.

[ZetaX]

Ill leave a link to his controversial paper just in case

It's as "controversial" as the claim that "the moon is blue and everyone who says otherwise is just trying to hide the truth or even lying to themselves".

[OrbitusII]

I have no idea what this guy is trying to sell, say, or explain. He mentions "magrav" technology, but I think I lost brain cells listening to his explanation. This is basically what I got out of that video:

"Oh look, some guy did some physics, another guy did some mathematics, and a third guy did something with torque and Einstein. Guess what all of these mean. That's right, some mystical technology that will blow away everything else! It's basically magic, but those three very loosely related people and their research proves that it's actually science, especially because Einstein is involved!"

Terrible attempt to sell something that A) doesn't exist, hasn't been explained or in all likelihood hasn't even been theorized, and C) is probably too good to be true, even if there were theories about it. Honestly, an actual salesman could sell me 200 kilos of lard better than this guy can sell this myth (I wouldn't buy the lard anyhow, but I'd at least consider it).

This is of course overlooking how unprofessional his presentation was. Putting together multiple takes of him saying hello for the intro? "Bigass beard" and "like a boss?" I can't take him seriously.

Edited November 21, 2014 by OrbitusII

[Z-Man]

Ill leave a link to his controversial paper just in case

http://hiup.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AIP_CP_SProton_Haramein.pdf

Ah! The discrepancy in the calculation I pointed out is only a result of very poor rounding for the presentation. 9.66*10^-39 is apparently best approximated to 10^-39. Oh well. Still, it's numerology, especially given that both the unrenormalized vacuum energy density and mass of the (observable?) universe can differ a lot depending on how you calculate them.

The other coincidences pointed out in the paper are, I'm afraid, normal. Orbital speeds near a black hole are close to the speed of light by nature. The proton radius is naturally closely related to the typical times the strong force acts under. And so on.

Perhaps we should concentrate on Figure 1? It certainly looks the most impressive. First, we isolate three data points.

1. The lowest one, the Planck mass and length. By definition, the Planck length is about the Schwarzschild radius of a black hole with Plack mass.

2. The Schwarzschild proton. Again, by its definition, the radius is the Schwarzschild radius corresponding to its mass.

3. The universe. As we know, it has pretty close to critical density, give or take a factor you won't see on such a log-log plot. That, too, means its (observable) radius is close to the Schwarzschild radius corresponding to its (observable) mass.

That those three would fall on a line is no coincidence. The Schwarzschild radius is proportional to the mass. That proportionality line would be the true significant line to draw in the plot, and it's not mysterious at all. All the other data points are below that true line because they are not black holes, sometimes missing by ten orders of magnitude. The log-log plot best fit line hides such vast discrepancies. What he really discovered is that noting can be more massive than a black hole of the same size, most things are not black holes, and those structures big enough to be noticed can come relatively close.

Two more things about the plot. Note that the two galaxy cluster points and the universe also seem to lie on a line with a much larger slope. Again, no coincidence, that are the scales where the almost uniform density of the universe starts to kick in. But it does not fit into his unified scaling law, so it is ignored.

Missing from the plot, things he included in the other plot from the video (the one that's not in the paper, about the relation between object size and typical frequency): living things. That's because they'd be way, way below the line. As would be planets, nebulae, red supergiants or star clusters. Ok, I give him the nebulae, they are clearly unusual enough to drop, but the others? No, there's no a priori reason.

[hazarada]

Pft, I made that technology obsolete when I was like 9. Basically, all you need is a pipe and an ocean.

You put the pipe into the water and push it just the right way. Then what happens is that water enters one side of the pipe and because of the incompressability of water, it forces its way out the other side creating propulsion. That causes more water to enter the pipe and thus, more will be forced out from the other end, free energy right there! Then you harness it by attaching a little propeller in the pipe to capture some of the free energy flowing through the pipe and use it to move a dynamo. Thats how submarines really work but the government keeps it a secret and says its "nuclear" or "diesel".. lol, I've never seen any nuclear or diesel fuel.

[Superfluous J]

Pft, I made that technology obsolete when I was like 9. Basically, all you need is a pipe and an ocean.

You put the pipe into the water and push it just the right way. Then what happens is that water enters one side of the pipe and because of the incompressability of water, it forces its way out the other side creating propulsion. That causes more water to enter the pipe and thus, more will be forced out from the other end, free energy right there! Then you harness it by attaching a little propeller in the pipe to capture some of the free energy flowing through the pipe and use it to move a dynamo. Thats how submarines really work but the government keeps it a secret and says its "nuclear" or "diesel".. lol, I've never seen any nuclear or diesel fuel.

I did something similar with my car. I mounted little windmills all over it to harness the wind energy from driving to power the car. Stupid gas companies don't got nothing on me!

[magnemoe]

Can you imagine how rich a corporation would get if they had a source of infinite free energy? They'd basically own the entire economy. Why would they bury it and try to sell some guns, or whatever it is you're trying to say?

Can you imagine how interesting this will be for lots of countries?

China, Israel, Japan, Germany, France and Korea comes to mind first.

Unlike companies the two first in the list has no issues going over bodies if vital national interests in on stake.

The rest would not kill for it but they would buy from anybody, and no you can not patent it as many will just copy anyway.

[Superfluous J]

Can you imagine how interesting this will be for lots of countries?

China, Israel, Japan, Germany, France and Korea comes to mind first.

Unlike companies the two first in the list has no issues going over bodies if vital national interests in on stake.

The rest would not kill for it but they would buy from anybody, and no you can not patent it as many will just copy anyway.

So why hasn't this guy been abducted by North Koreans yet?

[meve12]

Oh really? If that is so dumb (maybe it is) it should be very easy to prove him wrong right? But then why can't they?

He doesn't mean that; he means it's too caustic for the swearword filter.

And it's a bit difficult to disprove something woven from whole cloth, so to speak.

EDIT:To demonstrate my first point: this is a crock of .....

Edited November 22, 2014 by meve12

[*Aqua*]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it's just a hoax to test if people fall for it.

I mean, look at that guy in the video. He's obviously talking nonsense and his acting is ridiculous. I bet they just want to test how much exaggeration people accept before they become suspicious. A social study of some sort.

[K^2]

He's even talking about generating an artificial gravitational field. There is no such thing (yet).

Sure there is. It's called a centrifuge.

The whole thing is industrial quality bull****, though. From the whole video, the only factually correct statements were about Faraday, Maxwell, and the twist terms in Einstein Field Equations. The later, however, are not actually responsible for spin, despite sharing some qualities. And even that, essentially, is due to the fact that both spin and twist terms arise from non-Abelian gauge theory. While electrodynamics and gravity are due to Abelian gauges. Long story short, saying that twist terms are responsible for spin because they share qualities is just as misguided as saying that electromagnetism is the cause of gravity, because the two are similar. Though, there are certain individuals who don't seem to know better. *cough*

Anyhow, the "secret" to manipulating gravity is the same as that for manipulating electromagnetic fields. And that's neutral currents. The reason electric motors work is because we can push a lot of current through a neutral wire. If you can give me a (nearly) massless wire that can carry through it a few billion tons of mass per second, I can build you a gravity generator out of a motorcycle engine. Unfortunately, this comes down to needing exotic matter with negative mass, which is the same requirement as warp drives and stable wormholes. There are some hints of these things being possible, and hopefully, we'll get there eventually, but revelation for something like that won't come from a cheap YouTube video that wasn't even dubbed properly.

[Tex_NL]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it's just a hoax to test if people fall for it.

I mean, look at that guy in the video. He's obviously talking nonsense and his acting is ridiculous. I bet they just want to test how much exaggeration people accept before they become suspicious. A social study of some sort.

My feelings go a bit beyond a simple social study. I lean towards a blatant money scam.

At the end of the clip he asks you to subscribe, to join them to learn more. Then they'll most likely ask you to pays for 'educational materials' and once you've paid that's probably the last you'll ever hear from them.

[Hary R]

Sure there is. It's called a centrifuge.

The whole thing is industrial quality bull****, though. From the whole video, the only factually correct statements were about Faraday, Maxwell, and the twist terms in Einstein Field Equations. The later, however, are not actually responsible for spin, despite sharing some qualities. And even that, essentially, is due to the fact that both spin and twist terms arise from non-Abelian gauge theory. While electrodynamics and gravity are due to Abelian gauges. Long story short, saying that twist terms are responsible for spin because they share qualities is just as misguided as saying that electromagnetism is the cause of gravity, because the two are similar. Though, there are certain individuals who don't seem to know better. *cough*

Anyhow, the "secret" to manipulating gravity is the same as that for manipulating electromagnetic fields. And that's neutral currents. The reason electric motors work is because we can push a lot of current through a neutral wire. If you can give me a (nearly) massless wire that can carry through it a few billion tons of mass per second, I can build you a gravity generator out of a motorcycle engine. Unfortunately, this comes down to needing exotic matter with negative mass, which is the same requirement as warp drives and stable wormholes. There are some hints of these things being possible, and hopefully, we'll get there eventually, but revelation for something like that won't come from a cheap YouTube video that wasn't even dubbed properly.

Wait, you are telling us that IF we find a way to master the "fable" negative mass exotic matter, not only will we be able to finally create the warp drive but also some kind of gravity generator?

[K^2]

Wait, you are telling us that IF we find a way to master the "fable" negative mass exotic matter, not only will we be able to finally create the warp drive but also some kind of gravity generator?

Yeah. It's basically the modern equivalent of a philosopher's stone. Perhaps destined for the same fate. But I'm sure we'll at least stumble on something else that is no less useful along the way.

[PakledHostage]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it's just a hoax to test if people fall for it.

Off topic but peripherally related because it illustrates something about conspiracy theories like those being discussed in this thread is the French "documentary" Dark side of the moon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26EicKfNYPg

Edited November 22, 2014 by PakledHostage

[KSK]

This thread should be moved to the Space Lounge - it certainly has no place in the Science forum.

[How2FoldSoup]

I wasn't going to reply to this thread but I watched the video. What a load of BS. Can mods lock this thread or move it out of the science labs? A high school student can disprove some of his claims which makes the whole concept incorrect.

Oh really? If that is so dumb (maybe it is) it should be very easy to prove him wrong right? But then why can't they?

Here's another link to Washington university works on "magnetospheric" plasma propulsion wich is related to current Keshe foundation works

http://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/M2P2/

they describe it as so:

Please cite incorrectly harder. You can't cite something and intentionally remove how they state it works to serve as ass backwards evidence for your claims. They say it works by creating a large magnetic field to use like a sail that catches the solar wind for propulsion.

"Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion (M2P2) is an advanced plasma propulsion system that will enable spacecraft to attain unprecedented speeds, with minimal energy and mass requirements. It will create a large scale magnetic bubble around the spacecraft to ride the solar winds, and accelerate the spacecraft to unprecedented speeds. "

Is the true citation.

If you want to change the mind of myself and everyone else, go build an anti-gravity generator. If it's possible it shouldn't be that difficult right? I'll be waiting.

[KerikBalm]

Oh god, they used that "vortex" animation for the planets revolving around the sun...

Please please please let this be a spoof or mockery... if they are serious.... I must lose faith in humanity

[Aningaaq]

Oh god, they used that "vortex" animation for the planets revolving around the sun...

Please please please let this be a spoof or mockery... if they are serious.... I must lose faith in humanity

This is very real. A lot of support for this guy if you visit his facebook page. (the scientist who inspired this video)

[ZetaX]

Please do not call such people "scientists".

[zxczxczbfg]

The geometrical demonstration is coherent (mathematically), you take a circle with finite surface and puts 2 triangle inside like a star of david, then go 1 scale smaller, draw 6 circles inside, and repeat the process, you get infinite amount of information inside a finite surface.

The idea for physics is that instead of looking for the smallest particle (accelerators) we should find the initial pattern of division of space, the thing that connect all things in the universe(s).

The nature of infinite anything simply cannot be harnessed by any sort of device, because we don't have mathematics capable of designing devices to deal with it. Part of why perpetual motion is such a transparent sham; if your little device contains infinite energy, how the heck is it stored? To contain infinite triangles inside a circle, you'd need a printer with infinite resolution, and also a scanning device with infinite precision, and some kind of processor capable of handling infinite input. You'd also have to be cramming information into a very small space for an infinite amount of time, and entropy ensures that will never happen.

To quote XKCD:

http://xkcd.com/675/

Edited November 23, 2014 by zxczxczbfg

[TMS]

That video was sheer babble.

Also...

[Drunken Hobo]

It was hilarious at the start, but I began to lose interest when it went full pseudoscience. Just broke down into an incoherent babble (exactly the right word, TMS).

[Atomictonto]

It was hilarious at the start, but I began to lose interest when it went full pseudoscience. Just broke down into an incoherent babble (exactly the right word, TMS).

I'm not a scientist but an expert in communication with a twist for technology and phisics.

My two cents are that if the substance of what this guy in the video is saying was true he would not need all the theatrics. The gestures are all carefully studied to distract the viewer and lure him into a "guru/evolved" aura to make him feel somewhat in awe in front of a "revelation".

More or less what most magicians do on stage.

For business purposes I've witnessed dozens of meetings with prominent scientists explaining and demonstrating various phenomena and technologies in the electronics/phisics spectrum (and I'm talking CERN and major aerospace development level...) and these people simply talk facts, show formulas and slides with no theatrics at all, basically they are mostly very boring, and the only guys who used any theatrics were me and a collegue of mine: we were the MARKETING guys :-)

[RainDreamer]

Did this thread get revived using Magrav technology?

I think it is pretty clear that this stuff is all fluff anyway. He got a lot of skill for dramatic flair and presentation though, the guy in the video.

[Leszek]

Well before this necro thread gets locked. I am surprised that more wasn't said about this:

"It doesn't seem to exist mostly because it's kept hidden from the mainstream, because multinational corporations need WW3 to expand, not give access to everyone free energy. "

Really, WW3 to expand. That should be a full and complete stop. No one needs WW3 to expand. WW3 is very likely to result in human extinction. That includes all the people in "multinational corporations." Any conspiracy theory that depends on WW3 to happen has to be based on suicidal conspirators or you can disregard it out of hand.

Someone else already did point out that "free energy" would be an instant cash cow to any multinational corporation so I am not going to touch that part.