, the ones under Command & Control are configured accordingly to realistic'ish' levels. No need for your patch I'd say.

 

[Sol Invictus]

@Theysen That's awesome, thank you.

[Glaran K'erman]

Just curious, in all my meanderings of the forums I have never seen RO address thermal management. That is, the making sure your electrical components are kept warm (generally, sometimes cool) enough to function. While the stock heat system does the job on a part to part basis, the sub-components of these parts are always magically within their thermal tolerance. It doesn't take much digging round to figure out either that this is a critical part of spaceflight. Heck, half the power requirements of the Juno mission are for thermal management, and by no means do they have power to spare. Has any mod tried to take this on?

[NaturalHeadphone]

Hi, just wondering if I'm the only one with this problem. I have just installed the updated SolverEngines and staging now appears. However, even though the game shows the staging, I can't activate the engines. Along with this, I can't activate anything by right clicking on it.

 

Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?

Thanks

[Wolfair corp.]

Do it have a way to only have parts?

[NathanKell]

@NaturalHeadphone that sounds like a serious install issue. If you have the current version of the required mods (and no unsupported mods) you will not encounter that.

 

@Wolfair corp. sorry? Don't get what you're saying.

[NaturalHeadphone]

10 hours ago, NathanKell said:

@NaturalHeadphone that sounds like a serious install issue. If you have the current version of the required mods (and no unsupported mods) you will not encounter that.

@Wolfair corp. 

Thanks, I will start doing that now.

[gemini4]

As far as I can tell, fuel cells can only run off of LOX/LH2. However, haven't there been attempts to use HTP with a catalyst as a source of power, oxygen, and water? If I remember correctly, the moon rocket proposed by the British Interplanetary Society used just such a device. I would like to see a configuration for fuel cells that uses this fuel, as its storable nature makes it more practical than the conventional LOX/LH2 mixture offered right now. If there's a reason why fuel cells don't have this configuration, please let me know. I don't know nearly as much about rocketry as the developers of the RO suite, and I'm sure that there are very good reasons why the fuel cells in the game only run on LH2/LOX. Thank you for your response, though.

[Combatsmithen]

Shameless advertising 

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Combatsmithen

[Sol Invictus]

I was thinking, is there anything about Realism Overhaul TAC Life Support config that would render SETI Greenhouse (made for stock TACLS) incompatible?

[Wolfair corp.]

On 07/13/2016 at 1:21 AM, NathanKell said:

 

@Wolfair corp. sorry? Don't get what you're saying.

Scuse me. I mean: do it have a way to only have parts of Realism Overhaul mod. Justs parts, no other things ("Realism" things.)

Forget it. Forget all what i said. I was confused.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Wolfair corp.

[NathanKell]

I'm still confused. RO patches other parts, it has like maybe 2 parts that are genuinely its own.

[EliasDanger]

Not sure whether to ask her or in the remote tech thread, oe the rp-0 thread, but I was wondering...integrated omnis in these early avionics say they have a range of 200.00 km or 400.00 km, but they dont seem to be right. Did a test with the x-ray detector and without any antennas maintained comms all the way through 15,000 km. Do i have a setting wrong in remote tech somewhere or are the descriptors wrong?

[Jovus]

1 hour ago, EliasDanger said:

Not sure whether to ask her or in the remote tech thread, oe the rp-0 thread, but I was wondering...integrated omnis in these early avionics say they have a range of 200.00 km or 400.00 km, but they dont seem to be right. Did a test with the x-ray detector and without any antennas maintained comms all the way through 15,000 km. Do i have a setting wrong in remote tech somewhere or are the descriptors wrong?

Ooh! One I think I can answer!

I believe that RSS' RemoteTech config uses the Root calculation method instead of the Base/Line/Whatever-it's-called default method. What this means is that range is not a simple flat number depending on the weakest antenna involved, but is a function of the power of both antennae in the link.

So your basic integrated omni has a nominal range of 200km, but when it's talking to a ground station with a range of something like 1800 Gm, it can do so from quite a ways away, because your DSN dishes are good at picking up weak signals.

 

Unless I'm totally wrong, and there's a config error somewhere.

[Phineas Freak]

@EliasDanger as @Jovus said, the RO RemoteTech patch activates the additive (or root) antenna model. This means that if you have an antenna with a range of 100 km and a ground station with a range of 1.14 x 10¹⁴ m then the absolute maximum range will be:

MaxRange = min(AntennaRange, GroundStationRange) + SQRT(AntennaRange ^ 2 * GroundStationRange ^ 2)

Plugging the numbers to the equation we get:

MaxRange = 100 km + SQRT(100 km ^ 2 * (1.14 x 10 ^ 14 km) ^ 2) = 1.14000000000001 x 10 ^ 14 m

But Remote Tech clamps the value of the omnidirectional antennae to 100 times the minimum range (for directional antennae this changes to 1000 times) so the value will become 10000 km (and more antennae will also add to the range linearly).

Bob Fitch explains that in a great detail in his latest Ares video (No. 3) so check it out.

[EliasDanger]

16 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@EliasDanger as @Jovus said, the RO RemoteTech patch activates the additive (or root) antenna model. This means that if you have an antenna with a range of 100 km and a ground station with a range of 1.14 x 10¹⁴ m then the absolute maximum range will be:

MaxRange = min(AntennaRange, GroundStationRange) + SQRT(AntennaRange ^ 2 * GroundStationRange ^ 2)

Plugging the numbers to the equation we get:

MaxRange = 100 km + SQRT(100 km ^ 2 * (1.14 x 10 ^ 14 km) ^ 2) = 1.14000000000001 x 10 ^ 14 m

But Remote Tech clamps the value of the omnidirectional antennae to 100 times the minimum range (for directional antennae this changes to 1000 times) so the value will become 10000 km (and more antennae will also add to the range linearly).

Bob Fitch explains that in a great detail in his latest Ares video (No. 3) so check it out.

so basicially take those distances in the description and times 10, then, yeah? Same thing apply to the dishes?

[Phineas Freak]

@EliasDanger not by 10 but by 100 (and by 1000 for the directional ones). This "x100" rule of thumb can only be applied to the omnis though because the directional ones do not reach the clamp limit (so you would have to use the equation above to figure out the max effective range).

The next release of RO will include the maximum effective range and power consumption (in Watts) as part of the antenna description so it will be easier to figure out the required/recommended antenna for the task at hand.

[ImpartialDerivatives]

Is there good config file documentation for RO? Specifically, /u/Zarbizaure and I have been having trouble making custom engine configs. The game freezes when trying to load the file. Are there any good resources to get us pointed in the right direction?

[autumnalequinox]

On 12/31/2015 at 1:58 PM, NathanKell said:

@MissMolly whenever you throttle an engine back to 0%, it shuts off. Engines in real life (and thus RO) have limited ignitions, so once you shut an engine off you probabyl can't turn it back on again. That's why you were getting the "no ignitions remaining" messages. Note that if you have an autopilot mod (like MechJeb) make sure you've left turned off any throttling options (like Maintain Acceleration, or Limit Dynamic Pressure) since they don't realize that throttling an engine to 0 is bad in RO.

In order for an engine to start and/or keep running, you need to make sure that only propellant (and not pressurant vapor) is in the feedlines. To do this, the engine and the tanks need to be under, or recently under, positive acceleration. You can do this as mentioned above: via ullage rockets that fire before and during ignition (solid or RCS), by firing the next stage while the lower stage is still firing ("hot staging"), or by having sufficient cryogenic boiloff vented out the rear that positive acceleration is maintained.

This tutorial covers that sort of thing, I believe: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/Tutorial:-Reaching-Orbit

Omg I know this is an ancient post but I spent the entire day struggling with why my engines kept cutting out.  I tried everything.  I followed the RP-0 sounding rocket to the letter.  Searched and searched forums, reddit, etc.  Then I realized I had Mechjeb on all cores mod and dynamic Q on.  I am almost cackling with happiness/insanity right now.  Finally watched my first sounding rocket fly till it ran out of fuel.  

Always check your Mechjeb settings sweeties     

::slaps head, rolls on floor, screams to the heavens, but is happy now::

[Carraux]

I like the feature, that launch towers have built in pump support for fuel. But the pumps are usually turned off by default, which does not make any sense to me. I cannot see any negative aspect in having them on, whereas forgetting them may lead to an unflyable rocket (battery drain, fuel boil off). Wouldn't it be nice to have them turned on by default?

And I would be glad if the pumps would support fuel insertion even after the engines have been ignited. Saturn V for example used external kerosine fuel for firing up the 5 F-1s...

[Phineas Freak]

1 hour ago, Carraux said:

I like the feature, that launch towers have built in pump support for fuel. But the pumps are usually turned off by default, which does not make any sense to me. I cannot see any negative aspect in having them on, whereas forgetting them may lead to an unflyable rocket (battery drain, fuel boil off). Wouldn't it be nice to have them turned on by default?

This would actually be a nice idea but the change must be implemented via RF since it provides the launch clamp fuel pumping capability.

1 hour ago, Carraux said:

And I would be glad if the pumps would support fuel insertion even after the engines have been ignited. Saturn V for example used external kerosine fuel for firing up the 5 F-1s...

Source for that? AFAIK Saturn V only used propellants from GSE to start the gas generator for the turbopump. Is it possible to push the required amount of propellants via the GSE?

 

[autumnalequinox]

I just want to thank all the RO devs for the most fun I've had in KSP for a long time.  This modpack is blowing my mind with it's challenge and realism.  It really did end up bringing me back to my first awe-filled days playing stock (and rapidly modded-stock) KSP.  I picked it up fast and all my interim research on RL launch systems is really paying off.  But there are so many other things I have learned (STAGING and the nuances, oh and spin STABILIZATION).  All these things I wondered about, like why do they do that in RL, I totally understand now.

It's really rocket science now.  Everything but actually designing the internal systems (can you imagine what a headache that would be!?)  So kudos to the dev team.

I again believe this could easily be sold as KSP's first real, paid expansion pack.  I would happily pay for it.  So just an idea.