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[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

Felger

By Felger
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Does that mean there will finally be proper underexpansion effects in KSP? That would be awesome!

Yes, underexpansion, overexpansion, you name it. All based on real nozzle data, too. The plumes will also be expanding properly, according to actual thermodynamics (so not in a lineal manner, but a kind of bell shape). That does mean some exhausts (especially orbital hypergolics) will look a bit odd, but the nozzle equations are to blame for that, not me. :)

The equations have been actually used for every liquid fuel engine in the mod, which means that only SRBs have any fudged data, and even that is based on realistic assumptions.

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JT2227

JT2227

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Said it before and I'll say it again, too much speed at too low an altitude.

But go get the Deadly Reentry beta 6.3.1

Set it to Hard mode. Although it results in more overall heating, it also cuts down atmospheric density in its calculations which will help you out in the lower atmosphere. I just launched a rocket with a starting TWR 3.6 (ASL), 'hydrolox', no payload, no heat shielded nosecone and maxTemp capped at 1250. (DRE 6.2.x has it at 2500)

Sole purpose was to see what it could take before burning up and it survived its launch without burning off anything. Granted it was stock Kerbin and not RSS but I didn't feel like taking the time to switch over. Anyway, give it a try.

Too much speed? The Space shuttle ascent pattern says it's speed at 30000 meters (104,000 feet) is 2,366 MPH, or 1057 meters per second, only 100 meter/ second below what Ares was travelling at... And the Shuttle is a manned vehicle, with G force restrictions and higher safety standards...

If it's the shielding, then is their an option to shield parts so they won't explode?

Will try the new DRE

Source: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/fdf/124ascentdata.html

Edited by JT2227
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Hattivat

Hattivat

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Back in 23.5 there used to be a functioning (and immensely fun and challenging) career mode, called Realistic Progression Lite, and I believe one day there will be a functioning one again.

Yes, underexpansion, overexpansion, you name it. All based on real nozzle data, too. The plumes will also be expanding properly, according to actual thermodynamics (so not in a lineal manner, but a kind of bell shape). That does mean some exhausts (especially orbital hypergolics) will look a bit odd, but the nozzle equations are to blame for that, not me. k_smiley.gif

The equations have been actually used for every liquid fuel engine in the mod, which means that only SRBs have any fudged data, and even that is based on realistic assumptions.

This sounds amazing, can't wait to try it out :)

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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Too much speed? The Space shuttle ascent pattern says it's speed at 30000 meters (104,000 feet) is 2,366 MPH, or 1057 meters per second, only 100 meter/ second below what Ares was travelling at... And the Shuttle is a manned vehicle, with G force restrictions and higher safety standards...

If it's the shielding, then is their an option to shield parts so they won't explode?

Will try the new DRE

Source: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/fdf/124ascentdata.html

Be sure to provide feedback in the Deadly Reentry thread.

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Hattivat

Hattivat

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Depends on what kind of a mod it is. Part packs usually work fine, even several version after their last update, unless they require custom .dll files (like most of bobcat's mods do), in which case they usually don't work without an update. Utilities and other .dll-based mods usually don't work.

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Felger

Felger

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What would be rerquired if I want to help update KW and Nova configs? I'm tired of waiting for them and thought I might as well try to work on it myself

KW is actually almost done. NovaPunch hasn't even been started yet. At the moment, focusing on getting Realism Overhaul and all its supported mods compatible with CKAN, so when CKAN releases we can post the instructions for a nice easy automatic installation.

As far as what to do to get NovaPunch working, the instructions are in the OP. General summary:

  • Download the mod
  • Download all the mods NovaPunch uses (required RO mods, etc)
  • Launch the game
  • Use PartCatalog to filter only the NovaPunch parts.
  • Check the parts, make sure everything works, and has updates for Realism Overhaul (using real fuels, appropriately sized, etc)
  • Anything that's not 'right', find it in the RO_NovaPunch configs, and tinker with the config files to get it 'right'. If you have specific questions, ask on this thread.

Once you have it ready to go, shoot me or NathanKell a PM, and we'll walk you through how to submit the changes to the Realism Overhaul repository, and we'll get it in the release version.

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Guest

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OK, FASA is pretty much done, I'm ironing out the last minor issues. You wouldn't believe the amount of bugs I squashed... Most of the rockets were literally unflyable, mostly due to aerodynamic instability. Dunno who made the latest update, or how it managed to get into RO, but it's all been fixed. All real rocket configurations that you can make from FASA should now be flyable (well, except Titan 23B, but it never worked, FAR hates this kind of configuration). Also added a kOS processor to the radially attached computer. I'll soon PM the changes to you (I don't have the time to figure out GITHub, I've already spent more on fixes that I'd like).

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Guest

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OK people, the first edition of RealEffects is pretty much ready. I'm just waiting for RO update because it depends on some changes I made. I'll post a thread in addon dev once that's done.

All FASA engines except a few separation motors are supported. So far, only one flame per engine, I need an update to RF before it's possible to implement FX changing with the engine config. New sounds (from KW) added, too.

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Felger

Felger

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Thank you, now I`m gonna update my broken RO client into 0.25 version with some of KW, AIES, etc. Bless me please!

Well, on the blessing you bit, I expect to put out the next release sometime later today, including KW, RLA, and the Near Future Engines that I have configured. As far as AIES, I expect most of those will still work, since nothing's changed on those in quite some time.

Actually, if you wouldn't mind, could you verify what parts are working and which ones need fixing? That would be awesome if you could!

For anyone who's got a mind to contribute a config to Realism Overhaul, but has no idea what they're doing (or just has questions and doesn't feel like waiting for answers), feel free to join us on IRC (server: irc.esper.net, channel: #RO). I'll try my best to answer your questions if I'm around, and I'm sure NathanKell will do the same..

Finally, the OP is updated with the link to the career mode discussion thread. Please look through the thread, comment on the ideas we've already got, and contribute ideas if you've got 'em!

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ToyToy

ToyToy

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Hi ! I just installed RSS with all requiered and recomanded mods, including Realism overhaul, that's an incredible job, well done !

I just succed in launching a simple command pod with 3 Kerbals in orbit and make them do a by-pass of the Moon : that worked (with a LOT of Delta-V ! ^^) but I noticed that my fuel "leaks" out of my tanks (some types of fuel more than others). It's like in real life so no problem, but I felt like it leaks really quickly ! I understand that if I use pressurized tank there is less leak, but the only pressurized tanks I could find are the old RCS tanks (filled with corresponding fuel of course). Am I missing something or is that normal and I'm supposed to use such tanks for long mission ? For exemple if I want to go to Mars, should I just use RCS tanks ? I'm not sure if the engine I'm using or the current fuel type increase or decrease fuel leaks. I didn't find any tutorial about this, so thank you if anyone can help me !

Also, when making a good old great rocket, my engines aren't covered by the... "cover" like they should be. They're just put above the decoupler, which is not really pretty... Any idea of what's causing this ? I installed the mods normally (well, I think so)

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Lilienthal

Lilienthal

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Hi ! I just installed RSS with all requiered and recomanded mods, including Realism overhaul, that's an incredible job, well done !

I just succed in launching a simple command pod with 3 Kerbals in orbit and make them do a by-pass of the Moon : that worked (with a LOT of Delta-V ! ^^) but I noticed that my fuel "leaks" out of my tanks (some types of fuel more than others). It's like in real life so no problem, but I felt like it leaks really quickly ! I understand that if I use pressurized tank there is less leak, but the only pressurized tanks I could find are the old RCS tanks (filled with corresponding fuel of course). Am I missing something or is that normal and I'm supposed to use such tanks for long mission ? For exemple if I want to go to Mars, should I just use RCS tanks ? I'm not sure if the engine I'm using or the current fuel type increase or decrease fuel leaks. I didn't find any tutorial about this, so thank you if anyone can help me !

Also, when making a good old great rocket, my engines aren't covered by the... "cover" like they should be. They're just put above the decoupler, which is not really pretty... Any idea of what's causing this ? I installed the mods normally (well, I think so)

The boil-off ("leak") of fuel depends on the type of fuel (LOH is the worst), the temperature of the tank (can be lowered with the thermal fins) and whether the tank is crogenic or not. Pressurized doesn't have anything to do with it.

pressurized tanks are important for some engines, and don't have problems with ullage. Use procedural tanks set to "service module" type and you should be happy. For long-distance trips, it is usually advisable to take fuels that do not boil off, e.g. Aerozine + NTO.

The "covers" are disabled on purpose. (I don't exactly know why, but afaik, that is intented behaviour.)

PS: Have fun, RO/RSS is great!

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andqui

andqui

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Hi ! I just installed RSS with all requiered and recomanded mods, including Realism overhaul, that's an incredible job, well done !

I just succed in launching a simple command pod with 3 Kerbals in orbit and make them do a by-pass of the Moon : that worked (with a LOT of Delta-V ! ^^) but I noticed that my fuel "leaks" out of my tanks (some types of fuel more than others). It's like in real life so no problem, but I felt like it leaks really quickly ! I understand that if I use pressurized tank there is less leak, but the only pressurized tanks I could find are the old RCS tanks (filled with corresponding fuel of course). Am I missing something or is that normal and I'm supposed to use such tanks for long mission ? For exemple if I want to go to Mars, should I just use RCS tanks ? I'm not sure if the engine I'm using or the current fuel type increase or decrease fuel leaks. I didn't find any tutorial about this, so thank you if anyone can help me !

The "leak" is actually volatile fuels boiling off. So any mode of propulusion that relies on fuels that need to be cooled (liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen) is a bad idea for any long-duration mission. Insulated tanks will help a bit, and will reduce the boil-off to an extent, but unless you're going to be using the fuel within a few days of launch, use non-volatile hypergolic fuels instead. They're less efficient, but don't boil/leak away.

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NathanKell

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Thanks! :)

It's not a question of pressurization; *all* tanks are pressure vessels, but pressure-fed engines require highly-pressurized tanks.

What you're talking about is boiloff. Many rocket propellants are cryogenic, which means essentially they need to be kept very cold. For liquid oxygen (a "mildly cryogenic" oxidizer) that means -178 Celsius. For Liquid Hydrogen ("cryogenic", and a very good fuel) that means -259C. As you can imagine, that's very hard to do with the sun heating it, so over time the liquid gets too hot and boils (turns to gas). That gas must be vented in order for the tank to not explode, and the loss due to venting is called boiloff.

Some propellants, however, commonly called storables (because they are storable at room temperature) are not subject to boiloff. These propellants are usually chosen to be hypergolic (the fuel and oxidizer burn on contact, they don't need to be ignited). Also, for simplicity and reliability (especially when multiple ignitions are desired), the engines that use them are often pressure-fed. However, storable propellants usually have much lower performance than others, and are poor choices for LVs or departure stages, only coming to their own for long-duration missions (i.e. Saturn V was kerosene+LOX and liquid hydrogen+LOX, but the propellants used by the Apollo stack were all storable hypergolics).

Can you post a screenshot to show the problem in your third paragraph?

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ThorBeorn

ThorBeorn

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Hi ! I just installed RSS with all requiered and recomanded mods, including Realism overhaul, that's an incredible job, well done !

I just succed in launching a simple command pod with 3 Kerbals in orbit and make them do a by-pass of the Moon : that worked (with a LOT of Delta-V ! ^^) but I noticed that my fuel "leaks" out of my tanks (some types of fuel more than others). It's like in real life so no problem, but I felt like it leaks really quickly ! I understand that if I use pressurized tank there is less leak, but the only pressurized tanks I could find are the old RCS tanks (filled with corresponding fuel of course). Am I missing something or is that normal and I'm supposed to use such tanks for long mission ? For exemple if I want to go to Mars, should I just use RCS tanks ?...

Use Procedural Parts for tanks. Tanks can then be switched to "cryogenic" which minimizes boil-off. You can also attach thermal fins (they come with Real Fuels I believe) to a tank to decrease boil-off even more. However(!), cryogenic fuels (liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen mostly) are not well suited for very long missions, like going to mars for example. Use hypergolic propellants for that instead, such as NTO+hydrazine.

Also, when making a good old great rocket, my engines aren't covered by the... "cover" like they should be. They're just put above the decoupler, which is not really pretty... Any idea of what's causing this ? I installed the mods normally (well, I think so)

The cover you are talking about is called a fairing and the creators of RO has chosen to get rid of many autofarings that come with a lot of engines. You can make much better looking fairings using the "fairing interstage" part plus fairing walls from Procedural Fairings. Attach the upper stage to the top node, make necessary adjustments to height, diameter etc, check your staging and you are good to go.

Edit: Freakin' triple ninjad!

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ToyToy

ToyToy

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First, thank you to all of you, you made my evening ! ;)

I'll keep in mind everything you told me about fuels, that's great, that's adding a whole new perspective to the game !

I knew the word fairing, but I didn't know that it was used too for the "engine cover" xD I'll use procedural fairing interstage part to make them, if it's not a bug ;)

Thank you again and good night if you're on the east side of the atlantic !

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Felger

Felger

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New version posted!

Changelog:

v7.0.0 -- \/

*KW Rocketry is now supported. Courtesy of RedAV8R

*FASA configs updated to remove fins, and adjust CoM. Courtesy of Dragon01

*DMagic Orbital Sciences is now supported. Courtesy of Aspirin4o

*RLA Stockalike is now supported.

*Near Future Engines are now supported.

*Orbit Manipulator for Time Warp Ion engines is now supported for the Near Future Engines and all Ion Engines which use typical fuels.

*All physicsless parts now obey the rules of the universe (Physics is on)

*Temperature limit for all parts is now 800, unless specified otherwise.

I make no claims to perfection, so if I missed anything or something doesn't work right let me know, or even better: fix it and submit it to the repo (I'll be forever in your debt!).

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