Voyager's 125 pictures

[Kerbart]

I am very surprised that they didn't include the Moon landings. I'd assume you'd want other civilisations to see your space-related achievements.

Maybe a not-so-clever plan based on the assumption that they see us as a threat when we're able of space travel?

[Kryten]

Maybe a not-so-clever plan based on the assumption that they see us as a threat when we're able of space travel?

If they can't realise the interstellar probe is evidence of space travel, they're not going to be a threat to anyone but themselves.

[Kerbart]

The aliens are not stupid.

THIS. It's safe to assume that if they come across Voyager and manage to intercept it their technology has advanced pretty far. It's not like we expect it to land on their doorstep after all.

It's also safe to assume, unless the galaxy is teeming with intelligent life (and dozens of years of looking for it suggests we'd need to manage our expectations of that in a conservative manner), finding such an alien artifact would be a major MAJOR scientific event. Which means that it's unlikely that studying it is going to be left to Mrs. Rosenbergs 4th grade Science Class, but rather the top scientists of the world who will take a look at it. And maybe even release the images to the public to crowd source figuring out what it all means.

Yeah, they'll figure it out.

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If they can't realise the interstellar probe is evidence of space travel, they're not going to be a threat to anyone but themselves.

As I said, it wouldn't be a very clever plan

[Camacha]

The aliens are not stupid. A microscopic examination of the probe would show lacks the complexity to contain an intelligent mind, and isotopic and elemental analysis would show it was powered by the radioactive decay of plutonium 238, whose decay products would still exist, in the correct ratios. It would be a very simple machine to them. Now, perhaps they DO recognize it as a form of life- they might, and some humans already consider machines as having a simple form of sentience. However, they'll recognize that the probe cannot have constructed ANYTHING itself, it didn't have an intelligent mind, and it doesn't appear to have any means of replication. It thus must have been created by something else, something more complex. Meanwhile, if the pictures survive, they show a bipedal creature that uses tools and has five-fingered hands. The most logical conclusion is that these creatures were the ones that created the probe. There are other explanations (such as the message being some sort of deception), but none of them are as simple and likely. You think that the aliens will be so stupid they might not even be able to apply Occam's razor? Without basic logical skills like Occam's razor, science is impossible, and they would never have achieved spaceflight anyway.

You are totally right, all those assumptions make perfect sense. From a human perspective. An alien might live in a totally different universe, with different types of life, making use of different chemical reactions, different kinds of technology, even having very different senses. There might be so little overlap that a probe is as confusing as sending a whale over.

It's hard to imagine a being that communicates by constructing messages out of metals, ceramics, etc. That is a HIGHLY inefficient method of data storage.

See, this is one of those things where your imagination already falls short. We even do that ourselves. Our ways of storing data are plethora and often seem ridiculous. We arrange metal into signs, use scratches to form letters, arrange paint into meaning, magnetize tiny bits of metal to encode words, our cells use acids to form words - it all can be obvious or very insignificant, depending on how you look at it. Changes are aliens will not know what to do with it at all and might not even recognize these specific forms of communication as information at all.

You are locked to the our perception of our universe, of our way of life. And understandably so, but that does not make it universal.

Not sensible. There are thermodynamic, chemical, and evolutionary reasons why life should be recognizable.

I see no reason why that should be true.

[Camacha]

That`s the plot of Star Trek: The Motion Picture

I never saw that

Which means that it's unlikely that studying it is going to be left to Mrs. Rosenbergs 4th grade Science Class, but rather the top scientists of the world who will take a look at it. And maybe even release the images to the public to crowd source figuring out what it all means.

Yes, I am sure it will be like that, if it were the kinds of aliens you generally see in Star Trek (weird heads and customs, otherwise very similar to humans). I doubt that though, such a scenario is highly unlikely.

[Aethon]

It's also safe to assume, unless the galaxy is teeming with intelligent life (and dozens of years of looking for it suggests we'd need to manage our expectations of that in a conservative manner), finding such an alien artifact would be a major MAJOR scientific event. Which means that it's unlikely that studying it is going to be left to Mrs. Rosenbergs 4th grade Science Class, but rather the top scientists of the world who will take a look at it.

Mmm. If we stumbled across a clearly alien artifact on the surface of Mars, do we have the right to tinker with, and possibly destroy property belonging to extraterrestrials? What if we inadvertently activate a defense or propulsion mechanism causing serious harm?

[Camacha]

Mmm. If we stumbled across a clearly alien artifact on the surface of Mars, do we have the right to tinker with, and possibly destroy property belonging to extraterrestrials? What if we inadvertently activate a defense or propulsion mechanism causing serious harm?

Maybe not even defense; what if its normal mode of operation happens to be highly dangerous to us?

[Aethon]

Can we then demand reparations for the damage?

If they are as advanced as they should be, they will certainly be able to conceal from us, any probe they don't want to be found. There fore anything we find, is probably meant to be found. I would assume that any probe found would be harmless as to avoid an inter stellar conflict.

[Camacha]

If they are as advanced as they should be, they will certainly be able to conceal from us, any probe they don't want to be found. There fore anything we find, is probably meant to be found. I would assume that any probe found would be harmless as to avoid an inter stellar conflict.

I am not sure. I think that building interstellar probes is hard enough without implementing concealment strategies. The objective is to explore, not to hide. Plus that hiding can be hard if you are up against something intelligent. Without knowing its senses and habits, you would not even know where to start or how to hide.

The same goes for danger - our current probes are full of dangerous devices and materials. Of course, more advanced stuff will be needed to go interstellar, but it reasonable to assume energy levels (and thus inherent danger) are only going to go up, not down. All the stuff we shoot up at the moment is dangerous as anything. Then again, that is assuming a human like physiology. Who knows, maybe some common Earth substance is much more dangerous to them than plutonium. That is not even far fetched, as space faring creatures might very well have evolved to be resilient against radiation, but in the absence of said common Earth substance.

[Technical Ben]

For all those saying we cannot be misinterpreted.

Try explaining colour to a blind person, or sound to the deaf. More so, try having a discussion without their language (brail to the blind or sign language to the deaf). Some things are "universal" but the majority is not.

Though, "an image speaks a thousand words". An image is very much "specific" and "literal". It's what it is... meaning is between those sharing. Without a conversation (two way communication), the receiver can still see what it literally shows, even if they cannot imagine the intent.

[Sky_walker]

Images sent to any alien civilization should be clear, simple, logical, help with understanding either text messages or cross-reference each other to make it more likely that whoever receives them can create logical flow explaining what is what. Voyager pictures sadly in a majority do not fulfill that role. So even if someone would manage to decipher them and actually view them (as opposite to, say, trying and failing to decipher them as encoded message) - chances of understanding anything but a few images would be rather slim. That's basically what my problem is with these images. Logic, and maths - these photographs do not really follow them, and these two things are the most universal values that any "aliens" encountered would be most likely to use in order to comprehend them. (I would also complain about an awful quality, to the point where some things are very difficult to understand even for humans (Eg. photographs of the sun), but that's a separate topic)

[Camacha]

Without a conversation (two way communication), the receiver can still see what it literally shows, even if they cannot imagine the intent.

Providing they can decipher the code with which you encoded it, and that they have a similar sense. I think creatures with no or residual eyesight but with, for example, sonar capabilities will have a hard time interpreting 2D graphic images.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Camacha

[Kryten]

Try explaining colour to a blind person, or sound to the deaf.

Easy! 'Colour' is the perception of differing wavelengths of a narrow band of EM radiation, 'Sound' is similarly the perception of differing wavelengths of vibrations within a certain band of frequencies.

[Camacha]

Easy! 'Colour' is the perception of differing wavelengths of a narrow band of EM radiation.

Perfect, the colour orange is popping up in my head as if I am seeing in on a television You're not wrong, but it is far from a description someone would be able to use to understand the experience.

[Technical Ben]

You mean the photos were not just put on film/plates? Ah yes. If they are digitally encoded, it would need a very specific mathematical mind to decode them.

Theoretically possible, we have done similar. But so hard, it may never be done (see the few ancient languages we have trouble deciphering even now, only cross reference and existing translations ever allow us to figure them out).

[Drunken Hobo]

Love that it included a man riding an elephant. Shows we're the frigging boss of this planet.

Also love the classic Mustang in (what I presume is) India:

[Kryten]

You mean the photos were not just put on film/plates? Ah yes. If they are digitally encoded, it would need a very specific mathematical mind to decode them.

They're part of the data on the golden disk.

[Godot]

Providing they can decipher the code with which you encoded it, and that they have a similar sense. I think creatures with no or residual eyesight but with, for example, sonar capabilities will have a hard time interpreting 2D graphic images.

And even aliens which possess eyes and use a writing system may not understand that we use circles to depict electron orbitals and letters combined with lines in order to depict atoms and their connections within molecules, not to forget the depiction of the DNA strand with single letters standing for the nucleobases.

I also don´t think that aliens who don´t have a reproduction system which resembles that of mammals might understand our pics of human reproduction organs and brest feeding women (and I guess the mammal reproduction system isn´t necessary the best reproduction system that is thinkable ... and therefore not necessarily one that might come up on top in an alien evolution)

[Camacha]

Also love the classic Mustang in (what I presume is) India:

Not so classic back then

I also don´t think that aliens who don´t have a reproduction system which resembles that of mammals might understand our pics of human reproduction organs and brest feeding women

For all we know they see some kind of parasite we are trying to warn them for. Beware, here be breast eating and belly feeding creatures.

It's not far from the truth though, those tiny humans tend to suck the life and money out of their parents

Edited November 12, 2014 by Camacha

[Brotoro]

The golden record has instructions inscribed on it to help aliens figure out how to play it and view the encoded photos. We even sent along a needle for their record players.

[Camacha]

The golden record has instructions inscribed on it to help aliens figure out how to play it and view the encoded photos. We even sent along a needle for their record players.

It made me wonder - would people 600 years ago be able to decipher the instructions on there? I kind of doubt it.

[Kryten]

It made me wonder - would people 600 years ago be able to decipher the instructions on there? I kind of doubt it.

I think we can reasonably assume a civilisation able to stop a probe moving at 10+km/s relative velocity can work out phonograph technology.

[sp1989]

Mandatory knowledge for any alien civilization:

https://i.imgur.com/G4c2XXr.png

Imagine if aliens come here asking for Walter Mondale?

[magnemoe]

I think we can reasonably assume a civilisation able to stop a probe moving at 10+km/s relative velocity can work out phonograph technology.

Probably, however its one of the technologies who might have been skipped if you don't bother with recorded music, however it was invented multiple times and not for music.

Also rotating media with magnetic or optical storage make lots of sense.

First thing you would do then finding an primitive artifact would be to look at all earlier inventions to see if you find something similar.

An species on a planet with higher gravity would have an far harder time reaching orbit so their space program would start late, say somebody who never used anything than optical computers and reaction-less trusters on probes, however they should have plenty of stuff in their version of the patent archive.

[Camacha]

I think we can reasonably assume a civilisation able to stop a probe moving at 10+km/s relative velocity can work out phonograph technology.

You can assume all you want The path of technology might be very different, or maybe their technology has been evolving for such an extended period of time they lost all connection with older developments. We can't even read some databases from the 90's any more. Maybe they don't have hearing, or maybe it works in a completely different sound band. Maybe they don't have eyes, or don't understand 2D images, as our brains spend massive amounts of resources to make all that work. Maybe their perception is shifted into completely different wavelengths altogether. And we are not even talking about the craft being worn or damaged.

To summarize; such an assumption is likely wildly fanciful.

however they should have plenty of stuff in their version of the patent archive.

Do they? Imagine Earth in two million years. If humans or intelligent descendants still exist by then, just imagine how many civilisations have risen and fallen, and how much technology will have been lost and reinvented by that time. Who knows what in our eyes odd combinations of technology will exist.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Camacha