Should RemoteTech be in final version of game?

[Tux]

Or...what mods should be in final version of the game.

I am just learning Remote Tech and it frightens me. Its hard.

[Kamuchi]

No.

RT is easy when you get the hang of it, but all realistic mods shouldn`t be made standard for the simple reason that it will not be fun to play as they will get way to frustrated while trying to even learn the basic stuff.

Imagine you had life support, deadly reentry and remotetech installed while knowing nothing as a newbie, maybe some fun at the start watching blow up, but you will quit soon after out of sheer frustration.

[Tux]

No.

RT is easy when you get the hang of it, but all realistic mods shouldn`t be made standard for the simple reason that it will not be fun to play as they will get way to frustrated while trying to even learn the basic stuff.

Imagine you had life support, deadly reentry and remotetech installed while knowing nothing as a newbie, maybe some fun at the start watching blow up, but you will quit soon after out of sheer frustration.

I am thinking maybe difficultly mode

easy, medium, hard, custom.

but yeah..the standard game by itself is going to frustrate a lot of people even.

[Tux]

but...for remotetech to work well it assumes a lot of other mods so that could get complicated

[LaytheAerospace]

I'd love it if there were toggles for a lot of these difficulty mods, like re-entry heating, remote tech and things like that. It's clear that a lot of people really enjoy this kind of stuff, but it's also pretty clear that a lot of people aren't looking for that kind of challenge. This would normally seem like the perfect territory for mods, but given just how many people want this, it makes sense to put it as an option in stock.

[Renegrade]

RT is easy when you get the hang of it, but all realistic mods shouldn`t be made standard for the simple reason that it will not be fun to play as they will get way to frustrated while trying to even learn the basic stuff.

Imagine you had life support, deadly reentry and remotetech installed while knowing nothing as a newbie, maybe some fun at the start watching blow up, but you will quit soon after out of sheer frustration.

I think you'd find that the vast majority of players are already like that. Blow up some stuff, giggle, and move on to whatever other shiny distraction happens next. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that 95% of the players that pick up the game don't get past sub-orbital flights.

(Note that people posting here are most likely largely in that last 5%)

That being said, while RemoteTech is fun, I don't think it brings enough to the table to warrant inclusion in the base game. The way it exists now, as a mod, is probably the ideal situation.

Also, once you've mastered the basics of RT, it's not all that hard, just tedious.

[kStrout]

Maybe, I get confused sometimes as to how remotech works, leading to.. issues. There are some revisions I would make if I was to add RM to the stock game.

[OgreMagi]

I think you'd find that the vast majority of players are already like that. Blow up some stuff, giggle, and move on to whatever other shiny distraction happens next. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that 95% of the players that pick up the game don't get past sub-orbital flights.

(Note that people posting here are most likely largely in that last 5%)

That being said, while RemoteTech is fun, I don't think it brings enough to the table to warrant inclusion in the base game. The way it exists now, as a mod, is probably the ideal situation.

Also, once you've mastered the basics of RT, it's not all that hard, just tedious.

I have to agree, a siginificant number of players buy the game for the explosions and to play around, its was a 19.99 game when I bought it but it has so much you can play. I would keep the sand box and science mods as is tweak the carrier modes, its a little easy to win even on hard mod, and add other mods as an option or even an expansion to the basic game.

[Broax]

I'm not 100% sure on all the realism mods... I use DR, RT, NEAR and life support but from those the only two I'd definetly put in the stock game would be NEAR (or FAR) and Deadly Reentry...

Both would obviously be optional as the game is a bit intimidating to new players... Everything else I think would be too much of a task to develop and would frighten most players IMO..

[Artophwar]

I would be firmly on the no side. Remote tech is to complicated for the stock game and should stay as a mod. Better aerodynamics and deadly reentry are something Squad has said they would add and both of those are actually simple compared to what you have to do for Remote tech. Those two features just change the way you fly and reenter. If someone begins playing with them when they are stock they wont know the difference and just play the game as people play it now accepting the new rules as the way to play. You could still have checkboxes for reentry heat or not. With remote tech you have to actively set up your communications networks and it really just becomes a chore for most people.

[zekes]

good question. I think it would be interesting, but it doesn't quite fit with the kerbal feel of independent ships. AS Artophwar said, it's too complex.

[Zylark]

As others have mentioned, RT soon become tedious. Played with it in my previous career - for my new career RT is out and instead I've included the Antenna Range mod which whilst not as comprehensive as RT, do give incentive for using a variety of antennas for various use. Much simpler, no need to put into place a plethora of communication satellites.

Now, what I'd like to see in the game as stock to up the challenge a bit, is something akin to TAC Life Support. Doesn't add all that much complexity to the game, but do introduce a few features. From the simple - Kerbals can't live without snacks, soda-pops and air to breathe - to the more complex by recycling waste and even through in-situ resource utilization (with even more mods for the time being), close the life support loop and make far away stations and colonies self-sufficient.

Also, Kerbal Alarm clock, make it stock.

[Mecripp]

RT is a great mod but, IMO AntennaRange http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56440-0-25-AntennaRange-1-5-Enforce-and-Encourage-Antenna-Diversity as a better chance at be coming stock before RT.

[archont]

Or...what mods should be in final version of the game.

I am just learning Remote Tech and it frightens me. Its hard.

No, remotetech has a low ratio of meaningful gameplay to tediousness. Some ideas are worthwhile, like the requirement to have antennas on unmanned ships and a differentiation of antennas more meaningful than the insignificant broadcast duration.

---

The idea of life support is great, because it also creates depth as far the manned vs unmanned choice is concerned. TACLS introduces three resources but doesn't do anything to differentiate them, or in fact balance them. A simple fun life support system would have two resources:

1) Short-term LS: ("air")

bulky, easy to recycle, primary concern for small, short missions

2) Long-term LS ("food")

less bulky, requires plenty of infrastructure to recycle, primary concern for big, long-range missions

Snacks is an interesting twist, but by making itself optional by design, the additional difficulty becomes optional as well. Don't like it.

---

Karbonite/Kethane/MKS/other ISRU mods/Orbital Workshop

Those mods are basically a prototype of the mid/late game. The way I see the end-game, it's building an orbital drydock and assembling a mothership in orbit, homeworld style, then sending it off to another solar system. Squad needs to do some work on proper base and large-scale logistics before that can happen, though.

[longbyte1]

RemoteTech should remain a mod because it adds optional functionality to the game. Not everyone wants RemoteTech, and it might detract from Squad's beliefs in what KSP gameplay should be like.

[prophet_01]

As much as I like the mod (and use it). It's simply way too complicated for the stock game. I would like it to be the way it is and instead contracts for putting up satelites (that don't do anything, except looking like satelites) and maybe a follow up mission with a probe or rover. The main point people like RT is because it introduces a mechanic that forces you to an additional kind of craft (satelite) and introduces new mission profiles (putting rather small payload at specific orbits). It offers another more central role for small and medium ssto's and shuttles. At least those are the reasons why I like to have it. As it's already been mentioned, the core mechanic gets rather tedious (I'd say even repetetive). Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome mod nevertheless

[Kegereneku]

I have never played with Remotetech but I understand if Line of sight is required and getting a signal is as complicated than IRL... that RT would certainly be tedious (putting all those constellation of satellite although KSP cannot auto-correct their orbit after long Timewarp).

However we need an use, a better use of KSP's stock antennas (as with many thing I like to think they were placeholder), so maybe the right discussion would be "what to do with the stock antennas ?"

The AntennaRange mods discussed earlier seem like a minimum feature (and I don't think we need to add much more).

Myself I wouldn't mind if antenna gameplay were limited to :

- Needing antenna to transmit & optionally control probes

- Needing the right antenna for the right range

- Other non-focused vehicle being able to act as relay (auto-assuming they have the power required for simplification)

aside the optional "control probes" it should be fairly easy.

- You don't need to worry about line of sight

- You need power to keep control of probes, making RTG very interesting at night (or far from the sun where solar energy diminish).

- You have incentive to send satellite with larger antenna so you can use smaller antenna on landing probes/rover.

[Minarkhaios]

Maybe it would be better accepted with a small modification to RT : kerbin does not need line of sight from the ksc to broadcast.

This is the main problem I have with RT. Having a comsat to communicate with a lander on mun is ok, but having a full constellation around kerbin just to be able to communicate "at night' is not.

Smallish change, huge impact.

[NWM]

Definitely YES!

I think there should be reasonable difficulty leveling then the "simpleminded" gain/cost modifiers.

The difficulty should be challenging by the difficulties, and not sucking of lack of resources.

The dificulty leveling is quite possible by this way:

None/ +Antenna range/ +Antenna visibility/ +Transmission delay/ +Visibility cone depending on dishes orientation

If someone plays for the explosions, there is the None option for them.

similarly with the heat:

None/ +environmental/ +atmospheric entry

Life support:

None/ +O2/CO2/ +temperature (electricity)/ +water/ +food/ +entertainment

There is many leveling opportunity!

Please, I know the majority of the world's gamers are "simple", but almost all of the game are for them - make a game where the human mind can have some kind of gymnastic with the solving of difficulties, and not the nerves are overused by the "AI's" cheating as "difficulty leveling"!

Edited November 18, 2014 by NWM

[John FX]

Too many flights if you want a robust network. Lowers FPS too much.

I like RT but I always end up removing it.

[xtoro]

No.

I like RT. I used it for a while and it was fun, but then it wore off and started to get in the way of the gameplay that I enjoy. I'll probably use it again in the future for fun, but I don't think I'd like it if it was part of the core game.

[Capt Snuggler]

I Would like some kind of remotetech like system for communication and probe control.

note I say remotetech LIKE. if it were introduced to the stock game I would expect squad to make it neater and more intuitive.

a system where probes require a communication link would help with balance, as there is little difference between kerbals and probes right now. this would be one step (of many) to fleshing out the different roles kerbals and probes play in the game.

In regard to the tediousness of setting up multiple satellite links, the signal range could be linked to power consumption rate. launching one or two mega com sats could be an alternative to launching several small ones.

the game needs more reasons to launch satellites and need to do more to encourage thought, planning and clever design making the payer feel smart, happy and eager to play and learn more.

[CaptainKipard]

I vote yes to this and to any other mechanic that justifies various craft types.

[Tuareg]

I vote yes to this and to any other mechanic that justifies various craft types.

^^ this. if there are parts, give them a reason. atm there isnt really for many of them... especially if u play sandbox.

[Alshain]

No. It's tedious and not fun. Nothing but micromanagement.