Gyro for stabilization only?

[SpaceMouse]

Hello, wondering if anyone knows of a setting that un-links gyro control from the main directional controls. I've been playing with gyro's on vehicles to do various intresting things, and it never really works right because its trying to rotate the whole thing instead of just keeping it stable. Thanks.

[sal_vager]

Only thing I can think of is turning them off and on again...

[SpaceMouse]

I'm expecting I'm probably going to have to stop being lazy and write a plugin. i figure it would be a good place to start anyway. Curious if anyone knows another way though.

[sal_vager]

SAS used to turn off when in docking/rotation mode, and back on for docking/translation mode, but players said that was weird and it was changed.

I really liked that feature :/

[LethalDose]

SAS used to turn off when in docking/rotation mode, and back on for docking/translation mode, but players said that was weird and it was changed.

I really liked that feature :/

What was the purpose of this? It seems opposite of what I would want: I think SAS would be on in rotation mode and off in translation mode, and then only for RCS rotation. I would want gyros to be active to maintain attitude during docking to reduce small attitude changes from slightly off CoM translation jets.

[sal_vager]

Well, with SAS off in rotation mode you could still use the reaction wheel torque to turn, or RCS if you wanted, and SAS wouldn't fight you.

Then just press space to switch to translation mode to re-enable SAS automatically, and it'd steady your craft while you tried to translate

But SAS isn't reaction wheels, it just makes use of them, Spacemouse wants the controls to not operate the reaction wheels, and instead to have constant dampening (If I understand you correctly Spacemouse).

Not currently possible in stock unfortunately.

[Superfluous J]

I wish you could turn SAS on and off for both major systems independently. I'd personally love to be able to have SAS only use reaction wheels and not spurt monoprop everywhere when I'm trying to dock.

While we're at it, I'd like to be able to only use monoprop for translating if I so choose.

[tetryds]

I wish you could turn SAS on and off for both major systems independently. I'd personally love to be able to have SAS only use reaction wheels and not spurt monoprop everywhere when I'm trying to dock.

While we're at it, I'd like to be able to only use monoprop for translating if I so choose.

Yes, I would like to be able to only use monoprop for translation too.

[sal_vager]

Reaction wheels can also be disabled if you want to use RCS exclusively in space, and tetryds, if you can make your reaction wheels translate your craft you'd not need any fuel at all

[tetryds]

Reaction wheels can also be disabled if you want to use RCS exclusively in space, and tetryds, if you can make your reaction wheels translate your craft you'd not need any fuel at all

While that is very possible on KSP, I misphrased it, what I meant was that I would want to only use RCS for translation, and not for rotation, haha.

[sal_vager]

When RCS is active use the IJKL HN keys, or docking mode/translate and the EVA controls.

[LordFerret]

I find it annoying when SAS is fighting me... but that's only my fault for forgetting to turn it off. I always manage to forget about the IJKL HN keys, and just toggle modes instead - force of habit now.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this (most annoying feature); Your ship is out in space, a big monstrosity, and in maneuvering about and setting your course, you do your best to manually null-out any further additional pitch/yaw ... SAS on ... but SAS sits there ENDLESSLY wagging your craft back and forth, never settling down into 'position'... in essence, doing it's best to burn off as much of my RCS as it can. Shouldn't it NOT be doing that? Isn't that the whole purpose of SAS/ASAS's existence?!? grrrrr!

[SpaceMouse]

Reaction wheels can also be disabled if you want to use RCS exclusively in space, and tetryds, if you can make your reaction wheels translate your craft you'd not need any fuel at all

I know RCS would work, but i was trying to not need to carry around fuel on my weird little balancing creations.

[worir4]

I can't get the voice on the XR-2 in Orbiter out of my head. "Translation *BEEP* Rotation *BEEP*"

[Jouni]

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this (most annoying feature); Your ship is out in space, a big monstrosity, and in maneuvering about and setting your course, you do your best to manually null-out any further additional pitch/yaw ... SAS on ... but SAS sits there ENDLESSLY wagging your craft back and forth, never settling down into 'position'... in essence, doing it's best to burn off as much of my RCS as it can. Shouldn't it NOT be doing that? Isn't that the whole purpose of SAS/ASAS's existence?!? grrrrr!

This can happen, if the ship is not rigid enough. The SAS algorithms used in KSP are quite simple, and they seem to assume a perfectly rigid ship. If you have a large ship, it often helps to turn SAS off for a moment when it's about to change the direction of rotation. Stabilizing wobbly ships is much harder, as the parts of the ship may be in different phases of oscillation.

[Red Iron Crown]

I also wish that RCS could be used for translation while remaining inactive for attitude, without toggling the R key constantly. No need to waste monoprop turning when the vessel has sufficient reaction wheels. Right now I have to use MechJeb for this functionality.

For that matter, just have the RCS translation keys always active and use R to toggle RCS attitude control.

[AlexinTokyo]

For that matter, just have the RCS translation keys always active and use R to toggle RCS attitude control.

On the off chance that one of the devs is reading this, I'm going to flag this as an exceptionally good idea that they want to implement in stock.

[xtoro]

I find it annoying when SAS is fighting me... but that's only my fault for forgetting to turn it off. I always manage to forget about the IJKL HN keys, and just toggle modes instead - force of habit now.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this (most annoying feature); Your ship is out in space, a big monstrosity, and in maneuvering about and setting your course, you do your best to manually null-out any further additional pitch/yaw ... SAS on ... but SAS sits there ENDLESSLY wagging your craft back and forth, never settling down into 'position'... in essence, doing it's best to burn off as much of my RCS as it can. Shouldn't it NOT be doing that? Isn't that the whole purpose of SAS/ASAS's existence?!? grrrrr!

What makes your problem worse is when the pod or probe that you're controlling from is far from your center of mass and has many wobbly parts in between. So your SAS is using that as its reference point. So your pod is swinging around one way at a different speed than the main mass of your ship. You can make it much more steady by either strutting it to death, or the easy way is to place a probe core attached to the heaviest part of your ship near the center of mass. Just make sure it's pointing in the right direction.

[LordFerret]

What makes your problem worse is when the pod or probe that you're controlling from is far from your center of mass and has many wobbly parts in between. So your SAS is using that as its reference point. So your pod is swinging around one way at a different speed than the main mass of your ship. You can make it much more steady by either strutting it to death, or the easy way is to place a probe core attached to the heaviest part of your ship near the center of mass. Just make sure it's pointing in the right direction.

I'll have to try the probe core/center-of-mass suggestion. I use plenty of struts during construction, no doubt about that. It's not that my ship 'wobbles', it's more as if the SAS doesn't have brains enough to know how to null out motion... a 1 second burst of RCS in this direction is cancelled by an equal 1 second burst of RCS in that (opposite) direction.

[Jouni]

I'll have to try the probe core/center-of-mass suggestion. I use plenty of struts during construction, no doubt about that. It's not that my ship 'wobbles', it's more as if the SAS doesn't have brains enough to know how to null out motion... a 1 second burst of RCS in this direction is cancelled by an equal 1 second burst of RCS in that (opposite) direction.

Every ship wobbles, unless it's just a single part. Large ships almost always wobble so much that quick stabilization is impossible.

SAS doesn't know that the entire rotation was caused by a 1 second RCS burst in one direction. It doesn't assume that it's possible to cancel the entire rotation by using RCS at full power for x physics frames on one axis, y physics frames on another axis, and z physics frames on third axis. It doesn't even assume that it could have access to unrealistically precise information on the rotation of the ship, but uses more realistic techniques instead.

[panzer1b]

Just setup a hotkey to enable/disable the reaction wheels in the hotkey menu, and toggle em on/off depending on what ur doing.

I used to have this issue when i made a few rovers capable of self flipping themselves, the reaction wheels were just so powerful when not flipper upside down they tried to flip me 24/7, so i disable them when not flipped....

[xtoro]

SNIP

it's more as if the SAS doesn't have brains enough to know how to null out motion... a 1 second burst of RCS in this direction is cancelled by an equal 1 second burst of RCS in that (opposite) direction.

Yep, again that goes back to the pod at the end of the wobbly part. The SAS doesn't know what the entire ship is doing, it only knows what the pod/probe is doing and where it's pointing. So if the pod/probe is wobbling, it tries to stop it, but it's fighting the rest of the ship that's swinging around at a different interval. So when the pod thinks it's pointing where it's supposed to be, the RCS turns off. But the ship is still bowed at that point. So when the ship straightens out, it moves the lightest part: The pod. Now the pod isn't pointing where it wants to, so it tries to correct itself again, and the cycle repeats itself over and over.

[LordFerret]

Yep, again that goes back to the pod at the end of the wobbly part. The SAS doesn't know what the entire ship is doing, it only knows what the pod/probe is doing and where it's pointing. So if the pod/probe is wobbling, it tries to stop it, but it's fighting the rest of the ship that's swinging around at a different interval. So when the pod thinks it's pointing where it's supposed to be, the RCS turns off. But the ship is still bowed at that point. So when the ship straightens out, it moves the lightest part: The pod. Now the pod isn't pointing where it wants to, so it tries to correct itself again, and the cycle repeats itself over and over.

Yes, I guess that pretty much is the situation. My construction efforts, trying to be wise about strut usage, tends to yield me low wobble when maneuvering... so I guess it's up to me - my bad for attempting to rely on SAS for the job (?)!

Every ship wobbles, unless it's just a single part. Large ships almost always wobble so much that quick stabilization is impossible.

SAS doesn't know that the entire rotation was caused by a 1 second RCS burst in one direction. It doesn't assume that it's possible to cancel the entire rotation by using RCS at full power for x physics frames on one axis, y physics frames on another axis, and z physics frames on third axis. It doesn't even assume that it could have access to unrealistically precise information on the rotation of the ship, but uses more realistic techniques instead.

Thanks for passing that on (link), Jouni, it does explain and make more sense of the behavior of things. I think you've summed it up for me, as I stated above to xtoro; No quick stabilization. *sigh*

Thanks for the input.