[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[insidery]

i have a feeling that prices on solid fuel are wrong in RO, or maybe i'm missing something? trying to do career with rp-0 and prices for 1L of PBAN is 4000 times more than 1L of Ethanol... i would expect 4 times not 4k

[gruneisen]

i have a feeling that prices on solid fuel are wrong in RO, or maybe i'm missing something? trying to do career with rp-0 and prices for 1L of PBAN is 4000 times more than 1L of Ethanol... i would expect 4 times not 4k

Well, considering that the price of ethanol ranges from $1 to $2/ gallon or about $.25/L to $.5/L, it is waaaaaaaay cheaper than solid rocket motor propellant.

I work for a solid motor manufacturer and I can't say what the price is per kg of propellant, but $1000 - $2000 / liter is not a bad estimate.

Remember - space is EXPENSIVE!

[insidery]

Well, considering that the price of ethanol ranges from $1 to $2/ gallon or about $.25/L to $.5/L, it is waaaaaaaay cheaper than solid rocket motor propellant.

I work for a solid motor manufacturer and I can't say what the price is per kg of propellant, but $1000 - $2000 / liter is not a bad estimate.

Remember - space is EXPENSIVE!

so early on carrier mode i can build simple thing like probecore+tank+ lets sat rd103 on ethanol for a total of 5000 funds. But if i switch to probecore + M55(with good olD PBAN) it cost about 24K funds for the same dV? its either liquid engines are too cheap, or srb fuel too expensive in RO.

PBAN can be made under $20/L nowadays... obvioslu ti make specific cut in srb cost more than that, but not that much... it just seems to me that balance is off by far, i see no reason to use srb at all even early in career when i dont have good engines available

[Rabada]

so early on carrier mode i can build simple thing like probecore+tank+ lets sat rd103 on ethanol for a total of 5000 funds. But if i switch to probecore + M55(with good olD PBAN) it cost about 24K funds for the same dV? its either liquid engines are too cheap, or srb fuel too expensive in RO.

PBAN can be made under $20/L nowadays... obvioslu ti make specific cut in srb cost more than that, but not that much... it just seems to me that balance is off by far, i see no reason to use srb at all even early in career when i dont have good engines available

I agree. It kinda seems to me that perhasp whoever set that price messed up the unit conversions. I'm pretty sure that 1 fund in RO is supposed to be equal to 1,000 US dollars (in 1950's dollars balanced for inflation I believe)

[NathanKell]

Yep, for some reason the non-SolidFuel costs weren't patched. Fixed in git now.

You can replace your RealismOverhaul/RO_Resources.cfg with this one.

[M@.]

I replaced the RO_Physics by this one, still same problem, factor of 6. So I looked at the "Physics.cfg" in the root folder and found the convection factor there being set at 6. I put it to 1.1 there, and now it's at 1.1 in the game. Is there something weird happening where the game is not reading the RO_Physics values? I'm wondering now what else I have wrong! thanks again for the quick answer.

M@.: You are indeed experiencing a bug, since the RO setting for convection factor is 1.1 not 6.

What mods do you have installed? Verify you have GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_Physics.cfg and verify it looks the same as https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/blob/master/GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_Physics.cfg

Clearly *something* is messing up your physics settings.

[shoe7ess]

I wasn't sure exactly where to post this, but seeing as how I'm running a Realism Overhaul build of KSP 1.0.4 I figured here is as good a spot as any. I've found that since the switch to .dds textures, fitting in just the base mods for Realism Overhaul and RP-0 almost fills the RAM limit (assuming one is using full texture graphic option, which is basically necessary since the RSS textures look disgusting at half res).

Using GCMonitor I found that the game uses roughly 1.7 Gb of RAM upon launch, slowly adding up until it hits Squad's folder, where it shoots up roughly 500 Mb of RAM just for that folder alone (where a folder like AIES or VensStockRevamp take up about 100 Mb at the very most).

Since ATM does not reduce the size of .dds files it is basically useless, save for a few part mods, so I guess my question is this, is there any .dds file compressor like ATM? If not, would it be possible to copy the parts from before Squad's parts were all .dds and replace those with the .mbm files (at least the legacy parts) so they have a chance of compression via ATM?

Currently my 1.0.4 GameData folder contains a total of 1.2 GB, where my RO/RP-0 for .90 stably runs with 3.10 GB of mods, and when running the game the 1.0.4 install starts from the space center at 3.5Gb of RAM, where the .90 uses about 2.8Gb (allowing for far more things to be accomplished before the RAM limit hits).

So far I've tried 2 things, a) running in OpenGL [saves maybe 300Mb of RAM tops] and manually decreasing the RSS Textures (2K versions) by 75% in size (saving about 800Kb per file).

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully someone here will have some suggestions. I've cut so many parts out of the "extra" mods (like KW and NovaPunch together add up to a whopping 50Mb of space). Really looking forward to the game running on Unity 5, multi-threading, and a more secure 64-bit version in the next major patch(es), but I feel very limited in a game where back in 23.5 I could run a 4.2 GB GameData folder and only use 2.4 Gb of RAM.

Edited September 11, 2015 by shoe7ess
Added more breaks for easier replies

[NathanKell]

M@. Either you don't have Module Manager (unlikely), you don't have the correct current version (it's 2.6.9, get it here https://ksp.sarbian.com/jenkins/job/ModuleManager/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/ModuleManager-2.6.9.zip ), or your KSP is in a location that's protected (i.e Program Files). Move the Kerbal Space Program folder somewhere else, like C:\Games\Kerbal Space Program.

shoe7ess: The OP describes how to play in OpenGL mode. Do that and your RAM problems will be greatly diminished.

[shoe7ess]

M@. Either you don't have Module Manager (unlikely), you don't have the correct current version (it's 2.6.9, get it here https://ksp.sarbian.com/jenkins/job/ModuleManager/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/ModuleManager-2.6.9.zip ), or your KSP is in a location that's protected (i.e Program Files). Move the Kerbal Space Program folder somewhere else, like C:\Games\Kerbal Space Program.

shoe7ess: The OP describes how to play in OpenGL mode. Do that and your RAM problems will be greatly diminished.

As described in my post that was my first fix, followed by manually reducing the RSS-Texture sizes by 75%. OpenGL saved about 200-300MB total. I guess the main thing I need to know is whether or not the paths of some of the RO changes would be affected by changing the .dds textures of the squad folder to .mbm (as this contains the parts taking up the most space).

[Farix]

Which texture pack are you using, 2K, 4K, 8k?

4K is a good enough quality level and should keep the game down to 2.6MB of memory with OpenGL. If you are still running too high, switch to the 2K texture pack. If you are using Ven's run the pruner batch files to save a little more memory. (you will have to download Ven's manually to get the batch files).

Edited September 11, 2015 by Farix

[insidery]

Fixed in git now.

Thank You

[shoe7ess]

Which texture pack are you using, 2K, 4K, 8k?

4K is a good enough quality level and should keep the game down to 2.6MB of memory with OpenGL. If you are still running too high, switch to the 2K texture pack. If you are using Ven's run the pruner batch files to save a little more memory. (you will have to download Ven's manually to get the batch files).

2K (Now 1k, cut them all down by 50%), I'll have to try the pruner. This is rediculous, I don't have FASA, I don't have any of the soviet mods, and I have only the engines from KW and only the NERVA engines from NovaPunch. I don't understand how this can take up so much ram.

*Edit* I ran the pruner for capsules only and voila, an 1.5 GIGABYTES of free RAM, just from that. Only problem is, now many of parts (besides capsules) are now all black (textureless). I may un-prune and just disable the textures or trade them out for ones ATM can reduce instead, but it's a step in the right direction I suppose.

Edited September 11, 2015 by shoe7ess

[Farix]

Try a new instillation. Even at 2K textures at full-res, memory should be south of 2.6GB. Add only the required and recommended mods and see what your memory footprint is. Then add the other suggested mods from there.

[Rabada]

I wasn't sure exactly where to post this, but seeing as how I'm running a Realism Overhaul build of KSP 1.0.4 I figured here is as good a spot as any. I've found that since the switch to .dds textures, fitting in just the base mods for Realism Overhaul and RP-0 almost fills the RAM limit (assuming one is using full texture graphic option, which is basically necessary since the RSS textures look disgusting at half res).

Using GCMonitor I found that the game uses roughly 1.7 Gb of RAM upon launch, slowly adding up until it hits Squad's folder, where it shoots up roughly 500 Mb of RAM just for that folder alone (where a folder like AIES or VensStockRevamp take up about 100 Mb at the very most).

Since ATM does not reduce the size of .dds files it is basically useless, save for a few part mods, so I guess my question is this, is there any .dds file compressor like ATM? If not, would it be possible to copy the parts from before Squad's parts were all .dds and replace those with the .mbm files (at least the legacy parts) so they have a chance of compression via ATM?

Currently my 1.0.4 GameData folder contains a total of 1.2 GB, where my RO/RP-0 for .90 stably runs with 3.10 GB of mods, and when running the game the 1.0.4 install starts from the space center at 3.5Gb of RAM, where the .90 uses about 2.8Gb (allowing for far more things to be accomplished before the RAM limit hits).

So far I've tried 2 things, a) running in OpenGL [saves maybe 300Mb of RAM tops] and manually decreasing the RSS Textures (2K versions) by 75% in size (saving about 800Kb per file).

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully someone here will have some suggestions. I've cut so many parts out of the "extra" mods (like KW and NovaPunch together add up to a whopping 50Mb of space). Really looking forward to the game running on Unity 5, multi-threading, and a more secure 64-bit version in the next major patch(es), but I feel very limited in a game where back in 23.5 I could run a 4.2 GB GameData folder and only use 2.4 Gb of RAM.

Since I barely ever use IVAs, I like to delete the IVA interiors to free up about 118 MB of RAM. The interiors are stored in the GameData/Squad/Spaces folder. I delete everything inside that folder except for the Placeholder folder. Now those parts will still need an IVA, so I edit the .cfgs of all Squad's parts with an IVA to use the placeholder IVA. To do this I looked for the INTERNAL module in the .cfg and replaced it with this.

	INTERNAL
	{
		name = Placeholder
	}

Edit: This could probably be done with a module manager .cfg instead of editing Squads files directly, but I don't know how to write it.

[StoryMusgrave]

I agree. Something is amiss. My clean install with RO dependencies and most recommendations, and a few small add-ons runs 2.2GB with opengl. For RSS textures I use 8K Earth, Moon, Mars textures and the 2K for everything else. When a mission requires one/more of the others I'll bump those up too. Not sure about RP-0, but I can't see that adding THAT much.

So like Farix said, do a clean KSP install. Get RO with dependencies and the recommended, RP-0 and dependencies and see what happens.

Now, one option which you may or may not like, and can end up freeing quite a bit, is get rid of IVAs.

- - - and ninja'd. Yep IVAs can save quite a bit, especially with some other mods, just not squad.

- - - the mbm to dds switch is actually a good thing. Don't switch back. It was done for a reason, leave it that way.

MM Code

@PART
[*]:HAS[#INTERNAL
[*]]:FINAL
{
@INTERNAL
[*]
{
%name = Placeholder
}
}

Edited September 11, 2015 by StoryMusgrave

[Randazzo]

Does anybody else have issues with the Smoke FX causing stuttering? I'm having a big issue with freezing up every couple of seconds, and it clears up as I get high enough for the smoke to slow down or stop. My CPU is old but it's no slouch (Core i7 960 3.2 GHz). Given that I'm literally only on my third RO/RSS rocket and it's stuttering, I can't imagine having multiple boosters getting any better.

Is there any easy way to turn these effects down, or will I need to go config chopping?

Edited September 11, 2015 by Randazzo

[Sampa]

Felger, could you please add SSP to the OP? We are currently working on getting RO compatibility now.

[Farix]

Does anybody else have issues with the Smoke FX causing stuttering? I'm having a big issue with freezing up every couple of seconds, and it clears up as I get high enough for the smoke to slow down or stop. My CPU is old but it's no slouch (Core i7 960 3.2 GHz). Given that I'm literally only on my third RO/RSS rocket and it's stuttering, I can't imagine having multiple boosters getting any better.

Is there any easy way to turn these effects down, or will I need to go config chopping?

In my test build, I didn't notice a problem. But I have seen some streamers, especially Porter John, have issues with smokescreen. You can simply remove it and as it only adds a visual effect. Not sure why it and Real Plume are listed as required mods. They are purely visual enhancements.

[Rabada]

Does anybody else have issues with the Smoke FX causing stuttering? I'm having a big issue with freezing up every couple of seconds, and it clears up as I get high enough for the smoke to slow down or stop. My CPU is old but it's no slouch (Core i7 960 3.2 GHz). Given that I'm literally only on my third RO/RSS rocket and it's stuttering, I can't imagine having multiple boosters getting any better.

Is there any easy way to turn these effects down, or will I need to go config chopping?

Yeah Smoke FX causes stuttering for me and I'm running an overclocked 5960X.

Smoke Screen has button for the toolbar mod. (you can see it in the top left of my pic. That will bring up a menu where you can change the max number of particles that smoke screen will use. I think its set to 4000 stock. KSP ran a lot smoother after I set that to 500.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Rabada

[Randazzo]

Yeah Smoke FX causes stuttering for me and I'm running an overclocked 5960X.

Smoke Screen has button for the toolbar mod. (you can see it in the top left of my pic. That will bring up a menu where you can change the max number of particles that smoke screen will use. I think its set to 4000 stock. KSP ran a lot smoother after I set that to 500.

http://i.imgur.com/rHJFrPU.png

Excellent, thank you!

In my test build, I didn't notice a problem. But I have seen some streamers, especially Porter John, have issues with smokescreen. You can simply remove it and as it only adds a visual effect. Not sure why it and Real Plume are listed as required mods. They are purely visual enhancements.

Yeah my first impulse was just to remove that, but that would break RealPlume so I'd have to remove that, then go fix all the MM patches that reference them, bleh!

For once, there was an easier way.

[shoe7ess]

I agree. Something is amiss. My clean install with RO dependencies and most recommendations, and a few small add-ons runs 2.2GB with opengl. For RSS textures I use 8K Earth, Moon, Mars textures and the 2K for everything else. When a mission requires one/more of the others I'll bump those up too. Not sure about RP-0, but I can't see that adding THAT much.

So like Farix said, do a clean KSP install. Get RO with dependencies and the recommended, RP-0 and dependencies and see what happens.

Now, one option which you may or may not like, and can end up freeing quite a bit, is get rid of IVAs.

- - - and ninja'd. Yep IVAs can save quite a bit, especially with some other mods, just not squad.

- - - the mbm to dds switch is actually a good thing. Don't switch back. It was done for a reason, leave it that way.

MM Code

@PART
[*]:HAS[#INTERNAL
[*]]:FINAL
{
@INTERNAL
[*]
{
%name = Placeholder
}
}

Actually I ended up doing that, [replaced every texture in the Squad folder that had an .mbm or .tga older version that used the same model] I took from .90 and copied over my 1.0.4 counterparts, deleting the .dds files. Now I have all my textures (no more black textures), and it actually freed up 1GB of RAM usage. Did the same thing with the spaces, and ATM did a hell of a job reducing these textures. So it wasn't a bad idea in my part, and in fact now allows me to enjoy the game, but I have a lot of experience editing every aspect of modding for this game that I've probably spent 3x more time editing configs/creating custom textures than actually playing. Hell I've been working on getting this install working for 4 days because my world was disappearing when entering the launchpad (turned out to be Romfarer causing it somehow).

*Edit* I want to clarify that I understand why the switch was made. More data and compression is available via DDS, as well as a lower memory footprint. However, at this point, it is not nearly as optimized as it will be in future versions. It's a step in the right direction, but personally I can attest that older versions of the game could run with a lower memory footprint with many more parts/textures loaded than what is available now, and that's really all I care about in this game. If I could, I'd retrofit all current features to 0.23.5, I could fit 4 GB of mods in there and only use 2.3 Gb RAM on startup (intense ATM'ing).

*Edit 2* Now been trying to find out why KSC-Switcher that came with C-KAN didn't work, updated to latest, allows me to choose launch location, but slows framerate to a snails pace when either on the launchpad or in the tracking center. For now I'm just going to be launching from Cape Canaveral, unless my latest change (set to launch from French Guiana site), not sure if it'll keep my launch location there or not but I know it's KSC-Switcher having a conflict with something because I had no framerate issues until I tried to update it. /sigh

*Edit 3* Removed HotRockets from the GameData folder, as I think that was the last mod I added (along with the updated KSC-Switcher) when I got the performance drops in tracking station and on a launch. I also had a handful of CIT mods (mod maker abandoned it in .90) from the get-go that worked, but removed those as well just in case, so it's one of those two I believe. That or updating KSC-Switcher after you have launched at least one rocket causes a permanent save bug. Either way, hopefully this helps someone in the future.

Edited September 11, 2015 by shoe7ess
Making edits to help others who may have the same issue in the future.

[Randazzo]

Yeah Smoke FX causes stuttering for me and I'm running an overclocked 5960X.

Smoke Screen has button for the toolbar mod. (you can see it in the top left of my pic. That will bring up a menu where you can change the max number of particles that smoke screen will use. I think its set to 4000 stock. KSP ran a lot smoother after I set that to 500.

http://i.imgur.com/rHJFrPU.png

Well, mine is actually set to 8000, and keeps resetting itself back to this number at every launch. Any idea how to make it stick?

I should probably take this over to the Smokescreen thread, nevermind.

[Sharkman Briton]

Is there a way to play RO without the fuel boil-off thing? There are some things in the mod I really don't want to deal with.

--Edit--

And the no-throttle no-restart and general bad stuff? I'm not playing this for realism tbh, just so that it's possible to make viable rockets in RSS.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Sharkman Briton

[Kibble]

Is there a way to play RO without the fuel boil-off thing? There are some things in the mod I really don't want to deal with.

--Edit--

And the no-throttle no-restart and general bad stuff? I'm not playing this for realism tbh, just so that it's possible to make viable rockets in RSS.

Why don't you just play RSS without RO?

[Sharkman Briton]

Because everyone's telling me the engines are unsuited for RSS without it.